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Originally posted by kyssari
I have to agree for the most part, especially with the grouping and social aspects of the game being quite lacking. I find myself not wanting to group at all due to the numerous reasons the op listed.

As for Innovation however I'd of given it a much higher score. You didn't even mention the endgame map system or the orb/scroll currency/crafting system both of which when added to the passive skill tree and skill gem flexibilty (especially with the vast amounts of customization available to your abilities via up to 5 support gems) you have a lot of really great features unique to the genre that also make it a lot more enjoyable as well.

As for the whole argument that PoE is a Diablo 2 clone people seem to forget the meaning of the word clone. A clone is an exact replica. When you change or add anything it is no longer a clone. Its pretty ridiculous how many people try to argue a game is a clone of another one simply because it is the same genre, they are basically saying "hey this is my fav game in the genre so everything else that is the same genre is a clone of it" /facepalm. PoE is by no means a clone it is merely the same genre of game.

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it is not just "merely the same genre of game" totally and completely disagree with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_y_OxhKGR0

that is a game merely in the same genre (even though it has mmo elements)

Originally posted by baphamet

 

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Originally posted by Zezda

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Originally posted by baphamet  

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Originally posted by Zezda  So in a few short paragraphs I've basically demonstrated how the games really are nothing alike in many ways and shows how PoE is built upon D2's basic premise, yet that fact does not make it a 'clone' in any way. Sure on the surface to someone who doesn't know any better they might look exactly the same but if you want to take such a broad look that you could say PoE is a clone of D2 then just about any game in the same genre as something else is also a 'clone' of whatever came before it. At that point you're trying to argue that the only innovative games are the ones that are responsible for creating genres themselves and that's just asinine.

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  you have proven absolutely nothing other than your ability to blindly defend something that dos not need defending. honestly, if you don't think this game is a diablo 2 clone, you are hopeless lol i mean, i get that it has a few different aspects and some people like the few things they changed. but this game has act 1 -4, waypoints, town portals, the same combat mechanics, a lot of the same item modifications, the same dark theme, the same style of characters and character select, virtually the same exact UI and inventory panel, same monster and elite monster mechanics with random properties, the list goes on and on..... you can tell that their goal was to make a game just like diablo but with their own twist on it. yet this isn't a diablo clone? LMAO!!! that is funny shit. if this isn't a diablo clone than there just isn't any clones out there at all. its a good game but overall it is not innovative when you copy another game like POE did, just because it has a few different features.    

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You can continue to stick your fingers in your ears and repeat the same stuff over and over but how about you demonstrate and show us what features from D2 the game has 'carbon copied' as you put it in another post and explain why, on a fundamental level, this means the game is the same as D2?

 

I like how you didn't actually answer or respond to any of the feature differences I pointed out or try to discredit why they aren't important differences. In fact the only thing you've actually said is 'Yes.. well.. it has some differences, but not that many that it isn't a clone!!!!'.

You're quick enough to lie and stretch the truth to try make your argument seem more credible that's for sure. The game has 3 acts, not 4, and the third was only added very recently. A LOT of other games are split into 'Acts' as well, Discworld and Grim Fandango come to mind, did D2 copy them? Games have had some form of waypoint system to save progress and have had for decades! Lots of other games share similar character selection processes and inventory screens to what is in D2 as well, did D2 clone those games? Having monsters with random properties is not a new thing either, D2 didn't invent that. And even if it did the monster mechanics are most certainly *not* the same in PoE.

If PoE is as much of a clone as D2 then please explain to us all how the basic elements of gameplay like Economy, Combat Mechanics, Skill selection, Progression, End game content and customisation of characters is a copy of D2.

 

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ive already answered you multiple times in this thread and the one i created.

explain to me how monster mechanics are not the same? they have the same types of resists to certain elements and special powers that are randomized with auras and such, do they not?

do you not see the direct resemblance to diablo 2 in this game? its comical how badly they ripped off diablo with this game.

yes they added some new things and if you enjoy it right on! but to blindly defend it and pretend its just its own original game, its kind of mind blowing.

i am not going to keep arguing with you about this, you can just keep calling me a liar if it helps you cope.

 

 

You keep avoiding giving solid examples to back up your claims, that's my problem. Other than posting a few screenshots of D2 and PoE (from *very* early alpha no less) you've done nothing other than play loose and fast with what you define as 'clone'.

By your definition of what you are calling a clone just about every single game in any given genre is a clone of the first.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

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Originally posted by Adhesive33

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Originally posted by baphamet  

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Originally posted by Shadlor I feel  i must ,   add to the innovations   & adeptations ,conversation   We are talking about  innovations to the ARPG gerne Currency , removed in place of a monotized , / valued set of  items , NEW! Passive skill tree , in which  the 6 classes are free , to inter build amoungest eachother . NEW! The Skill Gem / Support Gem system , NEW! The Flask System . NEW! The Endgame Map System , NEW!   That is 5 items new to the genre , That is what we call innovation , bringing something otherwise unseen to a culture or sociity.   The  websters diffanition of innovation 1 : the introduction of something new   I  await  your  response

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  i am not saying it brings nothing new at all, if you read my original response i say it gets a 5 at best for those "new" things they brought to their version of diablo. this is not just a game similar to diablo, it is exactly like diablo with a few new features added in. make no mistake, i am not trying to trash this game because its a diablo rip off, i think its a good game, especially for a completely unrestricted free game. but overall this game is far from innovative when most of it is a direct diablo rip off.  

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The genre as a whole is very narrow. I definitely agree that PoE is a Diablo-clone, but what dungeon-crawl ARPG isn't? More importantly, is there another ARPG out there that is more innovative than PoE? I've played them all, and I don't think any have made as many "game-changing" tweaks to the core mechanics as PoE, especially changes that made me think "ah ha, so that's how it should be done." I think it's safe to call PoE an innovative game for the genre.

 

Anyway, the funny part about it is that I think the creators are perfectly happy to hav their game be called a Diablo-clone. They were Diablo fans who set out to make a Diablo-clone that they'd enjoy playing themselves, and I just fortunately happen to share their exact same tastes when it comes to dungeon crawling, so it worked out really well for me. =)

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I just have a problem with saying this game is innovative just because they added a few innovative features.

by the way i am downloading the marvel heroes beta, judging from the youtube videos that is an example of an ARPG that is not a clone like this.

How can you say it's not innovative if it 'only added a few innovate features'?

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Originally posted by Zezda

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Originally posted by baphamet  

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Originally posted by Adhesive33

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Originally posted by baphamet  

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Originally posted by Shadlor I feel  i must ,   add to the innovations   & adeptations ,conversation   We are talking about  innovations to the ARPG gerne Currency , removed in place of a monotized , / valued set of  items , NEW! Passive skill tree , in which  the 6 classes are free , to inter build amoungest eachother . NEW! The Skill Gem / Support Gem system , NEW! The Flask System . NEW! The Endgame Map System , NEW!   That is 5 items new to the genre , That is what we call innovation , bringing something otherwise unseen to a culture or sociity.   The  websters diffanition of innovation 1 : the introduction of something new   I  await  your  response

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  i am not saying it brings nothing new at all, if you read my original response i say it gets a 5 at best for those "new" things they brought to their version of diablo. this is not just a game similar to diablo, it is exactly like diablo with a few new features added in. make no mistake, i am not trying to trash this game because its a diablo rip off, i think its a good game, especially for a completely unrestricted free game. but overall this game is far from innovative when most of it is a direct diablo rip off.  

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The genre as a whole is very narrow. I definitely agree that PoE is a Diablo-clone, but what dungeon-crawl ARPG isn't? More importantly, is there another ARPG out there that is more innovative than PoE? I've played them all, and I don't think any have made as many "game-changing" tweaks to the core mechanics as PoE, especially changes that made me think "ah ha, so that's how it should be done." I think it's safe to call PoE an innovative game for the genre.   Anyway, the funny part about it is that I think the creators are perfectly happy to hav their game be called a Diablo-clone. They were Diablo fans who set out to make a Diablo-clone that they'd enjoy playing themselves, and I just fortunately happen to share their exact same tastes when it comes to dungeon crawling, so it worked out really well for me. =)

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    I just have a problem with saying this game is innovative just because they added a few innovative features. by the way i am downloading the marvel heroes beta, judging from the youtube videos that is an example of an ARPG that is not a clone like this.

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How can you say it's not innovative if it 'only added a few innovate features'?

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as a whole no, it is not innovative because they added a few innovative features to a diablo game then slapped the POE label on it lol

using that logic, SWTOR was innovative as well? even though that game is far less of a wow clone as this is a diablo clone

as far as my screen shots i posted in the other thread which you tried to dismiss....are you telling me the inventory panel doesn't still look like that?

the UI and inventory pannel in POE looks more like D2 than D3 looks like D2

are you actually trying to tell me that the look and feel of the game isn't exactly like diablo?

other than the lore it is diablo, period. what proof do you want me to give you? other than the vast list of things i have mentioned several times?

i am done arguing it with you, if you think this game is nothing like diablo then by all means think that all you want.

while you are at it you can believe in santa clause and the tooth fairy as well, nobody can prove you wrong with solid evidence, amirite?

as i said, i would give this game about a 5 at best for innovation, which is a score purely based off of the few innovative things they added, because the rest of the game is a pure diablo rip off, a pretty good one too as i have already mentioned.

Originally posted by baphamet

as a whole no, it is not innovative because they added a few innovative features to a diablo game then slapped the POE label on it lol

using that logic, SWTOR was innovative as well? even though that game is far less of a wow clone as this is a diablo clone

as far as my screen shots i posted in the other thread which you tried to dismiss....are you telling me the inventory panel doesn't still look like that?

the UI and inventory pannel in POE looks more like D2 than D3 looks like D2

are you actually trying to tell me that the look and feel of the game isn't exactly like diablo?

other than the lore it is diablo, period. what proof do you want me to give you? other than the vast list of things i have mentioned several times?

i am done arguing it with you, if you think this game is nothing like diablo then by all means think that all you want.

while you are at it you can believe in santa clause and the tooth fairy as well, nobody can prove you wrong with solid evidence, amirite?

as i said, i would give this game about a 5 at best for innovation, which is a score purely based off of the few innovative things they added, because the rest of the game is a pure diablo rip off, a pretty good one too as i have already mentioned.

Basically you consider it a diablo clone because it looks like diablo?   I really wouldn't consider the aesthetics of a game to be the defining factor, but to each his own. 

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Originally posted by thinktank001

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Originally posted by baphamet as a whole no, it is not innovative because they added a few innovative features to a diablo game then slapped the POE label on it lol using that logic, SWTOR was innovative as well? even though that game is far less of a wow clone as this is a diablo clone as far as my screen shots i posted in the other thread which you tried to dismiss....are you telling me the inventory panel doesn't still look like that? the UI and inventory pannel in POE looks more like D2 than D3 looks like D2 are you actually trying to tell me that the look and feel of the game isn't exactly like diablo? other than the lore it is diablo, period. what proof do you want me to give you? other than the vast list of things i have mentioned several times? i am done arguing it with you, if you think this game is nothing like diablo then by all means think that all you want. while you are at it you can believe in santa clause and the tooth fairy as well, nobody can prove you wrong with solid evidence, amirite? as i said, i would give this game about a 5 at best for innovation, which is a score purely based off of the few innovative things they added, because the rest of the game is a pure diablo rip off, a pretty good one too as i have already mentioned.

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Basically you consider it a diablo clone because it looks like diablo?  I really wouldn't consider the aesthetics of a game to be the defining factor, but to each his own. 

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yes but that isn't the only reason, far from it. there are only a few things that separates this game from the diablo series, this game is more like diablo than D3 in many ways.

the combat mechanics, the layout of the maps with way points, town portals, mini bosses with the same kind of randomized special abilities and resistance mechanics, the content is separated in chapters in the exact same manner (acts)

i can go on and on.....

on top of that the look and feel of the game is 100% diablo just with different lore.

it seems they purposely made their own version of diablo, not just a game in the same genre.

IMO for that reason this game is just not very innovative as a whole, even though it does have a few innovative features they added to the diablo series then slapped the POE label onto it :)