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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Is F2P Working for SWTOR?

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134 posts found
  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4154

Trolls will be ignored

3/19/13 10:56:22 AM#101
Originally posted by Souldrainer

 

 

I'm not really pro-SWTOR in too many ways.  I like certain parts of the game.  I just don't like the SWG comparasins, and I'd rather see the game be more like Star Wars than SWG.  Now, the real kicker here is, I hate certain aspects of SWTOR.  I hate the RNG aspects.  I hate the lackluster implementation of HK droids.  I hate that you can't corrupt or redeem certain companions.  I hate the MVP voting system for PVP (GW2 does it better IMO).  I also hate how massive the game is, honestly.  If you're going to make a massive land mass, I think you should put somethign there.  I was simply pointing out that Makeb has a lot of potential. 

However, SWTOR gets a bad rap from a lot of people on MMORPG.com.  The SWG fanboys are especially annoying, with their crap.  They want bullshit like open space travel, player houses, and chat bubbles... and none of it really belongs in a Star Wars game.  I've been a SW fan since 1977, and I feel that if they are going to make changes, they need to lean towards Star Wars, not SWG.  Some will disagree with me, but I think SWG was a project that was 50% Everquest, 40% random ideas from SOE, and 10% Star Wars.  SWTOR is far from perfect.  In fact, certain parts of SWTOR are downright broken.  But IMO, it is way closer to the Star Wars IP than SWG ever was, by a factor of 5, maybe more.

So yeah.  I like SWTOR.  I love parts of it and I hate parts of it.  I hate SWG, and I love the Star Wars IP.

I wouldn't go so far as to say none of it belongs in a Star Wars game. Certainly with the phasing tech that is already being utilized in the game Bioware could make housing that doesn't ugly the landscape. For instance they could use any of the buildings on Coruscant as a phased instance that could be utilized by everyone. Same on Dromund Kaas. 

Far as making it more Star Wars, there is a wide difference of opinion on what "being" Star Wars means. The biggest gulf seems to be with those who enjoy the ENTIRE IP including the EU and those that think Star Wars is just Luke and Vader. For me, I've had my  fill of the OT. It's been done to death in every which way. Let's move on to new territory. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 2143

3/19/13 11:12:08 AM#102
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Souldrainer
People underestimate the potential of Makeb. Since Belsavis and Hoth are each individually larger than WoW, I'd say there is a chance that Makeb will be larger than EQ2 by itself. I'm not saying it's guaranteed. But let's stop comparibg unlaunched content until we know for sure. I mean, you can compare it as much as you want, but to me it makes you look extremely biased. Maybe the EQ2 one will be bigger, and maybe it won't. Going by dev descriptions is awful. One time a Blizzard described Pandari as "lot's of new stuff." Going by the logic above, that's only one bullet point... making it the smallest expansion in history. OR--- Bullet points mean nothing in terms of the amount of content.

Makeb is going to be smaller because it was meant to be just an update, it costs $10 instead of $40 or $60, and if it was going to be a BIG expansion then EA would not hesitate to charg $40 or $60 for it. The fact you have to pay anything for it is a turn off for a start, considering it was meant to be FREE and in game by the end of 2012. People who have been following what EA/BW have been doing and saying with SWTOR will less likely buy the Makeb expansion unless like being screwed over, only the fans of SWTOR will buy this expansion. There is no reason for anyone who likes EQ2 not to buy the expansion for EQ2 if people want it as it all happened at a reasonable level - was not going to be an ordinary update and be free and was released fast.

Agree fully on this. I'm far from happy about this expansion but as fan for sure have purchased. :-) But I would prefer waiting maybe another year and get really decent expansion for ful price. But still happy this way.

  Pongo_

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/08/06
Posts: 36

3/19/13 12:32:49 PM#103
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Pongo_
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Pongo_
Originally posted by Souldrainer
 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not really pro-SWTOR in too many ways.  I like certain parts of the game.  I just don't like the SWG comparasins, and I'd rather see the game be more like Star Wars than SWG.  Now, the real kicker here is, I hate certain aspects of SWTOR.  I hate the RNG aspects.  I hate the lackluster implementation of HK droids.  I hate that you can't corrupt or redeem certain companions.  I hate the MVP voting system for PVP (GW2 does it better IMO).  I also hate how massive the game is, honestly.  If you're going to make a massive land mass, I think you should put somethign there.  I was simply pointing out that Makeb has a lot of potential. 

However, SWTOR gets a bad rap from a lot of people on MMORPG.com.  The SWG fanboys are especially annoying, with their crap.  They want bullshit like open space travel, player houses, and chat bubbles... and none of it really belongs in a Star Wars game.  I've been a SW fan since 1977, and I feel that if they are going to make changes, they need to lean towards Star Wars, not SWG.  Some will disagree with me, but I think SWG was a project that was 50% Everquest, 40% random ideas from SOE, and 10% Star Wars.  SWTOR is far from perfect.  In fact, certain parts of SWTOR are downright broken.  But IMO, it is way closer to the Star Wars IP than SWG ever was, by a factor of 5, maybe more.

So yeah.  I like SWTOR.  I love parts of it and I hate parts of it.  I hate SWG, and I love the Star Wars IP.

And yet you have no concrete examples of how to make SWTOR more like "Star Wars." What's your brilliant idea? Fast movement through the frame? Wipes for scene transition? People like you, who have this anemic view of the game world, got what they deserved in SWTOR.

SWG attempted to address the massive implied sense of wonder in the Star Wars universe by using a realistic art style, by putting in a large amount of interaction with the world, and by using the original setting (Not the half-baked ancient time setting that is really only suitable for backstory).

SWG is also a real example to be utilized, so while I also hate those comparisons (because the stupid SWTOR game is not suitable to be compared to SWG), thats the frame of reference that people have. If you take the time to think about it, you'll probably realize that you are unhappy with the features of SWTOR that are limiting rather than allowing you multiple choices. The other star wars MMO gave you tons of choices.

see i have been a star wars fan since '77 as well.  it was the first movie i saw in a theater.  now i loved SWG as well, but i wasn't gonna bring it into the conversation because it has been done to death.  now that you opened that can of worms, i will say this.

it's the lack of such "bullshit" that makes SWTOR so unappealing to alot of people.   as a star wars fan i felt more wonder, alive, and connected to my character, than i did in galaxies.  in SWTOR it's not my story.  it belongs to a class. everyone who plays that class has the exact same story.  regardless of "choice", everyone ends up at the same spot.

i want to live star wars, which i did in galaxies.  in SWTOR i just played star wars.

this is just my opinion.  so as my choice i quit SWTOR.  i just wish i had a galaxy to go back to.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1984

3/19/13 2:36:34 PM#104

^^^^^

Agree. In a nutshell what (I believe) you are saying is that SWTOR is more of a game and less of an mmo. In an mmo you expect greater choice and diversity making it more likely that "your character" is unique (fueling the cookie cutter debate etc.) And in this regard time played is a factor which is why "more content" is important. 

Also what makes Skyrim special - a game with more content then many mmos. 

  ksternal

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/12
Posts: 81

3/19/13 6:52:40 PM#105
Techically the game isn't a full blown F2P like Star Trek Online is. SWTOR is a B2P game and with that no its not working as well as the devs hoped it to be.
  Freakboy546

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 41

3/19/13 7:19:32 PM#106
I don't have to much to complain about with this game. I just started playing and my character progression seems pretty fluid. Since I just completed the first double xp weekend my view of character progression of its probably skewed. I can't really complain that my character is not "unique" because in what game is our character "unique". What separates this game from the pack is there are no darn elves and plenty of stuff to accomplish. I liked anarchy online but it seemed like you were left with nothing to do. Eve online was great but it takes an eternity to accomplish anything. So for the price of nothing I think this game gives me allot of game to play. And I'll definitely be subbing as soon as I can.
  Souldrainer

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/06
Posts: 1878

3/19/13 7:57:12 PM#107
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Pongo_
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Pongo_
Originally posted by Souldrainer
 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not really pro-SWTOR in too many ways.  I like certain parts of the game.  I just don't like the SWG comparasins, and I'd rather see the game be more like Star Wars than SWG.  Now, the real kicker here is, I hate certain aspects of SWTOR.  I hate the RNG aspects.  I hate the lackluster implementation of HK droids.  I hate that you can't corrupt or redeem certain companions.  I hate the MVP voting system for PVP (GW2 does it better IMO).  I also hate how massive the game is, honestly.  If you're going to make a massive land mass, I think you should put somethign there.  I was simply pointing out that Makeb has a lot of potential. 

However, SWTOR gets a bad rap from a lot of people on MMORPG.com.  The SWG fanboys are especially annoying, with their crap.  They want bullshit like open space travel, player houses, and chat bubbles... and none of it really belongs in a Star Wars game.  I've been a SW fan since 1977, and I feel that if they are going to make changes, they need to lean towards Star Wars, not SWG.  Some will disagree with me, but I think SWG was a project that was 50% Everquest, 40% random ideas from SOE, and 10% Star Wars.  SWTOR is far from perfect.  In fact, certain parts of SWTOR are downright broken.  But IMO, it is way closer to the Star Wars IP than SWG ever was, by a factor of 5, maybe more.

So yeah.  I like SWTOR.  I love parts of it and I hate parts of it.  I hate SWG, and I love the Star Wars IP.

And yet you have no concrete examples of how to make SWTOR more like "Star Wars." What's your brilliant idea? Fast movement through the frame? Wipes for scene transition? People like you, who have this anemic view of the game world, got what they deserved in SWTOR.

SWG attempted to address the massive implied sense of wonder in the Star Wars universe by using a realistic art style, by putting in a large amount of interaction with the world, and by using the original setting (Not the half-baked ancient time setting that is really only suitable for backstory).

SWG is also a real example to be utilized, so while I also hate those comparisons (because the stupid SWTOR game is not suitable to be compared to SWG), thats the frame of reference that people have. If you take the time to think about it, you'll probably realize that you are unhappy with the features of SWTOR that are limiting rather than allowing you multiple choices. The other star wars MMO gave you tons of choices.

I have no concrete examples of my personal opinion?  And here, I was sure the international journal of science published my opinion as fact in 1983, and 2005.  I can't find the links though.  JK.  As stated in the post you're quoting, numerous times, it is my opinion. 

Several people bring up "sense of wonder."  I really never had a sense of wonder about Star Wars.  George Lucas didn't paint a picture of an expansive world to me.  He simply showed that war and struggles would be the same for people in outer space as they are on our world.  In my opinion, the whole "sense of wonder" thing is found in Sci Fi stories like Firefly, Star Trek, and Mass Effect.  Star Wars, by contrast is about action, adventure, character interactions, and story.  This, to me, is why I say SWTOR has more Star Wars than SWG had.

Now, let me be clear.  SWG had more Sci Fi and more MMO features.  But like I said before, Star Wars never struck me as Sci Fi, and MMOs have never struck me as a good genre for Star Wars.  SWTOR has lots of flaws, and some of the design decisions by both SOE and Bioware have been really nonsensical from a player's point of view.  And while Makeb does have more potential than some people seem to think, I think Bioware is wise not to reveal everything, because less hype means less of a let down. 

For example, if they hypothetically told you that "Makeb had 300 hours of content" and the average spacebar player ended up finishing in 80 hours, the players would be let down.  A lot of players don't care if it costs $10 or $100.  They just want a lot of high quality content with few flaws.

Back to the actual whether-or-not of SWTOR being successful as an F2P game, I still stick by everything I first said.  If it wasn't profitable, they wouldn't be making Makeb.  EA might hang on for a quarter or two if the game wasn't profitable.  They would not hang on for nearly two years, just throwing money away and adding more content.  No sir, they would not.

Error: 37. Signature not found. Please connect to my server for signature access.

  simplius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 1056

3/19/13 10:47:53 PM#108

makeb was in the pipe before launch,,not using it would just waste more resources

by releasing it (and charging), they recover some of the losses

same goes for the rest of the game,,everyday it is up and running, theyre recovering some of the spent

resources,,closing it will only lock the loss at a certain amount

in fact , it is worse , if they do make a profit

because , then theyre charging for makeb out of pure GREED,,,not of NEED

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

3/19/13 11:12:54 PM#109
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Pongo_
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Pongo_
Originally posted by Souldrainer
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no concrete examples of my personal opinion?  And here, I was sure the international journal of science published my opinion as fact in 1983, and 2005.  I can't find the links though.  JK.  As stated in the post you're quoting, numerous times, it is my opinion. 

Several people bring up "sense of wonder."  I really never had a sense of wonder about Star Wars.  George Lucas didn't paint a picture of an expansive world to me.  He simply showed that war and struggles would be the same for people in outer space as they are on our world.  In my opinion, the whole "sense of wonder" thing is found in Sci Fi stories like Firefly, Star Trek, and Mass Effect.  Star Wars, by contrast is about action, adventure, character interactions, and story.  This, to me, is why I say SWTOR has more Star Wars than SWG had.

Now, let me be clear.  SWG had more Sci Fi and more MMO features.  But like I said before, Star Wars never struck me as Sci Fi, and MMOs have never struck me as a good genre for Star Wars.  SWTOR has lots of flaws, and some of the design decisions by both SOE and Bioware have been really nonsensical from a player's point of view.  And while Makeb does have more potential than some people seem to think, I think Bioware is wise not to reveal everything, because less hype means less of a let down. 

For example, if they hypothetically told you that "Makeb had 300 hours of content" and the average spacebar player ended up finishing in 80 hours, the players would be let down.  A lot of players don't care if it costs $10 or $100.  They just want a lot of high quality content with few flaws.

Back to the actual whether-or-not of SWTOR being successful as an F2P game, I still stick by everything I first said.  If it wasn't profitable, they wouldn't be making Makeb.  EA might hang on for a quarter or two if the game wasn't profitable.  They would not hang on for nearly two years, just throwing money away and adding more content.  No sir, they would not.

I said concrete examples, not scientifically proven examples.

I'm scratching my head over the fact that you are a big SW fan but you never experienced immersion in the setting.

The rest of your explanation seems to be about the profitability of SWTOR. Let's say it is 100% living up to expectations of the sales dept. at Bioware. It's still a super shit game that not only didn't improve on it's predecessor, but is not even a serviceable product for MMO players.

I appreciate your reply though.  

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4154

Trolls will be ignored

3/20/13 8:40:54 AM#110

There's fans and then there's Super fans. The fan is someone that enjoys a movie like Star Wars for its pure entertainment value and nothing more. It's just a movie to them.The Super Fan is one who not only loves Star Wars, but wants to live in it.  Big difference. 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Freakboy546

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 41

3/20/13 9:50:41 AM#111
So I just found out you can buy all the unlocks on the gtn. I really have nothing to complain about now. But that means pretty much the entire game can be played for free with no restrictions. I don't know how that works out for ea.
  superniceguy

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2290

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

3/20/13 9:56:23 AM#112
Originally posted by Freakboy546
So I just found out you can buy all the unlocks on the gtn. I really have nothing to complain about now. But that means pretty much the entire game can be played for free with no restrictions. I don't know how that works out for ea.

Other players have to buy it first, so EA does not miss out at all

Another player buys from the CM, then you buy it from them from the GTN. The only person who may lose out is the other player if no one buys it from the GTN or they get bored of the game, and has no use for the credits

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/20/13 7:11:14 PM#113
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Freakboy546
So I just found out you can buy all the unlocks on the gtn. I really have nothing to complain about now. But that means pretty much the entire game can be played for free with no restrictions. I don't know how that works out for ea.

Other players have to buy it first, so EA does not miss out at all

Another player buys from the CM, then you buy it from them from the GTN. The only person who may lose out is the other player if no one buys it from the GTN or they get bored of the game, and has no use for the credits

Which brings up another interesting area .. at some point, even the whales who buy packs to resell for credits will realize that having 100 million credits is no different than having 200 million, or more.

 

EA has many waves of upcoming gambling packs (via dev blog post last month).  At some point I imagine they will become more scarce on the GTN.  Still available there, sure .. but not in any large quantities.

 

Just my prediction anyways.  .. let me throw this out there .. EA's counter to future low CM sales?  add a new Real Money Organization rep with all new exclusive "content"! (/puke).

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Sevenstar61

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1694

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

3/20/13 8:12:11 PM#114
Originally posted by ktanner3

There's fans and then there's Super fans. The fan is someone that enjoys a movie like Star Wars for its pure entertainment value and nothing more. It's just a movie to them.The Super Fan is one who not only loves Star Wars, but wants to live in it.  Big difference. 

 

Sigh... ok I qualify as Super Fan then :)

PS. As long as Thrawn still lives in this Universe /grin


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  Freakboy546

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 41

3/20/13 9:34:16 PM#115
I don't think the only ones who buy unlocks are those who just collect credits by selling them on gtn. I'm sure plenty of players just want a 50k surge to buy something else they need on gtn. It kinds works out to me. I can make good credits buying and selling on the gtn while others who don't want to spend time doing that sell me the unlocks.
  simplius

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 1056

3/21/13 1:10:12 AM#116

im surprised , that theres no thread about riccitello on swtor forum

or do they simply delete them , as they pop?

i would love to hear andryahs spin on this one

PS try not to mention earth &beyond, she gets mad if you do

  Panzerbase

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 456

3/21/13 1:14:00 AM#117
I gave it another shot in the so called FTP model, and I removed it from my SSD the following day. The biggest turn off was asking myself why I had to figure out how to use a cash shop to play a game, I just couldn't get over it and beyond that the game felt the same. 
  BadOrb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 792

3/21/13 5:13:54 PM#118
Originally posted by simplius

im surprised , that theres no thread about riccitello on swtor forum

or do they simply delete them , as they pop?

i would love to hear andryahs spin on this one

PS try not to mention earth &beyond, she gets mad if you do

There was two threads not sure if they have been deleted or not search is your friend though. Why is everyone obsessed with Andryah ?

So OT , 2 mil new accounts created since F2P was released , can't be too bad.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

3/21/13 5:54:51 PM#119
Originally posted by BadOrb
Originally posted by simplius

im surprised , that theres no thread about riccitello on swtor forum

or do they simply delete them , as they pop?

i would love to hear andryahs spin on this one

PS try not to mention earth &beyond, she gets mad if you do

There was two threads not sure if they have been deleted or not search is your friend though. Why is everyone obsessed with Andryah ?

So OT , 2 mil new accounts created since F2P was released , can't be too bad.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

2 mil new accounts =/= 2 mil new people playing.

 

I have 2 accounts.  1 off and on sub account, 1 free.  Some subscribers also create a new account just to see what the restrictions would be like if they opt to go unsubscribed or preferred.  Many accounts can be created by 1 person.

 

Then there are those who have many accounts to possibly circumvent freemium account restrictions.  Creating a new account would also be a way to bypass infractions / bans.  How many of those new accounts have been closed for hacks?

 

While 2 million sounds impressive, it's the % of those new accounts who are active and the % who pay, along with the % who convert to subscribers.  My guess is that those numbers are not very impressive, hence they are withheld.

 

Perfect World had hit 50 million accounts in 2011.  But they didn't have 50 million players.

 

--

And Andryah brightens everyones day with a hearty laugh.  Whats not to love?

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  BadOrb

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 792

3/21/13 6:16:16 PM#120
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by BadOrb
Originally posted by simplius

im surprised , that theres no thread about riccitello on swtor forum

or do they simply delete them , as they pop?

i would love to hear andryahs spin on this one

PS try not to mention earth &beyond, she gets mad if you do

There was two threads not sure if they have been deleted or not search is your friend though. Why is everyone obsessed with Andryah ?

So OT , 2 mil new accounts created since F2P was released , can't be too bad.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

2 mil new accounts =/= 2 mil new people playing.

 

I have 2 accounts.  1 off and on sub account, 1 free.  Some subscribers also create a new account just to see what the restrictions would be like if they opt to go unsubscribed or preferred.  Many accounts can be created by 1 person.

 

Then there are those who have many accounts to possibly circumvent freemium account restrictions.  Creating a new account would also be a way to bypass infractions / bans.  How many of those new accounts have been closed for hacks?

 

While 2 million sounds impressive, it's the % of those new accounts who are active and the % who pay, along with the % who convert to subscribers.  My guess is that those numbers are not very impressive, hence they are withheld.

 

Perfect World had hit 50 million subscribers in 2011.  But they didn't have 50 million players.

 

--

And Andryah brightens everyones day with a hearty laugh.  Whats not to love?

You seriously think that 2.3 mil boxes / digital sold by Jan 2012 , who knows how many between then and F2P release and then 2 mil more. So a total of at least 4.3 million accounts or games sold. That doesn't impress you at all ? For a bashed / hated game for many reasons , I think it's pretty good really. At least it hasn't sunk.

I hope the new cartel rep system hasn't bittered the completionist in you. I used to be one on PSU and I was a hoarder of many nice items and it basically upset me too. I don't want any of the games community upset and i'm sorry they brought that system into the game. They are moving it though to a new part of the Ui , probably rename it , but I know that won't be enough. A real shame.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

 

PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]

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