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News & Features Discussion  » [Interview] Trials of Ascension: The Unique World of TerVarus

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  Holyfleadip

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/15/10
Posts: 67

2/28/13 8:29:14 AM#101
Originally posted by Metentso

I wish i could put into words what is in my head. I will try.

Let's see... first of all, forget all you know about MMOs from 2002 to today. Just forget it. For a while.

Ok, now, lets go back to Everquest in year 2000.

Ok, now, lets go to a RED server in Everquest at that time. That was a PVP server where you could attack absolutely anyone, your faction, their faction, your race, NPCs, everyone.

Granted, it was not permadeath, but dying was really a pain in the ass.

Was there PKng, griefing, assholes, ruining your game time? Yes there was.

But there was something else, what we might call a "code". That code was, for many people, not to kill without a reason.

See an asshole is an asshole, even, a normal guy can be an asshole sometimes, i have been an asshole sometimes, but most of the time, normal people won't be assholes, or not all the time. These normal people, won't do anything to you that's too bad for no reason. This is built in our brains, we are not so bad deep down. Ask yourselves, are you going to gank a guy that is in his 99th life (ok, we migth not know it in the game, but imagine you can). Most of you won't, unless there is a good reason to.

I could tell you several experiences in EQ red serves where a powerful guy would not kill someone lower level, even in a heated discussion. That code, that respect for the other, prevented it. This is what happens when something "serious" (i know a game is not serious strictly speaking) might happen. See, what i mean is, you can't compare how people behave in a random modern MMO to how people will behave in ToA. The consequences are different, people behave differently.

Yes there will be the assholes that will have a lol out of killing people, just because it's important, but normal people will be able to protect against them. For instance. Have you tried to get people to help you when someone ganks and corpse camps you in WOW? It could be possible some years ago, but now normally nobody cares, unless you have really good friends. That's because the consequences, the damage done to you, it' not too big. But in ToA, the damage is big, people will react, because they will want to be helped too when they are in trouble.

This is what happened in EQ, it was based in the solidarity between players. You help me, i help you. This builds a community. Of course it wasn't only a selfish interest, it feels good to help someone that's really in need.

 

 

Not to put down your hopes in humanity, but that was 2000.  Most MMO players were young adults back then.   Little kids couldn't buy PCs and parents didn't want their kids playing with freak adults playing games.  PCs now cost next to nothing and are used as baby sittiers.  The little snots of today will be very happy to gank you for hours.  The community of the past will not exist.  They now have rotted their brains or no longer play.

  User Deleted
2/28/13 8:37:45 AM#102
Originally posted by Holyfleadip
Originally posted by Metentso

I wish i could put into words what is in my head. I will try.

Let's see... first of all, forget all you know about MMOs from 2002 to today. Just forget it. For a while.

Ok, now, lets go back to Everquest in year 2000.

Ok, now, lets go to a RED server in Everquest at that time. That was a PVP server where you could attack absolutely anyone, your faction, their faction, your race, NPCs, everyone.

Granted, it was not permadeath, but dying was really a pain in the ass.

Was there PKng, griefing, assholes, ruining your game time? Yes there was.

But there was something else, what we might call a "code". That code was, for many people, not to kill without a reason.

See an asshole is an asshole, even, a normal guy can be an asshole sometimes, i have been an asshole sometimes, but most of the time, normal people won't be assholes, or not all the time. These normal people, won't do anything to you that's too bad for no reason. This is built in our brains, we are not so bad deep down. Ask yourselves, are you going to gank a guy that is in his 99th life (ok, we migth not know it in the game, but imagine you can). Most of you won't, unless there is a good reason to.

I could tell you several experiences in EQ red serves where a powerful guy would not kill someone lower level, even in a heated discussion. That code, that respect for the other, prevented it. This is what happens when something "serious" (i know a game is not serious strictly speaking) might happen. See, what i mean is, you can't compare how people behave in a random modern MMO to how people will behave in ToA. The consequences are different, people behave differently.

Yes there will be the assholes that will have a lol out of killing people, just because it's important, but normal people will be able to protect against them. For instance. Have you tried to get people to help you when someone ganks and corpse camps you in WOW? It could be possible some years ago, but now normally nobody cares, unless you have really good friends. That's because the consequences, the damage done to you, it' not too big. But in ToA, the damage is big, people will react, because they will want to be helped too when they are in trouble.

This is what happened in EQ, it was based in the solidarity between players. You help me, i help you. This builds a community. Of course it wasn't only a selfish interest, it feels good to help someone that's really in need.

 

 

Not to put down your hopes in humanity, but that was 2000.  Most MMO players were young adults back then.   Little kids couldn't buy PCs and parents didn't want their kids playing with freak adults playing games.  PCs now cost next to nothing and are used as baby sittiers.  The little snots of today will be very happy to gank you for hours.  The community of the past will not exist.  They now have rotted their brains or no longer play.

If the game gets launched in it's current form trust me the little snots that gank for hours will actually only gank 2-3 people before they ilict a zerg of angry people led by those infinitely their greater (the ones they killed for no reason). This is how it works in EVE, you get ganked, you lose allot of stuff but you have that guy's name down now and in EVE vengence is a dish served best cold (my best friend in the game got betrayed by one of the guys he trusted when he first started the game and well... yeah that person's still rubbing oinment on his bruised.... ego after the kicking he got a few months back) and EVE has no perma death, throw in perma death and you have way, way more importance when it comes to deaths (people can get assassinated, vendettas can be established, etc).

 

The game will probably rock if it lives up to at least half its promises.

  xerax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/31/04
Posts: 57

2/28/13 9:01:29 AM#103

Consequences are good but I have yet to see a perma death system that works.  The idea that free / full loot PVP and perma death somehow  balance out and regulate themselves i think has now been proven to be a myth (salem and wizardry online).

I think this is probably because different people have more or less to loose, take this example:

Player A has 10-20 hours a week to play and has spent the last 10 weeks (100-200 hours) building and developing his toon.

Player B has 50 hours to play a week, he has his main farming toon which he uses to power level his PVP ganking ALT.

Result is player B doesn't care a hoot if he looses his PVP alt because he can make another with his farming alt very quickly, He will gank all he can for shits and giggles and there no real consequenes for him and nothing player A can do except to stop playing the game.

I can't see a situation in a perma death game where this would not be possible. Anything the developers do there is a work arround for:

No alts: -----? Multiple accounts

Limit of 1 account per IP address-----> Ip masking software/ 2nd computer

No PL possible (very hard to do. considering the lengths player will go to) ------> bank/crafter alts and twink your PVP alt to the max. Then level quicker.

Even in the real world consequences only work for certian people, typically your average joe.  Draconian penalties for crimes dont keep the jails empty!

A certain section of the community will always rise to a position where they can do what they want without consequences.

For this reason I can never see permadeath PVP working. permadeath PVE maybe.

 

 

 

 

  User Deleted
2/28/13 9:09:51 AM#104
Originally posted by xerax

Consequences are good but I have yet to see a perma death system that works.  The idea that free / full loot PVP and perma death somehow  balance out and regulate themselves i think has now been proven to be a myth (salem and wizardry online).

I think this is probably because different people have more or less to loose, take this example:

Player A has 10-20 hours a week to play and has spent the last 10 weeks (100-200 hours) building and developing his toon.

Player B has 50 hours to play a week, he has his main farming toon which he uses to power level his PVP ganking ALT.

Result is player B doesn't care a hoot if he looses his PVP alt because he can make another with his farming alt very quickly, He will gank all he can for shits and giggles and there no real consequenes for him and nothing player A can do except to stop playing the game.

I can't see a situation in a perma death game where this would not be possible. Anything the developers do there is a work arround for:

No alts: -----? Multiple accounts

Limit of 1 account per IP address-----> Ip masking software/ 2nd computer

No PL possible (very hard to do. considering the lengths player will go to) ------> bank/crafter alts and twink your PVP alt to the max. Then level quicker.

Even in the real world consequences only work for certian people, typically your average joe.  Draconian penalties for crimes dont keep the jails empty!

A certain section of the community will always rise to a position where they can do what they want without consequences.

For this reason I can never see permadeath PVP working. permadeath PVE maybe.

In EVE the solution is knowing thy enemy, if you know his alts you know how to hit him where it hurts him, in your example he ganks you, loses his PVP alt, creates a new one and starts outfitting it, now if clans/guilds/alliances/w/e have the tools to verify what alts you have (think EVE's API key system which you can tweak a key to show only your characters and which serious corps ask for when recruiting you to check your history) then that guy's support alt is a prime target for retribution because information about alts can be leaked by a spy planted in the guild and you know where to hit your target. As I said perma-death could work if the devs put in all the systems required to support it and a system similar to the API key system in EVE is a must.

  Tolroc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 95

2/28/13 9:16:18 AM#105

Normally I would automatically stay away from a perma-death game. Too many times I have died in a game because of real world distractions, not to mention just play dumb decisions or luck. However, I think the development team may be on to something with the 100 lives and then you're dead strategy. The players are forced to think about the consequences of their actions, and yet have some leeway in case of the occasional distraction, dumb decision, ganker, or technical issue.

 

  drbaltazar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7981

2/28/13 10:02:20 AM#106

This 100 time then you die is a good idea.any think this will evolve?like let's say you die permanently?this open a door that is closed presently!the world of dream for one!(the place where you start as a silvari!I can picture having to fight to either become allies with the foe faction or allies but in the spirit world.people might be like.wtf no color .yep to come back you have to fight your way back.I see a lot of potential with this idea.no PvP,no color,till you reached level 80 and did whatever was needed.why do this so hard?so that people really get the point of when they die 100 times it is a bitch to come back.I love this idea.we'll see their plan 

  User Deleted
2/28/13 10:24:40 AM#107
Originally posted by OmendiZ
Originally posted by Butch808
permadeath in any shape or form seperates the boys from the men. xD

100% agree with this statement lol.

No it only separates the boys that live in moms basement from people with real lives that have other priorities in life. 

Why is it you really think a Perma Death in a game separates you from a man who takes care of 2 kids, with a 3rd on the way, works 50+ hours a week and takes 2 classes vs someone who just works a job and has no life outside of a computer game? 

Also why is it that someone links a post to some 39 year old person that thinks that games shouldn’t change with the majority of the player base?  Yea games like this will be niche however if you are going for maybe 5000 to 50000 players in today’s MMO world how far do you think a business will make it?  Look at MO, it is a niche game that might have what 10,000 people in the game?  O and BTW I know few people that are older and have the point of view that games are more important than life.  They are divorced, consistently unemployed and don’t have 2 cent to their name.  Why?  Because they think a computer game is more important than real life. 

This game is for kids not for grown adults that real life priorities are more important than re-earning what they lost after they died for the 100th time.

  User Deleted
2/28/13 10:34:46 AM#108
Originally posted by danwest58

This game is for kids not for grown adults that real life priorities are more important than re-earning what they lost after they died for the 100th time.

Entitled much? The game will have this system, bitch moan and complain all you want you just look like those you're trying to lampoon.

 

Also while it has no perma-death EVE can arguably be far more brutal than ToA, how?

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/08/08/eve-player-destroys-over-1000-worth-of-game-time/

And that game has 500000+ subs so...  have fun in whatever games you like, stop moaning about those you don't unless they're destroying the ones you like's gameplay (ex: SWG NGE due to WoW's popularity).

  PsiKahn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 124

2/28/13 11:03:26 AM#109
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by OmendiZ
Originally posted by Butch808
permadeath in any shape or form seperates the boys from the men. xD

100% agree with this statement lol.

No it only separates the boys that live in moms basement from people with real lives that have other priorities in life. 

Why is it you really think a Perma Death in a game separates you from a man who takes care of 2 kids, with a 3rd on the way, works 50+ hours a week and takes 2 classes vs someone who just works a job and has no life outside of a computer game? 

Also why is it that someone links a post to some 39 year old person that thinks that games shouldn’t change with the majority of the player base?  Yea games like this will be niche however if you are going for maybe 5000 to 50000 players in today’s MMO world how far do you think a business will make it?  Look at MO, it is a niche game that might have what 10,000 people in the game?  O and BTW I know few people that are older and have the point of view that games are more important than life.  They are divorced, consistently unemployed and don’t have 2 cent to their name.  Why?  Because they think a computer game is more important than real life. 

This game is for kids not for grown adults that real life priorities are more important than re-earning what they lost after they died for the 100th time.

I wouldn't necessarily defend the statement that playing a game with PD makes you somehow "tougher" than other gamers, but I also don't see the correlation between a PD game and the amount of time required to play the game.  As with any game, most healthy people will strike an appropriate balance between time playing the game and their real-life relationships.  If anything, a PD design rewards players who play all the time LESS than a non-PD design.  Granted they will gain power more quickly, but they also WILL perma-die faster (in real-life time) and lose that power, whereas in many games the players who play the most will inevitably have the best skills/gear in perpetuity.  Everyone's playing with the same game rules, you are at no more of a competitive disadvantage to the kid who plays 12 hours a day than you are in any other game.

What's at issue here is whether the primary objective of the MMO player is to acquire stuff (skills, item wealth, etc.) or to play the game.  If you see the accumulation of things as the primary source of enjoyment in playing these games, then fairly a game like this may not be for you.  But if you're ultimately in it for the social relationships, the excitement, the unexpected, I think it's worth keeping an eye on it and not dismissing it out of hand.  Just about everyone on this forum wants see some new ideas in MMO design, and sometimes we'd do better to support innovation by giving things a chance to prove themselves despite some doubts, rather than cast them aside on principle.

EDIT: I think it's also worth noting that there's a common idea, and it's true in most games, that you HAVE to be max-level to be really playing the game due to end-game, etc.  From what I know of ToA, the designers deliberately DON'T want that to be the case.  It's designed for characters of all skill levels to be useful and relevant in their communities by squeezing the differnce in power between high and low skill some from what we're used to.

  drbaltazar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7981

2/28/13 11:18:07 AM#110
The only thing this does is bring hope for the potential of always a new group might be at the top.this doesn't cover balance,arena net hope is that this will balance itself.it won't.I met some people that werfre single and met 10 player head on and managed to down 7 before dying and then they would come back to life before you could finish them and kill the 3 left.
  llPhantom

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/13
Posts: 1

2/28/13 11:32:01 AM#111

About the Perma-death and people against it. This seems to be the most discussed.

People who think that Perma-Death is a setback, a time waste, or anything negative, all are spoiled by the games nowadays. They gave no risk to playing. Saying that only griefers benefit from this, is not true. Griefers do not benefit from the risk themselves. They never know what level someone is, how strong he is. They always have their own risk of losing everything.

And they need equipment. How would they get that? It's not like there are NPC's selling them unlimited. ToA has 2 types of NPC's. Merchants and Guards. What the merchants sell is player controlled. Which means, they only sell things other players gave them. The amount of items are limited. And when you buy something and die, you lost it. Either craft it yourself, or buy from someone. Of course, if you're known as a griefer, or an a***hole it would be hard to buy from someone. Have fun getting the needed ingredients.

Another thing is when a griefer do decide to attack someone. What if the Griefer is, lets say, a swordsman(no class, just trained the Sword-skill a lot.) and the one he wanted to attack was actually a mage! As said, the magic system has pros and cons. The Journey is hard, but once you've became one, you can go on a ramapage. So this Griefer attacks the mage, what happens? The mage fights back, one fireball and boom, you're dead. Once that happens to a griefer, he kind of wants to think twice before attacking someone again.

If you're all thinking: "what if the mage is a griefer?"

You wont see that very often. As you may know, a mage's journey will be harsh and make someone want to give up. The magic system is not cut out for everyone. If there is a griefer trained in the arcane arts, doesn't mean he is unstoppable. Of course, going one on one would be a bad idea, but what if you go with a group? A group of friends, a group of settlement members or even a group of guilds. Even mages wouldn't stand a chance.

And it's not like EVERYONE is a griefer. There are decent people in gaming community.

  ParinoidPanda

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/13
Posts: 21

2/28/13 11:36:28 AM#112

After tossing and turning for a week straight over why PD, I reached this realization:

ToA isn't about building your game experience only around your character(s). It's about creating an enviroment and community to interact with. It's more like an adventure game based around bettering the settlement, not just yourself. PD is there to enforce the concept that your character won't last forever, so you'd better make a lasting impact on the perpetual game world while your particular avater still lives. 

What's different about ToA, IMHO, is that it's an experiment in community building, not hero development. Not to say there won't be epic toons in ToA, but that's not what it's about. It's about becoming a powerful mortal character for the benefit of your chosen settlement. 

PD is there to ensure I make the most of my character. To borrow from Greek mythology, the gods envied the mortals because their limited lifespans gave them a reason to live. The gods were immortal and all-powerful, thus, they would get bored. Hence where most (all?) Greek mythology stories start: one god was bored, so he goofed off, made another god mad, chaos ensued.

If my undead panda's don't get you...

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2268

2/28/13 11:53:17 AM#113
Originally posted by Gassy_the_Goblin
Originally posted by PsiKahn
Originally posted by Ozmodan

More challenged developers who think that they need perma death in a MMO to create a challenge.  Earth to developers, it does not work that way!

Game sounded great until they had to throw in the PD.  Won't fund it, nor touch it.  Waste of my and everyone else's time.

Great concept though, would fund it if they dropped the perma death feature.

I don't think the developers are employing Perma-Death to make the game more challenging.  It's main purpose is to change the mental calculus players employ in decision making and to prevent character bloat.  If you like the other features, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.  It's worth seeing how this one plays out.

I completely agree with PsiKahn .  "Mental calculus," is one of the best descriptions I've heard for the main purpose of PD.   

  All well and good untill you die for the 20th time from server lag, LD, or other server / internet instability. Don't think it won't happen. Its one thing to think how it will work in practice, its another when you actually figure in the real world problems such as connection problems and buggy laggy games from indie developers that are working on a shoe string budget and thuse are willing to cram the max number of players per band width

  Metentso

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1458

2/28/13 12:10:10 PM#114
Originally posted by Holyfleadip
Originally posted by Metentso

I wish i could put into words what is in my head. I will try.

Let's see... first of all, forget all you know about MMOs from 2002 to today. Just forget it. For a while.

Ok, now, lets go back to Everquest in year 2000.

Ok, now, lets go to a RED server in Everquest at that time. That was a PVP server where you could attack absolutely anyone, your faction, their faction, your race, NPCs, everyone.

Granted, it was not permadeath, but dying was really a pain in the ass.

Was there PKng, griefing, assholes, ruining your game time? Yes there was.

But there was something else, what we might call a "code". That code was, for many people, not to kill without a reason.

See an asshole is an asshole, even, a normal guy can be an asshole sometimes, i have been an asshole sometimes, but most of the time, normal people won't be assholes, or not all the time. These normal people, won't do anything to you that's too bad for no reason. This is built in our brains, we are not so bad deep down. Ask yourselves, are you going to gank a guy that is in his 99th life (ok, we migth not know it in the game, but imagine you can). Most of you won't, unless there is a good reason to.

I could tell you several experiences in EQ red serves where a powerful guy would not kill someone lower level, even in a heated discussion. That code, that respect for the other, prevented it. This is what happens when something "serious" (i know a game is not serious strictly speaking) might happen. See, what i mean is, you can't compare how people behave in a random modern MMO to how people will behave in ToA. The consequences are different, people behave differently.

Yes there will be the assholes that will have a lol out of killing people, just because it's important, but normal people will be able to protect against them. For instance. Have you tried to get people to help you when someone ganks and corpse camps you in WOW? It could be possible some years ago, but now normally nobody cares, unless you have really good friends. That's because the consequences, the damage done to you, it' not too big. But in ToA, the damage is big, people will react, because they will want to be helped too when they are in trouble.

This is what happened in EQ, it was based in the solidarity between players. You help me, i help you. This builds a community. Of course it wasn't only a selfish interest, it feels good to help someone that's really in need.

 

 

Not to put down your hopes in humanity, but that was 2000.  Most MMO players were young adults back then.   Little kids couldn't buy PCs and parents didn't want their kids playing with freak adults playing games.  PCs now cost next to nothing and are used as baby sittiers.  The little snots of today will be very happy to gank you for hours.  The community of the past will not exist.  They now have rotted their brains or no longer play.

The beauty of it is that little snots won't want to be part of a permadeath system, or as i see it, an "aging" system, because 100 deaths will simulate your character aging. They want a zero risk system,and in ToA, as in Eve as Dihoru said, there will be consequences.

  ForgedChaos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/23/12
Posts: 3

2/28/13 12:36:54 PM#115

I just wanted to jump in here real quick and thank everyone for their comments both for and against perma-death.  As everyone on our forums know, we like to hear all sides of a topic because it may open our eyes to something we didn't think of or have overlooked.

In the end, all the debate in the world won't determine if PD (in the way we've designed it  <- very important) will work or not.  Only by giving it a go will we know if it can sink or swim and we're willing to try something truly different.

I would urge you to give us just a bit of your time by going to our site and read up on exactly how we're implementing PD along with some other features like innovations and cooperative crafting.  If you have any questions, ask them on the forums.  You are not going to find a friendlier bunch of gamers that will be happy to answer your questions in a more mature and postive manner.

After that, if you still don't think ToA is your cup of tea, drop me a PM and I'll take the time to personally wish you the very best in your gaming endeavors and even suggest a gameor two that might be a better fit for your gaming style.

Don Danielson (aka Brax)

  User Deleted
2/28/13 12:46:02 PM#116
Originally posted by ForgedChaos

I just wanted to jump in here real quick and thank everyone for their comments both for and against perma-death.  As everyone on our forums know, we like to hear all sides of a topic because it may open our eyes to something we didn't think of or have overlooked.

In the end, all the debate in the world won't determine if PD (in the way we've designed it  <- very important) will work or not.  Only by giving it a go will we know if it can sink or swim and we're willing to try something truly different.

I would urge you to give us just a bit of your time by going to our site and read up on exactly how we're implementing PD along with some other features like innovations and cooperative crafting.  If you have any questions, ask them on the forums.  You are not going to find a friendlier bunch of gamers that will be happy to answer your questions in a more mature and postive manner.

After that, if you still don't think ToA is your cup of tea, drop me a PM and I'll take the time to personally wish you the very best in your gaming endeavors and even suggest a gameor two that might be a better fit for your gaming style.

Don Danielson (aka Brax)

-bows head- thank you for your kind words Don ^^ and good luck with securing funding, when the kickstarter gets up and running I'll either donate or let others know of its existence (bit strapped for cash... starving scientist you might say XD) and keep up the faith because I wanna see ToA launch and succeed, it could very well be the EVE of fantasy games in which case it will take many years and many trials but you guys could sometime from now also be celebrating 500k subs :).

  Roughshod

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/13
Posts: 16

2/28/13 8:06:39 PM#117

I started following ToA back at the start of January, at first I was very skeptical and hostile to the permadeath concept. But seeing as how there are no other MMOs worth playing, I did have a lot of time on my hands to consider it. I now think it is a great concept for reasons that the other posters have said here, no need to restate it all myself.

 

There's a lot more to ToA than permadeath - that is not the point of the game. The innovation and discovery system sounds very fun. It has not been discussed much, but once someone invents / discovers something, only they have that knowledge. BUT they can either 1) teach that knowledge to their friends in case it is useful, or 2) someone can 'loot' that info from their head if they successfully beat them in combat.

 

So say you discover an improved sword technique - do you keep it to yourself and be a lone badass? or do you teach it to your settlement friends - so EVERYONE in the settlement is now better and can defend better?

 

Or do you discover an improved fortification? or potion forumula? etc. Check out the website for more details on this - it's really cool.

 

Exploration and chance are also a big feature of ToA, there won't be set "raid" dungeons like in other MMOs. They will spawn and then go away, and they won't be easy or structured like you are used to. Think of it more as if you found a cave in the Lord of The Rings novel - they didn't pull 50 packs then kill a boss. It is more of an adventure.

 

Settlements are probably the biggest draw for many people interested in ToA. The biggest misconception people seem to be having about "open world, pvp always on, permadeath" concept is they lack how the devs have given the settlements the upper hand in defense. The way I see the game playing out is sort of like EVE, except instead of one giant safe zone in the middle, you have smaller isolated safe zones with lots of defenseless wilderness in between. It's 100% possible to die anywhere in both ToA and EVE from pvp, it's just a lot less likely, and less rewarding (usually), to do so in the zones set up for defensive players. You put the good valuable stuff out in the dangerous areas, and game reaches equilibrium.

 

If you're a cautious gamer, you can take less risks and live longer (it's not a game where you only play to see how many creative ways you die, or how fast). If you like to take risks and charge in swords blazing - then go for it. It just has consequences.

 

Just like in EVE, the game can cater to people who both hate risk and love risk. These people need each other, just like in all aspects. The more diverse types of players who can find a home in an MMO, the better the experience gets for everyone.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1953

3/01/13 12:06:31 PM#118
Originally posted by potapithikos

Casual is a mentality. The "I want but ain't gonna give what is needed" mentality. People that think that the only reason someone else is better than them is because of time investment. Time investment just differentiates the top 2% of the playerbase from the rest of the "good players".

 

You want to be a Casual? fine! Nobody ever has a right to tell you how to play but blaming your failures to evolve in any game because you got griefed is just hiding behind your own finger.

Wow, what a load of............!  PvP / Hardcore elitism at its finest.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3581

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/01/13 11:58:33 PM#119
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by potapithikos

Casual is a mentality. The "I want but ain't gonna give what is needed" mentality. People that think that the only reason someone else is better than them is because of time investment. Time investment just differentiates the top 2% of the playerbase from the rest of the "good players".

 

You want to be a Casual? fine! Nobody ever has a right to tell you how to play but blaming your failures to evolve in any game because you got griefed is just hiding behind your own finger.

Wow, what a load of............!  PvP / Hardcore elitism at its finest.

Some people have to make a second job of things... ^^  Others have to tear people down, to build themselves up.  Yet others have to make a competition out of everything.  All I'm looking for these days is an entertaining game.  One of the elements of that (to me) these days is a lack of PvP, and especially a lack of perma death when coupled with PvP.

Perma death is one of those design elements that some people look to to add "risk" and "excitement" or the now infamous "challenge" to a game.  While its certainly *one* approach, its by no means necessary, or perhaps even the best way of adding such elements.  But to each their own. If they can make it work for them, then more power to them.

  Choch

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 150

3/02/13 12:21:23 PM#120
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by potapithikos

Casual is a mentality. The "I want but ain't gonna give what is needed" mentality. People that think that the only reason someone else is better than them is because of time investment. Time investment just differentiates the top 2% of the playerbase from the rest of the "good players".

 

You want to be a Casual? fine! Nobody ever has a right to tell you how to play but blaming your failures to evolve in any game because you got griefed is just hiding behind your own finger.

Wow, what a load of............!  PvP / Hardcore elitism at its finest.

 

I personally wouldn't call it pvp/hardcore elitism. I am sure Potapithikos feels the same way I do about the current state of mmorpg's today as well as the constant "PvP? Perma-death? No thanks!" kind of knee-jerk reaction to this games features. That's like looking at a sport like baseball and saying "Bats? Outs? No thanks!". You would really like it if you gave the game a chance and really understand the reasoning behind all of these features. Just like how if you give baseball a chance, learn the rules and check it out, maybe you'll realy like it! Granted, this game isn't for everyone, just like how baseball isnt' for everyone but it's just that initial stereotype I am referring to that we would like people to get over and give the game a chance because it is SO MUCH MORE than just a 'open world pvp' game.

 

 

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