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  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

3/05/13 10:23:08 AM#241
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

(((eye roll))) BTW you do look better in green lol. As for hating, everyone here on the ESO forums knows you are here to do nothing but hate on the game, so your view point is very thin by most reading here. As for knowing nothing. I was talking about PvP map being heavly instanced. We know very little in that area. My guess is the PvP map will be one persistent area as they have stated the map tech they have can support about 2000 players. You or anyone else calling that heavely instanced is being a nutter. 1 Map, 1 war, no shards of that war, so not heavely instanced. If you dont get thats not heavely instanced then you need to understand MMO core mechanics better and no one can help you but you. I suggest you spend less time hating on ESO and go look for a game you would enjoy =-) If ESO does end up sharding the PvP map into instances, then thats the point I will walk away and have nothing to do with this game but you want see me here hating on it. I have better things to do with my time lol

Not hating. They have several bad design concepts that are uneccessary. Everything else I have no problem with really. They faction locked races and they faction locked exploration. Get rid of those 2 design points and I would happily put of with the rest of things. But those 2 things are huge. They will put me off playing and spending money on the game.

just because I don't agree with you and think the game has problems doesn't mean I hate it. If I hated the game I wouldn't comment at all.

What is a campaign then? Answer that and then perhaps we can move the conversation forward...

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

No, they will have to Q to get in.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3702

3/05/13 10:24:43 AM#242
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

(((eye roll))) BTW you do look better in green lol. As for hating, everyone here on the ESO forums knows you are here to do nothing but hate on the game, so your view point is very thin by most reading here. As for knowing nothing. I was talking about PvP map being heavly instanced. We know very little in that area. My guess is the PvP map will be one persistent area as they have stated the map tech they have can support about 2000 players. You or anyone else calling that heavely instanced is being a nutter. 1 Map, 1 war, no shards of that war, so not heavely instanced. If you dont get thats not heavely instanced then you need to understand MMO core mechanics better and no one can help you but you. I suggest you spend less time hating on ESO and go look for a game you would enjoy =-) If ESO does end up sharding the PvP map into instances, then thats the point I will walk away and have nothing to do with this game but you want see me here hating on it. I have better things to do with my time lol

Not hating. They have several bad design concepts that are uneccessary. Everything else I have no problem with really. They faction locked races and they faction locked exploration. Get rid of those 2 design points and I would happily put of with the rest of things. But those 2 things are huge. They will put me off playing and spending money on the game.

just because I don't agree with you and think the game has problems doesn't mean I hate it. If I hated the game I wouldn't comment at all.

What is a campaign then? Answer that and then perhaps we can move the conversation forward...

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

They are going to likely be put into a queue.

for a game that focuses on 3 faction PVP that would be an epic fail, which is why they are using the 'mega server' method, to avoid that happening. 

 "Epic fail" in an RvR game would be playing in a random new RvR instance that dissapears after prime time. That's scenario PVP not RvR.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

3/05/13 10:25:45 AM#243
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

(((eye roll))) BTW you do look better in green lol. As for hating, everyone here on the ESO forums knows you are here to do nothing but hate on the game, so your view point is very thin by most reading here. As for knowing nothing. I was talking about PvP map being heavly instanced. We know very little in that area. My guess is the PvP map will be one persistent area as they have stated the map tech they have can support about 2000 players. You or anyone else calling that heavely instanced is being a nutter. 1 Map, 1 war, no shards of that war, so not heavely instanced. If you dont get thats not heavely instanced then you need to understand MMO core mechanics better and no one can help you but you. I suggest you spend less time hating on ESO and go look for a game you would enjoy =-) If ESO does end up sharding the PvP map into instances, then thats the point I will walk away and have nothing to do with this game but you want see me here hating on it. I have better things to do with my time lol

Not hating. They have several bad design concepts that are uneccessary. Everything else I have no problem with really. They faction locked races and they faction locked exploration. Get rid of those 2 design points and I would happily put of with the rest of things. But those 2 things are huge. They will put me off playing and spending money on the game.

just because I don't agree with you and think the game has problems doesn't mean I hate it. If I hated the game I wouldn't comment at all.

What is a campaign then? Answer that and then perhaps we can move the conversation forward...

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

They are going to likely be put into a queue.

for a game that focuses on 3 faction PVP that would be an epic fail, which is why they are using the 'mega server' method, to avoid that happening. 

Assuming the red part above is true, and also assuming that queue's to enter faction PvP is fail, you are correct. 

 

However, I am failing to see what megaservers have to do with anything if the red part above is true.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5030

3/05/13 10:25:48 AM#244
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

(((eye roll))) BTW you do look better in green lol. As for hating, everyone here on the ESO forums knows you are here to do nothing but hate on the game, so your view point is very thin by most reading here. As for knowing nothing. I was talking about PvP map being heavly instanced. We know very little in that area. My guess is the PvP map will be one persistent area as they have stated the map tech they have can support about 2000 players. You or anyone else calling that heavely instanced is being a nutter. 1 Map, 1 war, no shards of that war, so not heavely instanced. If you dont get thats not heavely instanced then you need to understand MMO core mechanics better and no one can help you but you. I suggest you spend less time hating on ESO and go look for a game you would enjoy =-) If ESO does end up sharding the PvP map into instances, then thats the point I will walk away and have nothing to do with this game but you want see me here hating on it. I have better things to do with my time lol

Not hating. They have several bad design concepts that are uneccessary. Everything else I have no problem with really. They faction locked races and they faction locked exploration. Get rid of those 2 design points and I would happily put of with the rest of things. But those 2 things are huge. They will put me off playing and spending money on the game.

just because I don't agree with you and think the game has problems doesn't mean I hate it. If I hated the game I wouldn't comment at all.

What is a campaign then? Answer that and then perhaps we can move the conversation forward...

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

Not sure how that will work. I have wondered myself. I'm assuming that one of the main goals will be to balance the player numbers on the three sides of a campaign... and I seriously doubt that there will be anything like 33% in each one.

Does that mean that the overpopulated alliances will have a Q to get in and the least populated ones a shorter or no Q?

It's not a split-off the way you're thinking of it like say, the way TSW does it. You will be either in your own campaign or waiting in a Q for it if you want to RvR and it's full for your side. They won't create a new one on the fly just to accomodate those waiting.... I envison a lot of "these queues are ridiculous!" posts from the Ebonheart folks.

Or they could have each 'server' have a fluid amount of players on it, whether its pvp or pve, by using mega servers players are never left with low numbers on 'their' server, the only question really is how many each server can effectively support before needing to calve another server.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

3/05/13 10:27:38 AM#245
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Phry

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

They are going to likely be put into a queue.

for a game that focuses on 3 faction PVP that would be an epic fail, which is why they are using the 'mega server' method, to avoid that happening. 

No instances would be a fail. As how can you take over a map in one shard and in another shard that same side of the war is losing, how to you decide what side won? If they make instances of the same PvP shard they better have a really good way of dealing with it or people will quit this game faster then SWToR.

  Denambren

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/08
Posts: 295

3/05/13 10:28:00 AM#246

<play darth maul theme, add lightsaber sounds>

<flash screen with dramatic "The Elder Scrolls Online" title, end song on famous darth maul tune end>

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

3/05/13 10:29:56 AM#247
Originally posted by colddog04
They are going to likely be put into a queue.

Everyone loves a queue!

The way I see it, if they have a 2000 per campaign/instance/server then the real problem will be when peopel can't play in the same campaign. The megaserver was designed to get likeminded people together so that people who want similar playstyles are placed into the same instances. How will this link to the PvP setup? Who knows but I can think of problems with the current information.

The main issue I can forsee is that the PvE and PvP side of things are not linked. So you and a friend might head to Cyrodil side by side but due to being seperate systems and that campaigns have limited numbers, you get put into different campaigns. So there needs to be a mechanic to allow you to choose campaign similar to how you choose PvE instance.

The balance will be making sure people can change campaign easiy enough to play with friends but not too easy so that people server/instance/campaign swap. How they will do it is still unknown. Giving the game a seemless link between PvE and PvP is going to be tricky. You might play in the same campaign as Joe Bob but in the PvP world he is a Unsocial, guildess, loner type who hates roleplayers and is never likely to be in your guild called the social guild of grouing rp'ers. He would simply dissapear when you PvE.

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

3/05/13 10:31:59 AM#248
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
No instances would be a fail. As how can you take over a map in one shard and in another shard that same side of the war is losing, how to you decide what side won? If they make instances of the same PvP shard they better have a really good way of dealing with it or people will quit this game faster then SWToR.

You're not starting to see the cracks are you???

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5030

3/05/13 10:34:17 AM#249
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Phry

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

They are going to likely be put into a queue.

for a game that focuses on 3 faction PVP that would be an epic fail, which is why they are using the 'mega server' method, to avoid that happening. 

No instances would be a fail. As how can you take over a map in one shard and in another shard that same side of the war is losing, how to you decide what side won? If they make instances of the same PvP shard they better have a really good way of dealing with it or people will quit this game faster then SWToR.

Its kind of unavoidable, there will have to be several versions of cyrodil for each pve server, if your wondering why, just look at GW2, which had a huge problem with overflow etc, and queues, and that was in a game that wasnt as heavily focused on PVP, although obviously GW2 PVP is a major part of the game, in ESO it is even more so. So it will be quite possible for people on the same pve server to be playing radically different pvp games

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

3/05/13 10:34:56 AM#250
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by colddog04
They are going to likely be put into a queue.

Everyone loves a queue!

The way I see it, if they have a 2000 per campaign/instance/server then the real problem will be when peopel can't play in the same campaign. The megaserver was designed to get likeminded people together so that people who want similar playstyles are placed into the same instances. How will this link to the PvP setup? Who knows but I can think of problems with the current information.

The main issue I can forsee is that the PvE and PvP side of things are not linked. So you and a friend might head to Cyrodil side by side but due to being seperate systems and that campaigns have limited numbers, you get put into different campaigns. So there needs to be a mechanic to allow you to choose campaign similar to how you choose PvE instance.

The balance will be making sure people can change campaign easiy enough to play with friends but not too easy so that people server/instance/campaign swap. How they will do it is still unknown. Giving the game a seemless link between PvE and PvP is going to be tricky. You might play in the same campaign as Joe Bob but in the PvP world he is a Unsocial, guildess, loner type who hates roleplayers and is never likely to be in your guild called the social guild of grouing rp'ers. He would simply dissapear when you PvE.

Doing that would be a fail and make the campaigns unbalanced as people would be switching them willy nilly. How they swap? All we know is the devs have told us, it wont be something done willy nilly. It will have an impact to try and change campaigns. If you can just jump around as you will, no one will take pride in the war they are in. 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3702

3/05/13 10:36:05 AM#251

Instead of idle speculation, you might want to have a look at the Tamriel Foundry section on Campaigns... complete with footnotes and links to the source of the info. They're currently the best TESO site for reliable info:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

 

Here's my understanding:

1. RvR campaigns are persistent "servers"...they will even have individual names

2. a particualr RvR campaign wil not "calve" instances of itself (Qs are an inevitable consequence)

3. You will not be able to easily change campaigns nor can you Q for several. This will be as big a deal as swapping servers in other games.

4. This is all the PVP there is. No scenarios or instances at least at launch.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

3/05/13 10:39:30 AM#252
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
No instances would be a fail. As how can you take over a map in one shard and in another shard that same side of the war is losing, how to you decide what side won? If they make instances of the same PvP shard they better have a really good way of dealing with it or people will quit this game faster then SWToR.

You're not starting to see the cracks are you???

No cracks. 1 War, 1 shard. Its smiple and has great potential to make PvP have depth and PvE will have a large enough pool of players to make getting a team with the right balance easy. This new server tech is something more MMOs need to jump on.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

3/05/13 10:47:38 AM#253
Originally posted by Iselin

Instead of idle speculation, you might want to have a look at the Tamriel Foundry section on Campaigns... complete with footnotes and links to the source of the info. They're currently the best TESO site for reliable info:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

 

Here's my understanding:

1. RvR campaigns are persistent "servers"...they will even have individual names

2. a particualr RvR campaign wil not "calve" instances of itself (Qs are an inevitable consequence)

3. You will not be able to easily change campaigns nor can you Q for several. This will be as big a deal as swapping servers in other games.

4. This is all the PVP there is. No scenarios or instances at least at launch.

Great info, thanks =-)

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

3/05/13 10:50:09 AM#254
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Phry
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by Phry

The best way to think of the RvR campaign you will be part of is as your server. Forget the megaserver technicalities: that is more a PVE thing. For RvR your campaign is your server.

Bingo!!!

Except for when player numbers reach a fixed amount and they are split off into another instance. er.. server

They are going to likely be put into a queue.

for a game that focuses on 3 faction PVP that would be an epic fail, which is why they are using the 'mega server' method, to avoid that happening. 

No instances would be a fail. As how can you take over a map in one shard and in another shard that same side of the war is losing, how to you decide what side won? If they make instances of the same PvP shard they better have a really good way of dealing with it or people will quit this game faster then SWToR.

Its kind of unavoidable, there will have to be several versions of cyrodil for each pve server, if your wondering why, just look at GW2, which had a huge problem with overflow etc, and queues, and that was in a game that wasnt as heavily focused on PVP, although obviously GW2 PVP is a major part of the game, in ESO it is even more so. So it will be quite possible for people on the same pve server to be playing radically different pvp games

No one can ever say that you don't enjoy giving the thumbs up.

 

More to the point, you aren't linking your logic together. I'm trying to understand what you're saying. I understood what Maelwydd was saying, who was actually confused about how they will mix what they are promising with what is possible. But you just go:

 

GW2 had queue problems -> TESO is more PvP centric than GW2 -> People on the same server in TESO will play different PvP games.  

 

I feel like everyone is missing some important facts before this argument should be happening.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15134

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/05/13 2:03:26 PM#255
Originally posted by colddog04

 

I feel like everyone is missing some important facts before this argument should be happening.

That never stopped anyone around here before..

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15134

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

3/05/13 2:04:04 PM#256
Originally posted by Iselin

Instead of idle speculation, you might want to have a look at the Tamriel Foundry section on Campaigns... complete with footnotes and links to the source of the info. They're currently the best TESO site for reliable info:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

 

Here's my understanding:

1. RvR campaigns are persistent "servers"...they will even have individual names

2. a particualr RvR campaign wil not "calve" instances of itself (Qs are an inevitable consequence)

3. You will not be able to easily change campaigns nor can you Q for several. This will be as big a deal as swapping servers in other games.

4. This is all the PVP there is. No scenarios or instances at least at launch.

Nice bit of info and thanks for that link.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

3/05/13 2:18:38 PM#257
Originally posted by Iselin

Instead of idle speculation, you might want to have a look at the Tamriel Foundry section on Campaigns... complete with footnotes and links to the source of the info. They're currently the best TESO site for reliable info:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

 

Here's my understanding:

1. RvR campaigns are persistent "servers"...they will even have individual names

2. a particualr RvR campaign wil not "calve" instances of itself (Qs are an inevitable consequence)

3. You will not be able to easily change campaigns nor can you Q for several. This will be as big a deal as swapping servers in other games.

4. This is all the PVP there is. No scenarios or instances at least at launch.

You see I don't see a problem if this all pans out for them to have campaigns that include exploring other faction lands with no PvP, with flagged PvP and with Open PvP. If they did that I wouldn't have a problem with their design. While it would be cumbersome and of course a fudge to get around their original restricted design it would at least provide each person the ability to Choose how they want to play. So if they can tailor the PvE side of things with their megaserver then with any luck, and persitant requests for it, they might be able to tailor the PvP campaigns as well.

  EvolvedMonky

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 562

3/05/13 2:28:47 PM#258

Just wanted to say UO was a good adaption from the Ultima rpgs I played.  The whole idea that  they couldnt make skyrim and previous ES games into a mmo is BS.  ESO should have always been PvE focused game and sandbox instead of themepark. Exploration, treasure hunting and politics should be the focus.  Not RvR

PvP does not equal two or more players bunny hoping around spaming buttons. PvP can also be two thief guilds competing over a pve event(like rob a manor), two warior guilds trying to win an arena match, etc... plus interactions between different guilds. Even add the Assasin guild(forgot the guilds name even though i always join em) and allow them to be the only guild that can PK outside pvp events and ofcourse hated by NPCs.

 

The only thing they should never do like a TES game is vampirism I hate there hunger logic so it would have to be based on a mods vampirism.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3360

3/05/13 2:53:53 PM#259
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Iselin

Instead of idle speculation, you might want to have a look at the Tamriel Foundry section on Campaigns... complete with footnotes and links to the source of the info. They're currently the best TESO site for reliable info:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/

 

Here's my understanding:

1. RvR campaigns are persistent "servers"...they will even have individual names

2. a particualr RvR campaign wil not "calve" instances of itself (Qs are an inevitable consequence)

3. You will not be able to easily change campaigns nor can you Q for several. This will be as big a deal as swapping servers in other games.

4. This is all the PVP there is. No scenarios or instances at least at launch.

You see I don't see a problem if this all pans out for them to have campaigns that include exploring other faction lands with no PvP, with flagged PvP and with Open PvP. If they did that I wouldn't have a problem with their design. While it would be cumbersome and of course a fudge to get around their original restricted design it would at least provide each person the ability to Choose how they want to play. So if they can tailor the PvE side of things with their megaserver then with any luck, and persitant requests for it, they might be able to tailor the PvP campaigns as well.

5 years of development where each factions area is designed with that faction in mind. Story with voice over, quests, dungeons and I am sure more. Why would we want to make the game shallow by making all the areas generic and for everyone? Its way cooler and imersive to play the areas as the developer has designed them to be seen. If I have to see another area I would rather see it as the faction that area was designed for, so an alt. 

You keep yelling for open world PvP and flagged PvP in the open world. Do you not get thats a broken system that PvEers hate. Pure PvEers like to have their own space to play the game and the current system gives them that but with the current system it also gives PvPers what they are looking for, faction pride, focused PvP!!! DAoC is the gold standard when it comes to this, why would we want 2nd or 3rd best option? So we have the freedom to play anywhere on one char? Its worth giving that all up for one thing? No thanks!!!!

  Maelwydd

Elite Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1064

3/05/13 3:01:54 PM#260
Originally posted by Nanfoodle

 

5 years of development where each factions area is designed with that faction in mind. Story with voice over, quests, dungeons and I am sure more. Why would we want to make the game shallow by making all the areas generic and for everyone? Its way cooler and imersive to play the areas as the developer has designed them to be seen. If I have to see another area I would rather see it as the faction that area was designed for, so an alt. 

You keep yelling for open world PvP and flagged PvP in the open world. Do you not get thats a broken system that PvEers hate. Pure PvEers like to have their own space to play the game and the current system gives them that but with the current system gives PvPers what they are looking for, faction pride, focused PvP!!! DAoC is the gold standard when it comes to this, why would we want 2nd or 3rd best option? So we have the freedom to play anywhere on one char? Its worth giving that all up for one thing? No thanks!!!!

I prefer PvE to PvP in an RPG. I want the option to explore. Why not allow it if it is possible? And why would it work any different then their megaserver idea? You say you are in RP and exploration you get putinto the same instances as other Rp'ers and explorers. You want OW PvP same applies. Flagged PvP just another instance....what is YOUR problem with allowing it now? You have your way I playing, i have mine, what is the problem?

 

Edit - And stop saying DAOC is the GOLD standard. It isn't popular anymore, wan't a great success on release and isn't the be all and end all of MMO design. Many example to proove that fact, stop using it as your default 'I have nothing else to justify my position' chant.

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