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WWII Online: Battleground Europe

World War II Online 

General Discussion  » Might as well post it here

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65 posts found
  Silky303

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/10
Posts: 137

3/07/13 11:06:04 AM#21
Anfiach - you're suggesting the players bear no responsibility as regards balancing the sides? Yet you're also suggesting the dev team also should not intervene to promote balance 'under the bonnet'?

SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  pittpete

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/10
Posts: 243

3/07/13 11:49:55 AM#22

Silk, CRS should've did more to balance the game than just a horrible spawn delay,instead of farting around with RA.

So now we/they sit with a severely reduced population and the community is asked to support the game.

We're at 150 heroes now and still nothing is getting done as far as we know.

Xoom made a statement that even if we reach 300 heroes, it doesn't guarantee anything coding wise. 

  rendus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/08
Posts: 332

3/07/13 12:16:32 PM#23
Originally posted by pittpete

Xoom made a statement that even if we reach 300 heroes, it doesn't guarantee anything coding wise. 

So where will the the Hero money go?  If all it does is keep the game on it's feet, I guess that's good enough.  Disappointing, but understandable.

  Silky303

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/10
Posts: 137

3/07/13 3:44:12 PM#24
But pittpete, this community seems to be complaining that CRS has historically taken action to balance the game

So what is it?

Should they balance, should the players balance? Every answer seems to be no, so in assuming this community believes its right that the game operate with one side routinely dominating the other?

Please correct me if I'm misreading

SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  david06

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 183

 
OP  3/07/13 4:05:53 PM#25


Originally posted by rendus
So where will the the Hero money go?  If all it does is keep the game on it's feet, I guess that's good enough.  Disappointing, but understandable.

I'm still having trouble seeing why their requirements are so high, especially since they are down to only a few people. There are a lot of game projects out there that would kill for 150 subcribers paying $30 a month...I just noticed that they pulled the banner/stick about hero builders from the top of their forums.


Originally posted by Silky303
But pittpete, this community seems to be complaining that CRS has historically taken action to balance the gameSo what is it?Should they balance, should the players balance? Every answer seems to be no, so in assuming this community believes its right that the game operate with one side routinely dominating the other?Please correct me if I'm misreading

I'm complaining that the company says they don't, and then they delete/ban any mention of it. So it's dishonest.


Anyway just about all the communities that were "unbalancing" the game have left so if this strategy was working then things should be fine.

  Stug

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 399

3/07/13 4:19:21 PM#26
Originally posted by david06

 


Originally posted by rendus
So where will the the Hero money go?  If all it does is keep the game on it's feet, I guess that's good enough.  Disappointing, but understandable.

 

I'm still having trouble seeing why their requirements are so high, especially since they are down to only a few people. There are a lot of game projects out there that would kill for 150 subcribers paying $30 a month...I just noticed that they pulled the banner/stick about hero builders from the top of their forums.

 


Originally posted by Silky303
But pittpete, this community seems to be complaining that CRS has historically taken action to balance the gameSo what is it?Should they balance, should the players balance? Every answer seems to be no, so in assuming this community believes its right that the game operate with one side routinely dominating the other?Please correct me if I'm misreading

 

I'm complaining that the company says they don't, and then they delete/ban any mention of it. So it's dishonest.


Anyway just about all the communities that were "unbalancing" the game have left so if this strategy was working then things should be fine.

Ref the hero banner - don't panic just yet. I've noticed that sometimes it vanishes and then it comes back.

See if it comes back this time.

 

 

  Silky303

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/10
Posts: 137

3/07/13 4:47:12 PM#27
I think it's pretty evident under the bonnet tweaks are made in the name of balance

I do wish there was a little more transparency about the mechanic and supply set ups

SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  User Deleted
3/07/13 5:31:24 PM#28
Originally posted by pittpete

Silk, CRS should've did more to balance the game than just a horrible spawn delay,instead of farting around with RA.

So now we/they sit with a severely reduced population and the community is asked to support the game.

We're at 150 heroes now and still nothing is getting done as far as we know.

Xoom made a statement that even if we reach 300 heroes, it doesn't guarantee anything coding wise. 

The only thing happening right now is the server is up and running,that's it. And that's all that will be happening. The sooner people start grasping, accepting that logic, the sooner the back and forth with false cheerleading will stop.

  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

3/07/13 6:07:41 PM#29
Originally posted by Hodo
Originally posted by anfiach`

Back to blaming the community for the failings of the game.

Its not the communities fault the failings of the game.   You just made the choice to read that into my statement.   It is very much on the shoulders of CRS.

That wasn't aimed at you Hodo.

  pittpete

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/10
Posts: 243

3/07/13 6:45:10 PM#30

Silk, you don't have to type out my name every time

Whole squads were forced to leave because of the SD.

Squads like KGW and 3PZG, took their $$$$ and left.

Why should it have to fall on the community  to balance the population when the company "had" the means to do something about it?

Should KGW have told all their members to stop playing to balance the sides or force them to play allied?

Maybe if CRS had offered new players a reduced sub to play Allied things could've turned out difference.

This isn't a free game, we pay a sub and should have a choice because we pay the companies salaries.

It's all water under the bridge now any way so no use arguing about the past.

 

  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

3/07/13 6:49:07 PM#31
Originally posted by Silky303
Anfiach - you're suggesting the players bear no responsibility as regards balancing the sides? Yet you're also suggesting the dev team also should not intervene to promote balance 'under the bonnet'?

My suggestion is that the game is not balanced. This is a design flaw. You're blaming the players for it. You don't entice people to play with unique equipment and then tell them they shouldn't be doing the very thing that brought them to subscribe. " I know this is the reason you play the game, but you really shouldn't be doing that because not enough people like the other stuff". The answer is to unsub, not play for the other side. It isn't like Battlefield 3 where it doesn't matter to people which side they play on.

It isn't only equipment either. Each side has its own culture that appeals to different people. You're asking people to endure behavior that they simply find unacceptable. If I was forced to read Axis side chat day after day I'd go mad. Others cannot tolerate Allied. It won't happen, the answer is to unsub.

Your solution is for people to endure a game experience other than what they are paying for and in the end, the only happy people are going to be CRS as they collect the profits, well, we tried that already and now the game is what it is and not even CRS is happy.  I always find that HC members promote the self balancing approach the most. Coincidentally they are largely immune to such suggestions as they are not allowed to switch sides. Always someone else that must sacrifice their enjoyment for the "good of the game".

I wouldn't say that players have zero responsibility here but people aren't going to pay to do things they do not enjoy. That's the whole of it. In the end, it is the responsibility of the developer to create an environment where players can enjoy the game, not the other way around. CRS has failed at this. Far more players have left because of the solutions than because of the problems. TZ3 the game failed to attract enough Allied players. The solution? Tell Axis players that they are bad people and to punish them. The result? Axis players unsub and the game is still not balanced. Red vs Blue, it wouldn't even be an issue.

Feel like you need to manipulate the game? Fine, but don't lie and say the game is player driven when in the end the devs decide if you are allowed to win or not.

  OtotheJ

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/12
Posts: 54

3/08/13 1:59:22 AM#32

With 150 player peak server numbers the game is as good as dead.   You cant possibly be this bad at developement planning for years, to the point you cant even keep stats up much yet release new content, and expect this game and this dev crew to progress at this point.  Enjoy the complete pos the current product is while it last

Hopefully someday another game creator takes all the good aspects the game had and does it right.   Thats the only real future this game has in store for it. 

 

 

 

  Tontoman

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/07
Posts: 197

3/08/13 2:35:04 AM#33

Don't forget that players were encouraged to join squads, and squads are Axis or Allies. So either a squad has to switch, or you're asking someone to leave their squad for a while.  That way squads didn't help with balancing.

Best thing you can do is try and entice the folks who will switch, to switch, when it's unbalanced.  Maybe some mild spawn delays, points if there was some game buy system (for access to better weapons other than rank) etc.  Get some lone wolves to swap at least.  Bit of carrot and stick.

And keeping the gameplay good even if you're losing helps, stops the numbers getting even worse.  Making you spawn into the one AO battle where you're outnumbered 3-1, not so much.

  argel

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/05
Posts: 34

3/08/13 2:59:43 AM#34

The bitterness of some people is unreal.

 

Even though I stated in here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/34/view/forums/post/5599329#5599329 that I would support all of the things you guys want, I am not saying it because I think 'OMG CRS GOT IT WRONG THEY ARE CRAP AT DEVELOPING' as some people do at every opportunity. It just entrenches the position on both sides that the decision taken was the only reason the game has fallen so far, and makes CRS reluctant to go back.

What needs to happen is all of these embittered guys need to first of all realise that CRS has held it's path precisely because people like OtotheJ etc have this view that it is a black & white right & wrong style of decision that needs to be made. Clearly that is not the case and while some of the decisions haven't played out well, it's important to remember that to be fair to CRS they created a still-playable game that has a lot of very positive aspects.

What CRS need to focus on is getting that old hardcore squad mentality back. That may be difficult but it isn't impossible and the more people play, the more likely others are to come back. The first step is saying 'we made that decision in good faith, believing it was right, but it hasn't turned out how we wanted and so for that reason we need to get back to basics and give the balance of power back to squads by eliminating AO's and mitigating the effects of TOE's at the earliest available opportunity' - even if that doesn't come about for 6 months to a year, I think people would come back.

If they do that though, CRS shouldn't be vilified for the 'wrong' choice. Remember they didn't want to make the game worse or fail, they wanted to make it better and help it grow. You idiots sitting there with the 'I told you so' mentality just solidified CRS's position that to go back would be an admission that players are ALWAYS right and would open them up to criticism for every decision.

That's what the root of this is. Control. CRS have too much and didn't listen to key people, but that doesn't mean that either those people are always right or that CRS are always wrong. There's a middle ground based on community relations that was never fully explored, but when you read the pompous, self-aggrandizing posts of some people like Hodo, OtotheJ etc you can understand why they'd want to avoid giving them too much influence.

  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

3/08/13 6:08:57 AM#35
Originally posted by OtotheJ

With 150 player peak server numbers the game is as good as dead.   You cant possibly be this bad at developement planning for years, to the point you cant even keep stats up much yet release new content, and expect this game and this dev crew to progress at this point.  Enjoy the complete pos the current product is while it last

Hopefully someday another game creator takes all the good aspects the game had and does it right.   Thats the only real future this game has in store for it. 

 

 

 

Oddly enough despite having fewer players, Face of Mankind is still being developed, even to the point of having its core code rewritten.

  Silky303

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/10
Posts: 137

3/08/13 1:07:48 PM#36
Originally posted by anfiach`
Originally posted by Silky303
Anfiach - you're suggesting the players bear no responsibility as regards balancing the sides? Yet you're also suggesting the dev team also should not intervene to promote balance 'under the bonnet'?

My suggestion is that the game is not balanced. This is a design flaw. You're blaming the players for it. You don't entice people to play with unique equipment and then tell them they shouldn't be doing the very thing that brought them to subscribe. " I know this is the reason you play the game, but you really shouldn't be doing that because not enough people like the other stuff". The answer is to unsub, not play for the other side. It isn't like Battlefield 3 where it doesn't matter to people which side they play on.

It isn't only equipment either. Each side has its own culture that appeals to different people. You're asking people to endure behavior that they simply find unacceptable. If I was forced to read Axis side chat day after day I'd go mad. Others cannot tolerate Allied. It won't happen, the answer is to unsub.

Your solution is for people to endure a game experience other than what they are paying for and in the end, the only happy people are going to be CRS as they collect the profits, well, we tried that already and now the game is what it is and not even CRS is happy.  I always find that HC members promote the self balancing approach the most. Coincidentally they are largely immune to such suggestions as they are not allowed to switch sides. Always someone else that must sacrifice their enjoyment for the "good of the game".

I wouldn't say that players have zero responsibility here but people aren't going to pay to do things they do not enjoy. That's the whole of it. In the end, it is the responsibility of the developer to create an environment where players can enjoy the game, not the other way around. CRS has failed at this. Far more players have left because of the solutions than because of the problems. TZ3 the game failed to attract enough Allied players. The solution? Tell Axis players that they are bad people and to punish them. The result? Axis players unsub and the game is still not balanced. Red vs Blue, it wouldn't even be an issue.

Feel like you need to manipulate the game? Fine, but don't lie and say the game is player driven when in the end the devs decide if you are allowed to win or not.

Wouldn't disagree about transparency

SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  david06

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 183

 
OP  3/08/13 4:23:02 PM#37


Originally posted by argel
The bitterness of some people is unreal.

 
Even though I stated in here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/34/view/forums/post/5599329#5599329 that I would support all of the things you guys want, I am not saying it because I think 'OMG CRS GOT IT WRONG THEY ARE CRAP AT DEVELOPING' as some people do at every opportunity. It just entrenches the position on both sides that the decision taken was the only reason the game has fallen so far, and makes CRS reluctant to go back.

<snip>


What you said is very similar to this article by Gophur last May. People were excited. Even a lot of the critics were optimistic. Right after that there was no update, only this "life or death of the company" campaign push to get people to donate to Rapid Assault.


The overwhelming majority of the critics are unsubscribed and are no longer following the game's progress(or lack thereof). I do not think that they have prevented CRS from going back on their development decisions. Much more likely are the players who have spent months or years under the current system and don't want it to be changed, and the echo chamber they create on the forums. Just look at who comes out and defends HC/TO&E every time after the latest failure. So in addition to not understanding basic game design CRS has been very selective about which opinions they consider. Their fault.


I don't need to start another recruiting drive, and the game doesn't have any new features to sell even If I felt like it. I can go play ArmA2(or the 3 alpha) right now with a great group of people. We can do what we want and won't encounter crazy game-breaking bugs. Or I can go play ww2online, have some small boring bug-ridden skirmish, sit around and hope the guys I used play with come back to the game.


So there's no persistent server? Big deal. There isn't one in ww2online. There are no player statistics and campaigns are ultimately decided by CRS. The game might as well be a series of instanced battles now.

  Stug

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 399

3/08/13 5:18:22 PM#38
Sounds like you need to join a new squad David. Again blaming CRS for the wrong decisions. Why are they wrong? What where the reasons they actually made the decisions?

Your still saying what Argel said....
  Tontoman

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/07
Posts: 197

3/08/13 6:21:54 PM#39
Originally posted by Stug
Sounds like you need to join a new squad David. Again blaming CRS for the wrong decisions. Why are they wrong? What where the reasons they actually made the decisions?

Your still saying what Argel said....

Read the last few pages of the good game mechanics discussion in 'why WWIIOL is dead' for your answers.  What they attempted to do, what happened, and why from the people who left.

 

  Hrica

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/31/05
Posts: 1137

"Yesterday is history, Tomorrow a mystery, and today is a gift"

3/08/13 6:30:27 PM#40

Dude your in my squad....

 

1st Jageurs

 

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