The Vendetta Online Kickstarter page has been updated with a new post that indicates the team is behind embracing a free to play tier of gameplay once launch arrives. In addition, VO is nearly 50% funded with just over forty-eight hours to go. 

• Subscribers will still exist, entitled to the best game experience without limitations, including unfettered access to all current and future "endgame" constructs (ownership of stations, capships and territory, guild creation/command, high military rank, etc).
• "Free To Play" characters will have a relatively low/mid level cap, and will be prevented from creating guilds or any of the other endgame content mentioned above. For instance, within the upcoming RTS advancements in our battles, only subscribers would be able to hold command positions, while F2P players could not advance beyond lower enlisted ranks.

Read the full post on the Vendetta Online Kickstarter page.

Not to be a "doomsayer", but seeing as they've got only 33 hours to go and are sitting at $46K of $100K, I'm afraid they're not going to make it.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

27 hours now; I've already pledged $1k.

Anything can happen, as the saying goes.

I think the reason is clear.

PC players have been supporting this game for years and the first thing they want to do with your money is get it on the iPad and iphone? Then they want you to throw another 100K in the pot and they'll get to version 2.0.

They didn't think this thru as far as i'm concered. I when straight to the page to throw down some cash when I first heard about the KS campaign and two minutes later I was positive I wanted nothing to do with it.

They always seemed to be trying to branch off and try too many other things to get more press rather than focusing their attention on what they already had to make that better. It never really pulled too many people in and had it been overseen by some big MMO company would have been yanked within the first year due an insufficient player base (at that point generally had about a 10-50 total in game player count, actual numbers there). They've also been plagued by money troubles and unmet goals from the start. It really looked doomed to fail from a very early stage, only surprise is how long it has limped along. Barring a miracle it looks like it'll only be a matter of time before they finally put this one out of its misery.

Originally posted by Phoenix_Hawk
Everything I've been seeing going on in the flurry of recent activity tells me this game is running on steams and they are trying absolutely everything they can to keep it going. First a Kickstarter bid so they can continue to develop an existing game. One hundred thousand dollars in forty-five days shouldn't have been too hard to pull off for an existing and reasonably popular title (Dreamfall got over $850 000 in a week for instance) but it fell well short (ended at $57 366 out of $100 000). Their Steam Greenlight page looks like a lazily made ad for their Kickstarter bid. Now they plan on giving the F2P model a go, what's left for them to try?

They always seemed to be trying to branch off and try too many other things to get more press rather than focusing their attention on what they already had to make that better. It never really pulled too many people in and had it been overseen by some big MMO company would have been yanked within the first year due an insufficient player base (at that point generally had about a 10-50 total in game player count, actual numbers there). They've also been plagued by money troubles and unmet goals from the start. It really looked doomed to fail from a very early stage, only surprise is how long it has limped along. Barring a miracle it looks like it'll only be a matter of time before they finally put this one out of its misery.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're not the same Phoenix making an ass of himself on the greenlight page, but you obviously had a bad experience or something, and feel the need to take it out on a small indie game by spreading false information.  Where are you getting 10-50 players?*  This is just, wrong.  So wrong, it's kind of funny.

Consider that the vast majority of Kickstarter projects that fail never make it past the 30% mark.  Vendetta raised $57,366.00 of its goal without even being featured.  This shows considerable interest in a project with a 4-man dev team, venerable enough to have kept plugging along for over a decade.

I'd also like to see you substantiate that claim that "they've also been plagued by money troubles and unmet goals from the start."  I'll wait.

*as these are "actual numbers", citing your source shouldn't be hard

Originally posted by tyrannis

I think the reason is clear.

 

PC players have been supporting this game for years and the first thing they want to do with your money is get it on the iPad and iphone? Then they want you to throw another 100K in the pot and they'll get to version 2.0.

 

That was the problem I had with it. I wasn't really motivated to pitch in for basically a project that had no bearing on my gameplay.

---

Originally posted by Phaserlight
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you're not the same Phoenix making an ass of himself on the greenlight page, but you obviously had a bad experience or something, and feel the need to take it out on a small indie game by spreading false information.  Where are you getting 10-50 players?*  This is just, wrong.  So wrong, it's kind of funny.

Consider that the vast majority of Kickstarter projects that fail never make it past the 30% mark.  Vendetta raised $57,366.00 of its goal without even being featured.  This shows considerable interest in a project with a 4-man dev team, venerable enough to have kept plugging along for over a decade.

I'd also like to see you substantiate that claim that "they've also been plagued by money troubles and unmet goals from the start."  I'll wait.

*as these are "actual numbers", citing your source shouldn't be hard

---

There was absolutely no false information in what I said and you know that, you just refuse to admit it. I got my info on what it was like in the first year and before launch regarding money problems and other issues from the likes of you, the devs and related in the official VO forums and game press of the time. I wrote it down and saved it in old files. Current player counts used to be listed on the VO site and a fan used to run a stats page showing hourly player counts up to about thirty days back. Within a few months or so of launch typical daily peaks were at about 60 players, within a year it was down to about 40 and I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 20 or less now. Although some time back they changed things so you can't get player counts any more and the stats page is long gone. Again, that data was put in my old files and stuff like that if I didn't save it I likely wouldn't be able to find very well if at all at this point as it's so old which is why you asked for it.

Regarding the Kickstarter bid that was a dismal failure as VO should have had everything going for it to make getting $100k easy. A Kickstarter bid to continue something that already exists isn't really the norm, it much more often than not is for new stuff by new businesses which have a hard time getting press in time due to being unknown and unconnected plus it may not be for something people are that interested in to begin with. Another problem is when the bid just looks sloppy as it wasn't organized well plus they didn't make the effort to generate something eye catching and relevant to their would be donators.

When it is for a preexisting game by a preexisting business it should have an edge due to an existing player base and a supposed track record of success. Look at the one for the new The Longest Journey/Dreamfall game, within the first week it hit its $850k base goal. VO if it had some sort of acceptable player base for a current MMO especially since they were giving subscription discounts shouldn't have had any problems at all making $100k in 45 days plus it already had press outlets to contact to help get the word out. Instead when you look at the VO forums you see people saying how they donated multiple times over yet it still fell well short.

Then if you want to talk poorly done and not relevant to the audience look at that joke of a Greenlight page. It was not a "here's our game, doesn't it look great and don't you want to play it?" type thing like every other one out there. Instead it was just a copy paste advertisement for and from their Kickstarter bid. The fact it has Kickstarter plastered all over it and it failed will just work against all the more them if they can't/don't redo the whole thing as people will see that as a big warning sign to avoid the game. The whole thing was poorly done in every fashion and highlights what I thought of the company and the game from way back when, it's an amateurish project that is just barely crawling along. If it wasn't run by just four people that just can't accept that don't have something effectively marketable it would have been dropped ages ago. Path of Exile is a the first game by a company that also started as just four guys, look at what they've made, look at VO, notice a quality and results difference, I sure do.

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit
That was the problem I had with it. I wasn't really motivated to pitch in for basically a project that had no bearing on my gameplay.

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by tyrannis

I think the reason is clear.

 

PC players have been supporting this game for years and the first thing they want to do with your money is get it on the iPad and iphone? Then they want you to throw another 100K in the pot and they'll get to version 2.0.

 

That was the problem I had with it. I wasn't really motivated to pitch in for basically a project that had no bearing on my gameplay.

Originally posted by Phoenix_Hawk

 

 

 

I'd also like to see you substantiate that claim that "they've also been plagued by money troubles and unmet goals from the start."  I'll wait.

*as these are "actual numbers", citing your source shouldn't be hard

Current player counts used to be listed on the VO site and a fan used to run a stats page showing hourly player counts up to about thirty days back. Within a few months or so of launch typical daily peaks were at about 60 players, within a year it was down to about 40 and I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 20 or less now. Although some time back they changed things so you can't get player counts any more and the stats page is long gone. Again, that data was put in my old files and stuff like that if I didn't save it I likely wouldn't be able to find very well if at all at this point as it's so old which is why you asked for it.

That's cute; you're still wrong.  Making vague references to websites that no longer exist, peppered with qualitative language and garnished with one or two imaginary figures =/= proof.  I'll see your unsupported claim and raise you a dev post.  I'm still waiting for that link.  Otherwise, I suggest you take Incarnate's advice and stop making stuff up.

Lokto: the gameplay actually was the primary focus of the Kickstarter; Incarnate explains it pretty well in this reddit-AMA.  They wanted to add things like RTS-gameplay on the battlefield in Vendetta 1.9.  It even states toward the top of the KS "The vast majority of KS funds will go toward gameplay enhancements."  As I understand it, they needed to highlight the iPad port to generate enough press interest (which it did).^[1][2] It's a double-edged sword; what gets a game like VO noticed for a short-term project like this isn't necessarily what the current playerbase cares about.

Fortunately, it looks like they are still trying for some of the goals mentioned in the Kickstarter:

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/26993?page=12#330574

In the long run, I think VO for the iPad will be a good thing as it will eventually bring in more players.

Originally posted by Phaserlight

Lokto: the gameplay actually was the primary focus of the Kickstarter; Incarnate explains it pretty well in this reddit-AMA.  They wanted to add things like RTS-gameplay on the battlefield in Vendetta 1.9.  It even states toward the top of the KS "The vast majority of KS funds will go toward gameplay enhancements."  As I understand it, they needed to highlight the iPad port to generate enough press interest (which it did).^[1][2] It's a double-edged sword; what gets a game like VO noticed for a short-term project like this isn't necessarily what the current playerbase cares about.

Fortunately, it looks like they are still trying for some of the goals mentioned in the Kickstarter:

http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/26993?page=12#330574

In the long run, I think VO for the iPad will be a good thing as it will eventually bring in more players.

Thanks for the news and info. Played the game a few years ago on PC and then got hooked on it for a short while when it came out for Android. Been hoping it would go free to play or come up with some other pricing model. For some reason I just have a problem with 9.99 a month for the game. I actually don't know why, though, as it's not a bad game.

---

Originally posted by Phaserlight
That's cute; you're still wrong.  Making vague references to websites that no longer exist, peppered with qualitative language and garnished with one or two imaginary figures =/= proof.  I'll see your unsupported claim and raise you a dev post.  I'm still waiting for that link.  Otherwise, I suggest you take Incarnate's advice and stop making stuff up.

---

He said they "gave away" some 20k access passes over the course of 2012. Notice how there's no info on how many people made use of them, only how many they gave out, also how that practice was stated to be ineffective? Your linked thread also shows there are people actually playing that look around and say, "so, where is everyone?" meaning your link works against you as well.

If they had 20k subscribers each would have only needed to donate $5 and presto, $100k. Considering as how they got reduced cost subscription time for donating it would be in an active player's best interest to do so. Yet they came well short with people saying they donated multiple times over. This points to a very low player base for a so called MMO.

You like the VO forums so to prove points? Ok, here's a thread where someone commented on how it felt like it was a beta release, not a final release of a MMO. First response was to explain how strapped for cash the devs were so players offered to start paying which is what they had at that point, everyone agreed. Then there's this one which if you read through it will have more of the same plus mentioning of the family of the devs bailing them out and oh, look, participation by devs and you stating or agreeing to those points. I guess you conveniently forgot about all this though, right?

Originally posted by Phoenix_Hawk

If they had 20k subscribers each would have only needed to donate $5 and presto, $100k. Considering as how they got reduced cost subscription time for donating it would be in an active player's best interest to do so. Yet they came well short with people saying they donated multiple times over. This points to a very low player base for a so called MMO.

Considering that many players won't hear of the campaign and that many people won't contribute to something like Kickstarter (partially because they don't know what the f it is),using that as any kind of gauge of playerbase size is a bit of a stretch. Actually, it's completely illogical.

I'm not saying I have any clue what the size of the playerbase is, but I can say with complete certainty that your made up numbers and clear bias against the game or its players doesn't convince me that you have a clue either.

Originally posted by Phoenix_Hawk

 

---

Originally posted by Phaserlight
That's cute; you're still wrong.  Making vague references to websites that no longer exist, peppered with qualitative language and garnished with one or two imaginary figures =/= proof.  I'll see your unsupported claim and raise you a dev post.  I'm still waiting for that link.  Otherwise, I suggest you take Incarnate's advice and stop making stuff up.

---

Ok, see old threads here in MMORPG like this one for examples of player counts seen in game when the game was still fairly new and people could see how many were online and no one denied those numbers, as they were known facts. We can't check that anymore so he can say about anything he wants about the supposed active player count now and no one can prove otherwise. They took the time and effort to remove that capacity and it would have been done for a reason, most likely as they didn't like people pointing at those low numbers and saying, "ugh that's it?" as a reason not to play. EVE Online still shows that info, their daily player count peaks are still measured in the tens of thousands which helps them as people say "wow, that many, still, cool!" as a reason to play.

 

He said they "gave away" some 20k access passes over the course of 2012. Notice how there's no info on how many people made use of them, only how many they gave out, also how that practice was stated to be ineffective? Your linked thread also shows there are people actually playing that look around and say, "so, where is everyone?" meaning your link works against you as well.

If they had 20k subscribers each would have only needed to donate $5 and presto, $100k. Considering as how they got reduced cost subscription time for donating it would be in an active player's best interest to do so. Yet they came well short with people saying they donated multiple times over. This points to a very low player base for a so called MMO.

You like the VO forums so to prove points? Ok, here's a thread where someone commented on how it felt like it was a beta release, not a final release of a MMO. First response was to explain how strapped for cash the devs were so players offered to start paying which is what they had at that point, everyone agreed. Then there's this one which if you read through it will have more of the same plus mentioning of the family of the devs bailing them out and oh, look, participation by devs and you stating or agreeing to those points. I guess you conveniently forgot about all this though, right?

You do know fanbois recoil from reality like vampires from garlic, right?

Dihoru; you can call me anything you like, I just want to get better.

Phoenix; No, VO forums do not prove anything, but then again, neither do you.  The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, and in this case, that burden is on you; something you have failed yet to do.

I'm not interested in what might have happened based on a promotion, or watching you extrapolate from the Kickstarter.  I want to see you cite your sources before making extravagant arguments.  The fact is you will be unable to provide adequate proof to your claim, because you are wrong; the evidence is against you in this case as Incarnate, you know, made the game.

Enough said.

edit: really? you're going to base your argument on a 5-year-old post from this site, and a newbie's first impression from 8 years ago? Are you kidding?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Considering that many players won't hear of the campaign and that many people won't contribute to something like Kickstarter (partially because they don't know what the f it is),using that as any kind of gauge of playerbase size is a bit of a stretch. Actually, it's completely illogical.

I'm not saying I have any clue what the size of the playerbase is, but I can say with complete certainty that your made up numbers and clear bias against the game or its players doesn't convince me that you have a clue either.

No matter where you look to get some gauge as to how many people play and are interested in this game you come out with the impression that it is a very small number. Only a portion of the community will be interested in the forums but that still helps give you an idea of how active that community is. In the Vendetta Online (VO) forum here it's really just Phaserlight talking to himself. On the official forums if you go back twenty posts in the general forum (typically the most active one in any game) the last post made in the twentieth post is almost a month ago. In an active game it often would be earlier that day or yesterday even if you went further back. The Kickstarter wasn't a good sign. Whenever a subscription game announces the plan to go F2P to some degree that's never a sign that all is well either.

Also the people running a game can easily make sure most active subscribers do know about it and why it's important through e-mailings, log-in messages, press info and so forth. What's more the VO Kickstarter bid ran for 45 days and they could have told people to expect it in advance as well. If they feel it is important to the continuation of the game a company will do as much as they can so people know about it. Looking at their general forum a good handful of the last batch of posts are related to the Kickstarter bid. 20k subscribers isn't a lot for a MMO these days but the whole point was the larger the community the easier it would be to gather that money as unlike most Kickstarter campaigns they did have an existing community to draw on which is a huge advantage. Also those that donated at least $15 would have got subscription time at about a 75% savings so as stated it was in the best interests of those already paying to play to donate as it would have been a minimal change from what they're already paying anyhow. Yet they came well short which again points to a small community, I fail to see how that is in any way illogical.

Do I dislike the game and the people behind it, yes, but my statements whether you believe them or not are true and unlike Phaserlight who I think is even a forum mod on the official VO forums (sure as heck looks like he was the one that locked the thread there he linked) I haven't taken to throwing insults and lies. Especially if he really is a forum mod there he shouldn't be resorting to such things as it only paints a poor picture of the community although even the VO devs will jump in with insults so I guess it's par for the course with VO. Then he uses a post from a dev there to back up what he says but when I do the exact same that's crap and utterly meaningless proving nothing? How can all this be consider acceptable?

Originally posted by Phaserlight

Dihoru; you can call me anything you like, I just want to get better.

Phoenix; No, VO forums do not prove anything, but then again, neither do you.  The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, and in this case, that burden is on you; something you have failed yet to do.

I'm not interested in what might have happened based on a promotion, or watching you extrapolate from the Kickstarter.  I want to see you cite your sources before making extravagant arguments.  The fact is you will be unable to provide adequate proof to your claim, because you are wrong; the evidence is against you in this case as Incarnate, you know, made the game.

Enough said.

edit: really? you're going to base your argument on a 5-year-old post from this site, and a newbie's first impression from 8 years ago? Are you kidding?

 

So you post something from the VO forums and that proves your point but when I do the same, it doesn't? As stated the two from the VO forums had participation by the likes of devs and you stating or agreeing to matters regarding the financial difficulties in keeping the VO project afloat that the devs faced. If statements of what the devs faced from the devs isn't acceptable proof then clearly nothing is to you.

The post from the VO forums here from back then was to back up what I said about how back then the typical in game population was in the range of 10-50 people. Everyone there knew that was true as again there was proof from the game itself and a site using that info stating it to be true so the supporters of VO didn't deny it as they couldn't, instead they tried to say it didn't matter.

All this again goes back to what I was saying about how what people tend to not like in the Guild Wars 2 community and other such games the most is how people just REFUSE to accept anything is wrong with the game. I knew you knew full well that what I stated was true yet you then and still deny it even when I was able to show you knew.

Phoenix_Hawk; bottom line: regardless of how many people play it, it's still a great game.  You're the one with the agenda here; I am taking a stand against the spread of false information.  My point in linking to the main VO forums was to illustrate that things do change, and that to judge a game based on an impression from 5 years ago is foolish.  I think it's safe to say that a post (regardless of proving anything or not) from one month ago is more relevant than a post from the same boards 8 years ago.  Your attempts to equate the two make you seem very biased, which undermines the credibility of your assessment.  Something that was true 5 years ago may no longer be true today: we do not live in a static universe.

"I knew you knew full well that what I stated was true yet you then and still deny it even when I was able to show you knew."

Phrases like these are impossible to argue with; good luck in life (no sarcasm intended).

edit: In case it wasn't clear - this will be my last post in this thread.