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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » "US free-to-play audience outnumbers pay-to-play 6 to 1"

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350 posts found
  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

2/24/13 12:48:56 AM#121

RANDOM FACT OF THE DAY:

Sheep outnumber lions 51628 to 1.

  grimfall

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1151

2/24/13 12:53:55 AM#122
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by Talgen
My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

 and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

If you tried to play one of these FTP games with the same content - all the races, classes, zones and items  you'd pay more.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/how-much-does-planetside-2-cost-if-you-buy-everything/

$702 to buy the existing PS2 items, and that doesn't include single use camo potions or 5 years of content upgrade.

 

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

2/24/13 12:56:49 AM#123
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01

 

This so called satistic tries to suggest that the F2P market is bigger and more successful. Well, thats actually complete rubbish. Of cause there are more players on F2P games but that has nothing to do with success or failure. Both models are equally successful in terms of money made.

What you have to look at is the REAL numbers in terms of MONEY made from games in both revenue models.

In 2012 the US had roughly 50 Million players of which 23 million payed in some form, be it monthly fees or item shops. The top countries had a total revenue of $3.1 billion for P2P and $3.4 billion for F2P. This is 50% of the global market.

 

Check your facts people.

The F2P market IS bigger. And it appears to be slightly more successful from a revenue standpoint based on the information you provided. And it's rate of growth has been much faster than P2P games which are actually in decline.

 

I mean, I'm not sure why you would call it complete rubbish when the stuff you linked only helps support that F2P makes slightly more than P2P.  

The difference is minimal. The OP and the statistic he linked suggests a 6 to 1 difference. That is simply NOT TRUE. Why you would even argue this is baffling.

Originally posted by jtcgs

 About those facts, how much of the P2P market was World of Warcraft...oh yeah, turns out only a few P2P games are making money, turning to F2P and making MORE of it...which will turn a larger portion of that market share even higher for F2P.

NO, as i have shown with the 2012 report, the market share is 47/53. It has noting to do with WoW or any other game. Are you simply ignoring the facts here or are you not able to understand it?

 

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2407

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

2/24/13 1:01:03 AM#124
Originally posted by grimfall
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by Talgen
My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

 and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

If you tried to play one of these FTP games with the same content - all the races, classes, zones and items  you'd pay more.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/how-much-does-planetside-2-cost-if-you-buy-everything/

$702 to buy the existing PS2 items, and that doesn't include single use camo potions or 5 years of content upgrade.

 

Whats insane is the F2P games that have a big emphasis on guild, clan, alliance, (insert random group), achievements and then all of the sudden, you get people not only spending that $702 dollars on themself but also on their friends and guildies.  All of the sudden, they are spending thousands and sometime tens of thousands in a single month.

  grimfall

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1151

2/24/13 1:01:40 AM#125
Originally posted by Rossboss

 




How they conducted the study.

Just focusing on that.  If you read the link you have there, and believe that Blizzard and EA are sharing their data with these yahoos, I have got a whole catalog of lovely bridges to sell you.

Read that content in your link: Every month we collect information from 350 game titles over 50 publishers.

I never knew there were 50 AAA MMO developers and they average 7 games a piece.

Even if these developers were actually sharing their information with this company (again, highly debateable), it's a bunch of Farmville vs Vampire Hunter Facebook games, not SOE and Turbine.

  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

2/24/13 1:06:19 AM#126
Originally posted by grimfall
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by Talgen
My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

 and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

If you tried to play one of these FTP games with the same content - all the races, classes, zones and items  you'd pay more.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/how-much-does-planetside-2-cost-if-you-buy-everything/

$702 to buy the existing PS2 items, and that doesn't include single use camo potions or 5 years of content upgrade.

 

That makes no sense. Nobody ever goes out and buys access to everything in a F2P game. Nobody ever plays a P2P game in every way they possibly can, with every race and every class, and get every shiny piece of gear. It's an absolutely absurd comparison.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  Brabbit1987

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 637

2/24/13 1:07:01 AM#127
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01

 

This so called satistic tries to suggest that the F2P market is bigger and more successful. Well, thats actually complete rubbish. Of cause there are more players on F2P games but that has nothing to do with success or failure. Both models are equally successful in terms of money made.

What you have to look at is the REAL numbers in terms of MONEY made from games in both revenue models.

In 2012 the US had roughly 50 Million players of which 23 million payed in some form, be it monthly fees or item shops. The top countries had a total revenue of $3.1 billion for P2P and $3.4 billion for F2P. This is 50% of the global market.

 

Check your facts people.

The F2P market IS bigger. And it appears to be slightly more successful from a revenue standpoint based on the information you provided. And it's rate of growth has been much faster than P2P games which are actually in decline.

 

I mean, I'm not sure why you would call it complete rubbish when the stuff you linked only helps support that F2P makes slightly more than P2P.  

The difference is minimal. The OP and the statistic he linked suggests a 6 to 1 difference. That is simply NOT TRUE. Why you would even argue this is baffling.

There is a 6 to 1 difference in "audience". A bigger audience means a bigger potential to make more money. Going pay to play limits your player base by a lot. Going free to play can not only draw in many more players but it can potentially make more profit if it's done correctly. It's really not that hard to figure out.

If this wasn't the case then how come so many companies are going free to play? It's obviously a model that is working out. You wouldn't go free to play if there was less money invovled now would you?

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

2/24/13 1:12:47 AM#128
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by colddog04
Originally posted by taus01

 

This so called satistic tries to suggest that the F2P market is bigger and more successful. Well, thats actually complete rubbish. Of cause there are more players on F2P games but that has nothing to do with success or failure. Both models are equally successful in terms of money made.

What you have to look at is the REAL numbers in terms of MONEY made from games in both revenue models.

In 2012 the US had roughly 50 Million players of which 23 million payed in some form, be it monthly fees or item shops. The top countries had a total revenue of $3.1 billion for P2P and $3.4 billion for F2P. This is 50% of the global market.

 

Check your facts people.

There is a 6 to 1 difference in "audience". A bigger audience means a bigger potential to make more money. Going pay to play limits your player base by a lot. Going free to play can not only draw in many more players but it can potentially make more profit if it's done correctly. It's really not that hard to figure out.

Yes i agree, there might be a bigger potential. However, reality shows that in the end they make about the same amount of money. So frankly, this potential is worth fook all.

If this wasn't the case then how come so many companies are going free to play? It's obviously a model that is working out. You wouldn't go free to play if there was less money invovled now would you?

There is not less money involved, it is the same. Both demographics are shown to spend about the same amount of money.

It's really simple.

 

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  TheHavok

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 2407

"Free crack and everybody gets laid."

2/24/13 1:20:40 AM#129
Originally posted by Rossboss
Originally posted by grimfall
Originally posted by Theocritus
Originally posted by Talgen
My parent's always told me, "you get what you pay for" ~ It has served me well..

 and what p2p MMO are you getting what you pay for??...I played EQ for 5 years and probably paid over a grand and I sure as heck did not get equal value.....F2P has been a nice alternative

If you tried to play one of these FTP games with the same content - all the races, classes, zones and items  you'd pay more.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/11/30/how-much-does-planetside-2-cost-if-you-buy-everything/

$702 to buy the existing PS2 items, and that doesn't include single use camo potions or 5 years of content upgrade.

 

That makes no sense. Nobody ever goes out and buys access to everything in a F2P game. Nobody ever plays a P2P game in every way they possibly can, with every race and every class, and get every shiny piece of gear. It's an absolutely absurd comparison.

Lol, I understand what you are saying.  However, I think also the point to make from grimfall's post would be that P2P games simply do not have the price restriction, outside of the monthly fee.  Once you pay that monthly fee, no matter how little or how much you work, you are on equal footing with everybody else and you never have to feel you are at a disadvantage becasue you aren't spending money in their web shop. 

I know in a lot of free to play pvp games, you need to be spending a good amount of money if you want to stay as competitive as possible.  In P2P, you just spend that 15 bucks a month and then rely on your time and skill to get you where you want to be.

  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

2/24/13 1:22:34 AM#130
Originally posted by grimfall
Originally posted by Rossboss

 




How they conducted the study.

Just focusing on that.  If you read the link you have there, and believe that Blizzard and EA are sharing their data with these yahoos, I have got a whole catalog of lovely bridges to sell you.

Read that content in your link: Every month we collect information from 350 game titles over 50 publishers.

I never knew there were 50 AAA MMO developers and they average 7 games a piece.

Even if these developers were actually sharing their information with this company (again, highly debateable), it's a bunch of Farmville vs Vampire Hunter Facebook games, not SOE and Turbine.

If you believe Blizzard, EA, and smaller developers aren't sharing your data, let me welcome you to the era of Facebook where you can freely share your own data to others and tell them how many cows you e-milked today.

The study is not specifically stand-alone MMORPGs either, make note of that.

I'd imagine it includes smart phone applications and Facebook games alike.

I didn't generate this study nor do I claim to see this as the holy grail of all writing.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  Dogblaster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

2/24/13 1:23:12 AM#131
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Dogblaster

Man ... really so many of you are that poor that you must complain about 15 bucks per month? For real? Just dont go to KFC/MC every day and you will be ready to go :)

 

15 bucks heh.. I spent about 500-600 euro on Guild wars 2 already.

 

...

F2P .. No thank you :D

You spent 500+ euro on GW 2 and then you say no thank you to F2P? You do realise that GW 2 is using the F2P model with the only difference that they charge for the box?

I mean, people who spend like you do is the reason why F2P is a success.

ye ... guild wars 2 is buy 2 play. First you need to box to play it. Free to play is.. hey new game, register, download, play.

 

But you are right, they made damn a lot of money from me but we are not talking about how much money F2P makes right? I am talking that games that are B2P or P2P are in general better games because they can afford this model. F2P cant.

 

Anyways ..those 500-600 euros were spent mostly on legendaries and dyes, keys :D after 1500 hours from release I managed to crafted my second legendary and I had no motivation to play anymore, zero 0. I didnt play guild wars 2 for month now. It is good mmorpg? HELL YEA. Why  I dont play it? Because its too easy to have maxxed out characters. TOO easy. For me, perfect mmorpg must have HUGE character customization, progress and maxxing out character in term of gear must take LONG time, not weeks, but months or years.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4332

2/24/13 1:26:57 AM#132
Originally posted by taus01

Yes i agree, there might be a bigger potential. However, reality shows that in the end they make about the same amount of money. So frankly, this potential is worth fook all.

If this wasn't the case then how come so many companies are going free to play? It's obviously a model that is working out. You wouldn't go free to play if there was less money invovled now would you?

There is not less money involved, it is the same. Both demographics are shown to spend about the same amount of money.

It's really simple.

 

100% of p2p players pay ( duh ). What % of f2p players pay ? It's potantial is whatever amount isn't paying right now.....

Just because someone hasn't payed doesn't mean the game will never add anything they might want. That's the big difference between the two. With 6 times ( and yes that's as good as a random number I wont argue that ) the number of people playing it's simply a matter if finding out what people will pay for.

P2P has to find a way to get people to play the game first. That's a much bigger hurtle to overcome. They also have to be able to keep them paying month to month or risk them writing the game off. F2p with it's more transient population doesn't have this issue as much. People come back to f2p games if they like them because there' s no commitment. Pay to play has to be worth spending money on them again before they'll return.

These are just some of the reasons why f2p is becoming so popular. I honestly don't see the point in arguing about it though. Both have a pretty solid market right now and it really comes down to the game more than anything. A good p2p game is going to keep it's people and make more money than a f2p game. It's also going to fail faster if it's bad. So I guess risk is another issue for p2p and development.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

2/24/13 1:35:07 AM#133

  This thread feels like a confused mess when I read most of the replies.  I'm going to try and phrase my thoughts about it here, and maybe detract from some of this back and forth.

  First, there is no reason to think the F2P model is negative at all.  I'll grant that many do it terribly, but I'll also grant that just as many (in such a way that one can compare the two genres these days) P2P games done terribly.  Consider games like SWG, which completely shifted its entire game and all of its corresponding elements around at a whim multiple times.  The thing it became was pretty far removed from the thing it was...which meant that the investment made by players was basically ignored in hopes of drawing new players, and the investment therein, to the game.  Such a thing is AT LEAST as bad as a P2W game, in terms of how poorly in reflects the marketplace.  You have risk in either case regarding what your money is buying you.

  Truthfully, the real lesson here is that accessability needs to be the focus of a P2P game.  The masses flock to F2P because it cost them nothing to try it and hate it.  Given that MMO gaming is alive, now, in a purely digital world (by which I mean that most transactions are being done digitally, and without physical copies) there is no reason to burn box sales.  Ditch the box, and offer free trial periods.  Give em level 1-20 free.  On top of that, allow them an xp boost for any friends they send invite codes to.  Now what you've done is let them try it without worry, and then reward them for bringing pals along.  The turnabout here is that, thanks to the accelerated xp gain, they hit the 20 wall faster...and do so with a handful of people at the same time.  Now, odds are good that if the game is even remotely fun at least one of those people WILL start their monthly fee.  This will feed the pack mentality of most people to want to pay RIGHT then as well, to keep up with their friends and keep playing together.

  Assuming most people will at least try to get friends in on this for the free xp boost, you've created several small clusters of steady players that will be regulars in the game space.  Since these clusters will be online reliably, they meet each other reliably.  This forms the foundation of the solid community most MMO's need to maintain playerbases.  You don't even need the first 20 levels to be content heavy, since most will have accelerated XP.  You can shift the design focus to mid-end game.  This allows for more development time spent on the things that actually define your game.  With even the most minimal tools for player generated content, you've secured a year 1 stability.  That often enough to warrant further development which, if done with wisdom, will include equal parts end game themepark and player generated content tools. 

  Instead of this, we have a market division that is really only rewarding to "milkers", F2P cash grabs, and "hypers", P2P hype fests that need massive interest to secure box sales that make up for inevitable player bleed once the hype busts.  Very little smart business is being done here, and you can tell from the many corporate collaspses we've seen lately.  How many studios have we lost?  Not just run of the mill guys...I mean big names and large players going bust at every turn.  This isn't because they are evolving with their market, its because they assumed the market would remain the same for longer than it has.  The consumer has a tabled option of trying games long term for free.  To compete, you have to approach that threshold more closely than the average P2P has been doing.

  Dogblaster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

2/24/13 1:36:03 AM#134

Guuuys .have fun where you want... X2P Y2P SEX2P .. no one cares what you play xD

 

For me B2P/P2P it is, for others F2P only. But why to argue about it all day

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15126

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

2/24/13 1:38:37 AM#135
Originally posted by Boudewijns

Wel imo, people that p2p, feel obligated to play the game, where people that f2p dont.

And if they want to spend money on the game they will, so yeah i think that there r more fp2 then p2p gamers

Does this mean people who pay $100-$200 for cable TV never leave their home because they're obligated to watch? It's no different with games, you pay to have access, I can't imagine many people spend every waking hour playing due to that.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

2/24/13 1:51:21 AM#136
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Boudewijns

Wel imo, people that p2p, feel obligated to play the game, where people that f2p dont.

And if they want to spend money on the game they will, so yeah i think that there r more fp2 then p2p gamers

Does this mean people who pay $100-$200 for cable TV never leave their home because they're obligated to watch? It's no different with games, you pay to have access, I can't imagine many people spend every waking hour playing due to that.

  Bad logic.  If you found yourself in a way that did not allow you to watch TV for more than an hour a week or so you'd probably get rid of it.  I believe that was the heart of his point.  Another boon of F2P is that you can leave it for a space of time and return to it without changing anything and without the time between costing you.  In that way it mimics the joy of a shooter, you can play it or leave it at will and the process is painless.  A P2P involves setting up the sub, and then making enough use of that month to justify it.  It also means setting it up again if you cancel because you had to go on a long job trip or vacation or something.  There is a simplicity there that, I'll admit, is enticing.

  twrule

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/09
Posts: 1260

2/24/13 2:30:35 AM#137
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by twrule

I'm sorry, but your analogy to the Cello teacher is flawed. Of course a teacher would rather have a small handful of dedicated students - but in an mmo, developers (and players) do want more traffic, even if a good portion of it is 'transient'. Players want to feel like they are in a populated world, and devs want publicity and potential direct income from those players. And since you'll have both the dedicated tight-knit community and the transient population anyway, the fact that p2p keeps transients down is no coherent argument for those who seek a tight-knit community to want a p2p game.

Thta's true it is flawed but the thrust of that and my point was "engaged and serious people will pay for quality and be very invested in what they pay for".

And I already addressed this point: something is seriously wrong if anyone is relying on the psychological pressure created when one financially invests in something to be the primary motivation for them to do anything, particularly entering into an implicitly social activity with other human beings. Using your own analogy: a student who worked hard because he paid a lot of money might end up being a better student than the one who walked in for cheap, but a much better student than the former would be the one who was intrinsically motivated (by their love of music, say). In this case, if you want tight-knit community, you should act under motivations of establishing tight-knit community (perhaps via love of a particular game, or gaming in general, or better yet because of the people themselves). Which 'community' is more tightly-knit: the people in a dance club that asks for a cover charge, or the independent club of enthusiasts for some hobby that organizes free meetings regularly?

I understand you are arguing that paying communities may tend to end up being tighter-knit because of this prodding, but I think that people should be willing to form such communities without such prodding, hence the former is not a good reason to categorically prefer P2P over F2P/B2P.

Of course if I can have a house without paying money or a car or eat out every night then I'd take advantage of that. Of course if I can play a game for free why wouldn't I? But the reality is that developers aren't doing this out of the goodness of their heart, they need money.

I do agree that it's up to the developers or game companies to be mindful of how they work the monitization of the game.

If you admit these statements together, I don't see what the issue is. It's the devs that offered the F2P/B2P models in the first place...because they thought it would make them the most money. To the extent they were wrong, it's their job to figure out a better way, not mine or yours. So I'll focus on what seems to be your beef below:

But the reality is that they want, need, people to buy things. So they throw in some stuff that they hope is going to lure people to spend a few bucks. This is B.S.

I'm guessing you're not calling it B.S. meaning 'unsuccessful', because clearly for many games it is. So you're saying it's immoral then? I don't think there is any room for such considerations in business, but you could rightfully criticize the consumer for purchasing virtual items they really have no need for. I would too - and if the day came that there were no longer enough extravagant people around to support free gaming, I'd gladly quit playing with everyone else - however, it's much more plausible that other models would arise that people would find more agreeable (again, B2P isn't a bad start, maybe sponsored gaming later on).

Instead, maybe developers they can actually work on a game that players want to play and are willing to pay their sub because they see value. But developers have been short on value lately.

That's fine and all - though it out to be taken into consideration that the psychological pressure of having to 'get one's money worth' can be a real detriment to one's play experience, counteracting a large amount of actual game quality. I've experienced this first-hand, and found that my enjoyment of many games that had previously charged subs increased once they offered f2p options for this reason.

What f2p has done is to create a weird sort of pyramid scheme. people come in, some will pay a bit here and there and they will leave and the cycle continues.

Not sure what you're on about here - no one is forcing anyone to leave. If you're referring to games that introduce necessary cash-shop purchases for late-game progression, well, there are more and more F2P games that aren't doing that anymore.

And it's true, people who don't pay become the "content" for the paying players. Some might be serious about the game, some might just be passing through but in the end it becomes a diluting of the community where one has to actually search out for the players who are invested in the game.

You wouldn't have to search them out in a P2P game? Again, financially-invested is not necessarily the desirable kind of invested.

I've seen it in LOTRO and the same with Aion. I used to know people in both games. now if I meet someone in either game they are usually not there when I come back. It's a constant adding and deleting to my friend list.

I'd rather have a small dedicated community but sadly developers need more and more money to fund these games.

I understand that but there is a noticiable difference between the game communities of my early years of these games and the large transient communities that have become the norm with f2p games.

This is not necessarily the fault of the payment model - I've had the same experience with many AAA full-sub games. You could say more casual players are attracted to F2P games maybe (because they lack the money-pressure I mentioned), but that does not preclude you from seeking out or creating a stable community. Casual gaming is becoming more prevalent even in the P2P sector (ex. WoW), but as I've been saying, if you look hard enough, you can find small dedicated communities in almost any game - perhaps even especially the less main-stream ones (because so few play the game steadily so they want to welcome newcomers).

  Emrendil

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 200

2/24/13 5:02:21 AM#138
Originally posted by Dogblaster
Originally posted by Mardukk
Everyone seems to love P2P in this thread.  Do you still love the box price with the sub?  Or just a sub is enough P2P for you?  Just curious.  I don't feel that I'll ever do box price and sub together ever again, short of my dream game.

I kinda dont care about the money if its worth it ... I dont understand how something like subscription/copy of game can be problem for someone? Everyone is spending 10x more on cigarets, alcohol, fast foods, etc. that gives you nothing..

 

Box + subscription = no problem if the game is worth it. I am even willing to pay A LOT more if its worth it! If Final Fantasy XIV ARR is what I hope it will be, man I would even pay 100 euro for subscription per month:) So yea.. I am happy its copy + subcscription based !

 

What is 60 euro (box) + 13 euro per month for subscription for something you play every day for several years? NOTHING

 

For me the subscription equals good game, good gameplay. more content, better community :) When games go F2P it either means they cant afford some of these things or they heavyly rely on cash shop.

 

Subscription or F2P are just two diffrent business models. If the game is good enough, it will bring money. With F2P even more.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

2/24/13 5:10:42 AM#139

Facebook has a billion registered users.

Some of them are real people too.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1866

WoWWARCoh/vSWGEveProject entropia

2/24/13 5:14:21 AM#140

This just in... People like free stuff... More news at 11.

 

 

Also if you put down 600$ in a game that is about three years worth of subscription(or if you flip it 1 year/3 people or 40 people  paying for one months). So no wonder most games switch over to this sort of model.

 

 

This have been a good conversation

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