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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Trouble with immersion?

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201 posts found
  User Deleted
3/01/13 11:32:09 AM#101
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was unaware that waypoints were part of the lore.  That makes sense.  I never said the game had a problem and I actually called it a feature and said it was pre-designed to be that way by the developers.

Though my original argument fell apart :-)  It still doesnt remove my original premise that I dont feel GW2 is immersive (enough) for me to engage in the game fulltime.   It still feels like an arcade.

This is not to take away the joy countless others are having. I hope it continues for them.  I will continue to see how this living story plays and if it introduces the 'touches' I am looking for (but seem to have a hard time explaining).

No problem, its not much of an explanation, but its there ;P

I just wonder at people that keep pushing buttons that break their immersion and then complain about it ;P Stop pushing them buttons if they irritate you so much, there, problem solved lol

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

3/01/13 11:33:38 AM#102
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Geobardi

Maybe it's not GW2's fault, maybe it's us, the players, who have matured and the sense of immersion and fascination we had with MMOs is harder to obtain with every new game that is released...

Thats what this whole discussion points to.

the whole "immersion breaking" argument from using optonal stuff is invalid.

If you are offered option A and B, A breakes youe immersion and B doesnt, but you costantly choose A and then proceed to whine about how "A is immersion breaking"....i mean it tells more about player than the game.

This argument that if quick travel breaks your immersion, don't use it is not entirely true. That would be a fair point if there were mounts in the game. But if I don't use quick travel my only option is to walk. In WoW I could get a mount which sped things up. But then again when people suggest that ArenaNet introduce mounts, people say what's the point? The question is why not? It will give people who don't want to use quick travel an alternative.

But but but....the longer it takes its more immersive! Why would you want to speed things up? By claims here you shouldnt even run but walk everywhere. Mounts break immersion! Running breakes immersion because its not realistic that you can run all the time! And then you need to rest, i mean walking across half the world and then just jump in in the battle? You need couple days rest at least! Want me to go further ;P

Oh, and BTW, most of games had some sort of quick travel, even those *gasp* often cited here, its not like WoW invented quick travel (or LOTRO or "insert MMO here") Just in LOTRO (for instance): hunter "taxi", captain summon, guardians acorn, swift horses, return to capital city, binding stones. At launch.

And WoW was one of the least immersive games i had tried. I couldnt even make it to max level how bad it was immersion wise. Static world, nothing ever changes, bad humor, fed-ex meaningless quests, gigantic shoulderpads...

Your completely missing the point. Length of time <> immersion, but travel is a big part.  There is no travel in GW2.  You either walk (which gets old fast) or you waypoint.  There are no vehicles.  No airships. No mounts.  No nothing.  Part of what works in WoW and EQ is if I have to go a far distance I can still enjoy the landscape just at a faster speed which is more realistic.  I would love to be able to fly through Tyria but I can't at the moment.

Portals also work but its the implementation.  Portals in WoW and EQ are part of the game and lore.  EQ had Plane of Knowledge.  Does exactly the same as waypoints but its part of the game making it feel more like your character is travelling via magic means versus me as a player.   In GW2 I click an object on my map which ports my character... thats a player mechanic and does nothing to tie to the players' action to what the character is doing (other than appearing in a new location).  

I dont see this as a 'bug' or problem with GW2 but more as a feature.  GW2 is more geared toward an 'arcade' RPG experience as opposed to a fully immersive 'lived-in world'   These decisions were pre-made and we cant honestly fault them for that.

I'm still interested where they go with this 'living story' (which btw I think is a great concept) but think they will take it far enough for me personally to enjoy it.

 

I think you are the one missing the point.

You rarely travel in GW2 because zones are packed with content, they are never useless.

I travel if: I want to play with a friend, i want to go do a dungeon, I'm working on my personal story., i want to go to the other side of the world.

By the way waypoints are asura magic constructs just like the asura gates.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  User Deleted
3/01/13 11:35:53 AM#103
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

I think you are the one missing the point.

You rarely travel in GW2 because zones are packed with content, they are never useless.

I travel if: I want to play with a friend, i want to go do a dungeon, I'm working on my personal story., i want to go to the other side of the world.

 

Yah, i always get stuck in a zone because even 10th time im going through i find stuffs i missed :)

Dont even use waypoints that much.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/01/13 11:44:13 AM#104
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

I think you are the one missing the point.

You rarely travel in GW2 because zones are packed with content, they are never useless.

I travel if: I want to play with a friend, i want to go do a dungeon, I'm working on my personal story., i want to go to the other side of the world.

 

Yah, i always get stuck in a zone because even 10th time im going through i find stuffs i missed :)

Dont even use waypoints that much.

yea same:) just another quick example of an early DE and on how i find this game immersive compared to others.. in wayferer foothills theres a small lodge you come accross. Outside is a bunch of kids having a snowball fight which you can join in on to complete the heart.. Near the entrance is a boy and if you talk to him he will tell you about going off to do a hunt which you agree to help him.. you walk off with him and kill a veteran deer and you can follow him as he brings the head back to his dad and the dad talks to him about taking him out hunting next time. Now right after that you usually can hear a conversation coming from inside the lodge with a group of kids talking about doing a honey ritual to summon a bear. They spread honey all over the place which ends up causing a stampede of bears to rush the lounge. You have to fend of the beers to complete the DE.

This sort of thing happens all over the place an higher you get in zones the larger they get with more going on as you get more into the warzone type zones.. either way just this and how the npcs interact and you can actually follow them around and see where they go and where they start instead of just dissapearing into thin air all the time like most other games.. all these things really make gw2 such an immersive pve experience for me.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

3/01/13 12:35:03 PM#105

The zones are far from claustrofobic and shoeboxed.

 

 

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Baitness

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/22/06
Posts: 154

3/01/13 12:40:46 PM#106

OP, I love GW2 but have the same issue as you.  I think it comes down to the non-seamless world for me, when I walk into a town and there is a loading screen I feel that town as a seperate area and not as a part of the game world (which, in fact, is the case).  I also just can't bring myself to believe that the entire game world is split up into these box shaped valleys between mountains.

 

That being said, I still love the game.  It really is just a shame the world feels so artificial as a whole, because if you only look closely at small parts of each area it feels very detailed and alive.

 

Edit:  I also think instant travel is a detriment to MMOs (and flying mounts but hopefully that doesn't happen).  When people are forced to move through the world to get around, you see more people, it feels more real.  I try to stick to not using waypoints myself, but it still feels odd to not see more travellers.

 

Edit2:  If I had to decide between an open world or having the detail currently present, I would pick the latter.  I just wish we could have both.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

3/01/13 12:44:45 PM#107

Anyone with issues over waypoints needs to ask themselves one simple question...

 

If we had them in real life, would you use them?  

 

Bet your left cheek I would.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/01/13 12:49:30 PM#108
Originally posted by Volkon

Anyone with issues over waypoints needs to ask themselves one simple question...

 

If we had them in real life, would you use them?  

 

Bet your left cheek I would.

yea or at least a tube system like futurama!

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2565

3/01/13 12:57:39 PM#109
Originally posted by Volkon

Anyone with issues over waypoints needs to ask themselves one simple question...

 

If we had them in real life, would you use them?  

 

Bet your left cheek I would.

We do have lodsing screens in RL - airplanes, trains, cars, etc can all be considered loading screens.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1128

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

3/01/13 1:06:36 PM#110
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by Geobardi

Maybe it's not GW2's fault, maybe it's us, the players, who have matured and the sense of immersion and fascination we had with MMOs is harder to obtain with every new game that is released...

Thats what this whole discussion points to.

the whole "immersion breaking" argument from using optonal stuff is invalid.

If you are offered option A and B, A breakes youe immersion and B doesnt, but you costantly choose A and then proceed to whine about how "A is immersion breaking"....i mean it tells more about player than the game.

This argument that if quick travel breaks your immersion, don't use it is not entirely true. That would be a fair point if there were mounts in the game. But if I don't use quick travel my only option is to walk. In WoW I could get a mount which sped things up. But then again when people suggest that ArenaNet introduce mounts, people say what's the point? The question is why not? It will give people who don't want to use quick travel an alternative.

But but but....the longer it takes its more immersive! Why would you want to speed things up? By claims here you shouldnt even run but walk everywhere. Mounts break immersion! Running breakes immersion because its not realistic that you can run all the time! And then you need to rest, i mean walking across half the world and then just jump in in the battle? You need couple days rest at least! Want me to go further ;P

Oh, and BTW, most of games had some sort of quick travel, even those *gasp* often cited here, its not like WoW invented quick travel (or LOTRO or "insert MMO here") Just in LOTRO (for instance): hunter "taxi", captain summon, guardians acorn, swift horses, return to capital city, binding stones. At launch.

And WoW was one of the least immersive games i had tried. I couldnt even make it to max level how bad it was immersion wise. Static world, nothing ever changes, bad humor, fed-ex meaningless quests, gigantic shoulderpads...

Your completely missing the point. Length of time <> immersion, but travel is a big part.  There is no travel in GW2.  You either walk (which gets old fast) or you waypoint.  There are no vehicles.  No airships. No mounts.  No nothing.  Part of what works in WoW and EQ is if I have to go a far distance I can still enjoy the landscape just at a faster speed which is more realistic.  I would love to be able to fly through Tyria but I can't at the moment.

Portals also work but its the implementation.  Portals in WoW and EQ are part of the game and lore.  EQ had Plane of Knowledge.  Does exactly the same as waypoints but its part of the game making it feel more like your character is travelling via magic means versus me as a player.   In GW2 I click an object on my map which ports my character... thats a player mechanic and does nothing to tie to the players' action to what the character is doing (other than appearing in a new location).  

I dont see this as a 'bug' or problem with GW2 but more as a feature.  GW2 is more geared toward an 'arcade' RPG experience as opposed to a fully immersive 'lived-in world'   These decisions were pre-made and we cant honestly fault them for that.

I'm still interested where they go with this 'living story' (which btw I think is a great concept) but think they will take it far enough for me personally to enjoy it.

 

I think you are the one missing the point.

You rarely travel in GW2 because zones are packed with content, they are never useless.

I travel if: I want to play with a friend, i want to go do a dungeon, I'm working on my personal story., i want to go to the other side of the world.

By the way waypoints are asura magic constructs just like the asura gates.

I missed the fact that waypoints are a part of the asuran lore.   But travel is actually up to playstyle.  I 'waypoint' all the time as a convenience to go back and craft as I like to craft as I adventure.  I'm saying it would be nice if I had a flying mount and could *enjoy* the travel back to where I was going.  Instead of pressing a button and seeing a flash screen.  Its minor but important to me.

We agreed that was not what ANet developed.  I just disagree with it.

The world is great just wish there were more options to travel through it.   It would have been cool to have a bunch of players on an Airship or other construct travelling together, taking in the sights.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1660

3/01/13 1:09:24 PM#111
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Your completely missing the point. Length of time <> immersion, but travel is a big part.  There is no travel in GW2.  You either walk (which gets old fast) or you waypoint.  There are no vehicles.  No airships. No mounts.  No nothing.  Part of what works in WoW and EQ is if I have to go a far distance I can still enjoy the landscape just at a faster speed which is more realistic.  I would love to be able to fly through Tyria but I can't at the moment.

Portals also work but its the implementation.  Portals in WoW and EQ are part of the game and lore.  EQ had Plane of Knowledge.  Does exactly the same as waypoints but its part of the game making it feel more like your character is travelling via magic means versus me as a player.   In GW2 I click an object on my map which ports my character... thats a player mechanic and does nothing to tie to the players' action to what the character is doing (other than appearing in a new location).  

I dont see this as a 'bug' or problem with GW2 but more as a feature.  GW2 is more geared toward an 'arcade' RPG experience as opposed to a fully immersive 'lived-in world'   These decisions were pre-made and we cant honestly fault them for that.

I'm still interested where they go with this 'living story' (which btw I think is a great concept) but think they will take it far enough for me personally to enjoy it.

 

I think you're missing the point actually. GW1 introduced "map travel" as a part of the lore of the game. There's even a quest you get from the son of the women (he claims) who invented it. To remove map travel and Asura Gates (also featured in Eye of the North) would be to break immersion for the GW vets by stepping all over the lore of the game.

 

The real immersion is in the world itself. What other do the NPCs run over to you asking for help? What other games does the PvE content come to you whether you're ready for it or not?

 

EQ2 has npc's calling out to you or gesticulating to grab you attention is not a new concept they were in EQ2 at launch.

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

3/01/13 1:15:33 PM#112
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Your completely missing the point. Length of time <> immersion, but travel is a big part.  There is no travel in GW2.  You either walk (which gets old fast) or you waypoint.  There are no vehicles.  No airships. No mounts.  No nothing.  Part of what works in WoW and EQ is if I have to go a far distance I can still enjoy the landscape just at a faster speed which is more realistic.  I would love to be able to fly through Tyria but I can't at the moment.

Portals also work but its the implementation.  Portals in WoW and EQ are part of the game and lore.  EQ had Plane of Knowledge.  Does exactly the same as waypoints but its part of the game making it feel more like your character is travelling via magic means versus me as a player.   In GW2 I click an object on my map which ports my character... thats a player mechanic and does nothing to tie to the players' action to what the character is doing (other than appearing in a new location).  

I dont see this as a 'bug' or problem with GW2 but more as a feature.  GW2 is more geared toward an 'arcade' RPG experience as opposed to a fully immersive 'lived-in world'   These decisions were pre-made and we cant honestly fault them for that.

I'm still interested where they go with this 'living story' (which btw I think is a great concept) but think they will take it far enough for me personally to enjoy it.

 

I think you're missing the point actually. GW1 introduced "map travel" as a part of the lore of the game. There's even a quest you get from the son of the women (he claims) who invented it. To remove map travel and Asura Gates (also featured in Eye of the North) would be to break immersion for the GW vets by stepping all over the lore of the game.

 

The real immersion is in the world itself. What other do the NPCs run over to you asking for help? What other games does the PvE content come to you whether you're ready for it or not?

 

EQ2 has npc's calling out to you or gesticulating to grab you attention is not a new concept they were in EQ2 at launch.

Really? Never knew that. I wonder... are they doing that in reaction to your presence or simply doing that in a loop whether or not players are present. There is a difference.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/01/13 1:18:51 PM#113
Originally posted by Volkon

 

EQ2 has npc's calling out to you or gesticulating to grab you attention is not a new concept they were in EQ2 at launch.

Really? Never knew that. I wonder... are they doing that in reaction to your presence or simply doing that in a loop whether or not players are present. There is a difference.

i think they did it whenever people were in proximity.. it was a nice feature and really enjoyed that in eq2 i remember.. glad gw2 has it much more widespread though

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Zekiah

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 2541

Hype (noun)
1. to trick; gull.
2. exaggerated publicity; hoopla.
3. swindle, deception, or trick.

3/01/13 1:19:24 PM#114

The game has several of immersion-breakers. Instant travel and repeating quests every ten minutes with the same outcome are two that I find most noticeable.

Oh and, ignoring dead NPCs because if you res them they'll be dead again in a few minutes anyway. That one makes me laugh lol.

"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1128

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

3/01/13 1:19:31 PM#115
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was unaware that waypoints were part of the lore.  That makes sense.  I never said the game had a problem and I actually called it a feature and said it was pre-designed to be that way by the developers.

Though my original argument fell apart :-)  It still doesnt remove my original premise that I dont feel GW2 is immersive (enough) for me to engage in the game fulltime.   It still feels like an arcade.

This is not to take away the joy countless others are having. I hope it continues for them.  I will continue to see how this living story plays and if it introduces the 'touches' I am looking for (but seem to have a hard time explaining).

No problem, its not much of an explanation, but its there ;P

I just wonder at people that keep pushing buttons that break their immersion and then complain about it ;P Stop pushing them buttons if they irritate you so much, there, problem solved lol

I guess its the option of additional means of travel.  Just having walking and waypoint are extremes. I say mounts because thats what Im used but in reality it could be anything that would speed it up.    Some mechanism to let me move through the world at an elevated and greater pace than walking but less 'instant' than waypoint.   Have you ever played EQ2 and got on a boat (with other characters mind you) and just sailed off.  Watching to see the coast to appear in the horizon. Its a lot different than just 'porting' to the destination (lored based or not).  Sometimes the journey *is* the destination.

Getting off topic from the OP in some ways, and want to re-iterate that GW2 does lack immersion (for some, not all or others) and could be alleviated by changing travel options (just one suggestion).  But again, as I've said this isn't that type of game and thats what I have to concede to.

Though dated, check out Vanguard (or videos of it).  If we remove the gear-grind argument for a moment it demonstrates how travel can aid in immersion of the world.  Its not as pretty as GW2 but is a stark contrast.   The former is a slower more involved MMO (encouraging immersion of you being the character) and the latter is a faster more 'instant action' (to me encourages me as a player playing a character).  There is a difference between the two experiences though they sound similiar.

But they dont seem to (have interest to) make games like that anymore... 

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

3/01/13 1:23:04 PM#116
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was unaware that waypoints were part of the lore.  That makes sense.  I never said the game had a problem and I actually called it a feature and said it was pre-designed to be that way by the developers.

Though my original argument fell apart :-)  It still doesnt remove my original premise that I dont feel GW2 is immersive (enough) for me to engage in the game fulltime.   It still feels like an arcade.

This is not to take away the joy countless others are having. I hope it continues for them.  I will continue to see how this living story plays and if it introduces the 'touches' I am looking for (but seem to have a hard time explaining).

No problem, its not much of an explanation, but its there ;P

I just wonder at people that keep pushing buttons that break their immersion and then complain about it ;P Stop pushing them buttons if they irritate you so much, there, problem solved lol

I guess its the option of additional means of travel.  Just having walking and waypoint are extremes. I say mounts because thats what Im used but in reality it could be anything that would speed it up.    Some mechanism to let me move through the world at an elevated and greater pace than walking but less 'instant' than waypoint.   Have you ever played EQ2 and got on a boat (with other characters mind you) and just sailed off.  Watching to see the coast to appear in the horizon. Its a lot different than just 'porting' to the destination (lored based or not).  Sometimes the journey *is* the destination.

Getting off topic from the OP in some ways, and want to re-iterate that GW2 does lack immersion (for some, not all or others) and could be alleviated by changing travel options (just one suggestion).  But again, as I've said this isn't that type of game and thats what I have to concede to.

Though dated, check out Vanguard (or videos of it).  If we remove the gear-grind argument for a moment it demonstrates how travel can aid in immersion of the world.  Its not as pretty as GW2 but is a stark contrast.   The former is a slower more involved MMO (encouraging immersion of you being the character) and the latter is a faster more 'instant action' (to me encourages me as a player playing a character).  There is a difference between the two experiences though they sound similiar.

But they dont seem to (have interest to) make games like that anymore... 

really is all preference.. for me vanguard had vast landscapes which were nice and made the world feel huge but honestly there is a TON of empty and waisted space you just end up traveling over which doesn't really do much but make the world feel large.. But again it's all preference in what you see and what immersion is to the individual

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1128

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

3/01/13 1:25:24 PM#117
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was unaware that waypoints were part of the lore.  That makes sense.  I never said the game had a problem and I actually called it a feature and said it was pre-designed to be that way by the developers.

Though my original argument fell apart :-)  It still doesnt remove my original premise that I dont feel GW2 is immersive (enough) for me to engage in the game fulltime.   It still feels like an arcade.

This is not to take away the joy countless others are having. I hope it continues for them.  I will continue to see how this living story plays and if it introduces the 'touches' I am looking for (but seem to have a hard time explaining).

No problem, its not much of an explanation, but its there ;P

I just wonder at people that keep pushing buttons that break their immersion and then complain about it ;P Stop pushing them buttons if they irritate you so much, there, problem solved lol

I guess its the option of additional means of travel.  Just having walking and waypoint are extremes. I say mounts because thats what Im used but in reality it could be anything that would speed it up.    Some mechanism to let me move through the world at an elevated and greater pace than walking but less 'instant' than waypoint.   Have you ever played EQ2 and got on a boat (with other characters mind you) and just sailed off.  Watching to see the coast to appear in the horizon. Its a lot different than just 'porting' to the destination (lored based or not).  Sometimes the journey *is* the destination.

Getting off topic from the OP in some ways, and want to re-iterate that GW2 does lack immersion (for some, not all or others) and could be alleviated by changing travel options (just one suggestion).  But again, as I've said this isn't that type of game and thats what I have to concede to.

Though dated, check out Vanguard (or videos of it).  If we remove the gear-grind argument for a moment it demonstrates how travel can aid in immersion of the world.  Its not as pretty as GW2 but is a stark contrast.   The former is a slower more involved MMO (encouraging immersion of you being the character) and the latter is a faster more 'instant action' (to me encourages me as a player playing a character).  There is a difference between the two experiences though they sound similiar.

But they dont seem to (have interest to) make games like that anymore... 

really is all preference.. for me vanguard had vast landscapes which were nice and made the world feel huge but honestly there is a TON of empty and waisted space you just end up traveling over which doesn't really do much but make the world feel large.. But again it's all preference in what you see and what immersion is to the individual

I will agree with you there.  

I want a mix of I guess some of the mechanics from Vanguard with the (beautiful) world of Tyria.  That would make a very rich experience for me.  

The game is still young and it costs me nothing to check in form time to time.  I will eventually get my human warrior to 80 at some point.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1660

3/01/13 1:25:49 PM#118
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Your completely missing the point. Length of time <> immersion, but travel is a big part.  There is no travel in GW2.  You either walk (which gets old fast) or you waypoint.  There are no vehicles.  No airships. No mounts.  No nothing.  Part of what works in WoW and EQ is if I have to go a far distance I can still enjoy the landscape just at a faster speed which is more realistic.  I would love to be able to fly through Tyria but I can't at the moment.

Portals also work but its the implementation.  Portals in WoW and EQ are part of the game and lore.  EQ had Plane of Knowledge.  Does exactly the same as waypoints but its part of the game making it feel more like your character is travelling via magic means versus me as a player.   In GW2 I click an object on my map which ports my character... thats a player mechanic and does nothing to tie to the players' action to what the character is doing (other than appearing in a new location).  

I dont see this as a 'bug' or problem with GW2 but more as a feature.  GW2 is more geared toward an 'arcade' RPG experience as opposed to a fully immersive 'lived-in world'   These decisions were pre-made and we cant honestly fault them for that.

I'm still interested where they go with this 'living story' (which btw I think is a great concept) but think they will take it far enough for me personally to enjoy it.

 

I think you're missing the point actually. GW1 introduced "map travel" as a part of the lore of the game. There's even a quest you get from the son of the women (he claims) who invented it. To remove map travel and Asura Gates (also featured in Eye of the North) would be to break immersion for the GW vets by stepping all over the lore of the game.

 

The real immersion is in the world itself. What other do the NPCs run over to you asking for help? What other games does the PvE content come to you whether you're ready for it or not?

 

EQ2 has npc's calling out to you or gesticulating to grab you attention is not a new concept they were in EQ2 at launch.

Really? Never knew that. I wonder... are they doing that in reaction to your presence or simply doing that in a loop whether or not players are present. There is a difference.

 

Remeber this is from 2004 when EQ2 had no markers (quils in this case) above npc's heads. So when you went near certain NPC's they would call out to you saying they wanted to talk with you or they would wave their hands gesticualting for you to come over, you just had to set the animation of by being near to them or walking past them, it wasn't a set routine that cycled. Since SOE put quest markers in and redesigned many areas of the game ie Freeport and the starter zones those occasions are quait rare these days. So its not a new concept far from it, OH! and EQ2 has Heritage quests that take you all over a zone in one big quest chain that ends in a big battle, they are group only and intergral to telling a story of the lore of that zone, sound familiar?

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Calerxes

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 1660

3/01/13 1:39:15 PM#119
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by darkhalf357x
Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Thanks for clearing that up.  I was unaware that waypoints were part of the lore.  That makes sense.  I never said the game had a problem and I actually called it a feature and said it was pre-designed to be that way by the developers.

Though my original argument fell apart :-)  It still doesnt remove my original premise that I dont feel GW2 is immersive (enough) for me to engage in the game fulltime.   It still feels like an arcade.

This is not to take away the joy countless others are having. I hope it continues for them.  I will continue to see how this living story plays and if it introduces the 'touches' I am looking for (but seem to have a hard time explaining).

No problem, its not much of an explanation, but its there ;P

I just wonder at people that keep pushing buttons that break their immersion and then complain about it ;P Stop pushing them buttons if they irritate you so much, there, problem solved lol

I guess its the option of additional means of travel.  Just having walking and waypoint are extremes. I say mounts because thats what Im used but in reality it could be anything that would speed it up.    Some mechanism to let me move through the world at an elevated and greater pace than walking but less 'instant' than waypoint.   Have you ever played EQ2 and got on a boat (with other characters mind you) and just sailed off.  Watching to see the coast to appear in the horizon. Its a lot different than just 'porting' to the destination (lored based or not).  Sometimes the journey *is* the destination.

Getting off topic from the OP in some ways, and want to re-iterate that GW2 does lack immersion (for some, not all or others) and could be alleviated by changing travel options (just one suggestion).  But again, as I've said this isn't that type of game and thats what I have to concede to.

Though dated, check out Vanguard (or videos of it).  If we remove the gear-grind argument for a moment it demonstrates how travel can aid in immersion of the world.  Its not as pretty as GW2 but is a stark contrast.   The former is a slower more involved MMO (encouraging immersion of you being the character) and the latter is a faster more 'instant action' (to me encourages me as a player playing a character).  There is a difference between the two experiences though they sound similiar.

But they dont seem to (have interest to) make games like that anymore... 

really is all preference.. for me vanguard had vast landscapes which were nice and made the world feel huge but honestly there is a TON of empty and waisted space you just end up traveling over which doesn't really do much but make the world feel large.. But again it's all preference in what you see and what immersion is to the individual

 

Two reasons for this.

1: The game was not finished at launch and many areas were left empty and half a continent, Kojan, did not make it into the game.

2: Vanguard was designed with there being no expac's sold after release, they would just fill up the quiet areas and change areas over time and you'd get that for your monthly sub. So there were empty dungeons and such, the world would change and grow organically over time, sound familiar?

This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2677

3/01/13 2:33:52 PM#120
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Calerxes
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Your completely missing the point. Length of time <> immersion, but travel is a big part.  There is no travel in GW2.  You either walk (which gets old fast) or you waypoint.  There are no vehicles.  No airships. No mounts.  No nothing.  Part of what works in WoW and EQ is if I have to go a far distance I can still enjoy the landscape just at a faster speed which is more realistic.  I would love to be able to fly through Tyria but I can't at the moment.

Portals also work but its the implementation.  Portals in WoW and EQ are part of the game and lore.  EQ had Plane of Knowledge.  Does exactly the same as waypoints but its part of the game making it feel more like your character is travelling via magic means versus me as a player.   In GW2 I click an object on my map which ports my character... thats a player mechanic and does nothing to tie to the players' action to what the character is doing (other than appearing in a new location).  

I dont see this as a 'bug' or problem with GW2 but more as a feature.  GW2 is more geared toward an 'arcade' RPG experience as opposed to a fully immersive 'lived-in world'   These decisions were pre-made and we cant honestly fault them for that.

I'm still interested where they go with this 'living story' (which btw I think is a great concept) but think they will take it far enough for me personally to enjoy it.

 

I think you're missing the point actually. GW1 introduced "map travel" as a part of the lore of the game. There's even a quest you get from the son of the women (he claims) who invented it. To remove map travel and Asura Gates (also featured in Eye of the North) would be to break immersion for the GW vets by stepping all over the lore of the game.

 

The real immersion is in the world itself. What other do the NPCs run over to you asking for help? What other games does the PvE content come to you whether you're ready for it or not?

 

EQ2 has npc's calling out to you or gesticulating to grab you attention is not a new concept they were in EQ2 at launch.

Really? Never knew that. I wonder... are they doing that in reaction to your presence or simply doing that in a loop whether or not players are present. There is a difference.

 

Remeber this is from 2004 when EQ2 had no markers (quils in this case) above npc's heads. So when you went near certain NPC's they would call out to you saying they wanted to talk with you or they would wave their hands gesticualting for you to come over, you just had to set the animation of by being near to them or walking past them, it wasn't a set routine that cycled. Since SOE put quest markers in and redesigned many areas of the game ie Freeport and the starter zones those occasions are quait rare these days. So its not a new concept far from it, OH! and EQ2 has Heritage quests that take you all over a zone in one big quest chain that ends in a big battle, they are group only and intergral to telling a story of the lore of that zone, sound familiar?

Lets not start on the feature checklist path.

Sure many of the features of GW2 have been seen in other games.

But we don't play fractioned features, we play games with their features and systems.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

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