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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Should MMOs remove the death penalty?

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208 posts found
  TheScavenger

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 694

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

 
OP  2/12/13 5:06:11 PM#1

Should MMOs remove the death penalty? It never really made sense to me. Especially in the older MMOs.

 

You are dead! Lose 25% of your stats and/or skills! (usually a debuff for x amount of minutes or needing to earn x amount of exp/kill x amount of monsters to remove it)

 

This never made sense. Okay, so I die...I lose 25% of my ability...how am I supposed to kill anything to remove the debuff? Even if it is just 30 minutes...that just means I can't play for 30 minutes? Especially since most MMOs penalize you for killing weaker stuff than your level/skill...so...this seems very counter beneficial

 

Then if all your gear is damaged...how are you supposed to continue in a dungeon or a raid or do anything? gear is very important in almost all MMOs...I guess go and repair it...but usually...ESPECIALLY for tanks...its so expensive, sometimes you cant even afford to repair it all.

 

And then it runs into the same problem as losing stats/skills...but even worse...because gear is usually way more important...so without fully repaired items, again...you are penalized so much, you can't do anything.

 

So going back to the original question...should MMOs remove the death penalty? Or, at least change it to something that still lets you...you know...still play the game even if you die?

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  supertouchme

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/10/08
Posts: 69

2/12/13 5:08:36 PM#2
no
  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5551

2/12/13 5:10:32 PM#3

Oh no, the death penalty debate.

 

I think harsh death penalties work well in some games and not in others. For example, an extremely harsh death penalty in WoW would be silly (and is silly right now) in my opinion while in EVE it's part of what makes the game special and contributes to the economy in a meaningful way.

 

Different game design concepts demand different types of death penalty. In my opinion at least, the only wrong answer here is that one is better than the other.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  DamonVile

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4875

2/12/13 5:14:48 PM#4

For the most part removing the death penalty has made acomplishing anything trivial. When you have an endless number of chances and an unlimited amount of time to do something, it's not much of anything when you finally do it....or at least I would hope for your sake it isn't.

The more a DP hurts the more frustrating it is when you fail but the greater the sense of acomplishment when you actually manage to do it. I think that sense of accomplishment has sort of gone from mmos now though. Now it's more about casual wasting of time.

Good for some bad for others I guess.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2347

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

2/12/13 5:14:49 PM#5
Originally posted by supertouchme
no

/thread

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  craftseeker

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/09
Posts: 632

2/12/13 5:15:33 PM#6
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Should MMOs remove the death penalty? It never really made sense to me. Especially in the older MMOs.

You are dead! Lose 25% of your stats and/or skills! (usually a debuff for x amount of minutes or needing to earn x amount of exp/kill x amount of monsters to remove it)

This never made sense. Okay, so I die...I lose 25% of my ability...how am I supposed to kill anything to remove the debuff? Even if it is just 30 minutes...that just means I can't play for 30 minutes? Especially since most MMOs penalize you for killing weaker stuff than your level/skill...so...this seems very counter beneficial

Then if all your gear is damaged...how are you supposed to continue in a dungeon or a raid or do anything? gear is very important in almost all MMOs...I guess go and repair it...but usually...ESPECIALLY for tanks...its so expensive, sometimes you cant even afford to repair it all.

And then it runs into the same problem as losing stats/skills...but even worse...because gear is usually way more important...so without fully repaired items, again...you are penalized so much, you can't do anything.

So going back to the original question...should MMOs remove the death penalty? Or, at least change it to something that still lets you...you know...still play the game even if you die?

You are overstating the penalties of dying in MMO's today as an argument for removing penalties entirely.  Most MMO's alow you to die multiple times, as many as ten times, before your gear becomes unusable.  As to the 25% 30 minutes thing, what game is that from?  Most games have lower skill/hp drops than that or shoter time periods or both.

As for death penalties at all, you just died dude.  Most people kind of stop entirely when they are dead, so why not have at least a token penalty in game for a character death.

You could also try Planeshift, in that game when you die you go somewhere else and have to quest your way back to life.

  TheScavenger

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 694

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

 
OP  2/12/13 5:18:46 PM#7

Going to the afterlife and having to fight/quest/explore your way out, sounds far better than losing a bunch of stats and gear.

 

However, this topic more implies to themepark MMOs. Sandbox MMOs need gear loss (if they don't they suck), and harsh death penalties...that is just in their nature. Themepark MMOs rely too much on levels/stats and gear for these kind of penalties to work.

 

I would like a modern themepark mmo to have an afterlife thing. WoW you run as a ghost to your corpse, which was cool but not really what I had in mind as far as afterlife goes...penalties were far too high though.

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  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1266

2/12/13 5:25:27 PM#8

I thought they already removed the death penalty from MMOs back in 2006.

 

If it was up to me, there would be no death penalty up to level 15. After than, it's 30%+ XP loss as well as durability loss as well as a respawn in your faction's main city (unless revived by a teammate). There will also be a little bit of coin loss to compensate the body pickup and treatment.

  supertouchme

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/10/08
Posts: 69

2/12/13 5:25:30 PM#9
penalties in wow were too high? you simply came back as a ghost and ran to your corpse without risk of being harmed. the only ones who really experienced significant penalties were raiders who incurred substantial repair costs and had to farm for gold.
  aylwynn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/09/13
Posts: 95

2/12/13 5:28:36 PM#10

No. Death penalities should stay.

You need challange and consequence in a decent mmorpg.

Your hero's death is failure. The death penalty says you: Do it better next time by using a different tactic. You don't even need a reward for staying alive because you get enough rewards in recent MMORPGs.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17288

2/12/13 5:30:40 PM#11
Originally posted by dave6660
Originally posted by supertouchme
no

/thread

This. if there is no death penalty then why even have your character fall at all? Just make it be players burning down the enemy and then opening the chest at the end.

I will agreee that some death penalties don't make sense, especially penalties that remove the player from playing and make him wait until some debuff lifts.

I'd rather lose xp.

 

  StonesDK

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/11
Posts: 1836

2/12/13 5:31:19 PM#12
I thougth they already did years ago. Death is now a means of transportation
  Nibs

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/26/04
Posts: 198

2/12/13 5:33:08 PM#13

Without a death penalty where's the risk in combat?

Without a death penalty death just becomes another means of fast travel (it already is in WoW).

Without a death penalty where's the rush from surviving an epic fight?

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12383

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

2/12/13 6:00:59 PM#14
Originally posted by TheScavenger

So going back to the original question...should MMOs remove the death penalty? Or, at least change it to something that still lets you...you know...still play the game even if you die?

The question makes as much sense as "Should MMOs remove chickens?"

So, to answer your question:

Not all MMOs have chickens.

In some MMOs, chickens really enhance the environment.

In others, the chickens are out of place.

In some MMOs, the chickens are just plain annoying.

 

I'd say the presence or absence of chickens should depend entirely on the type of MMO and the interest of the MMOs target audience.

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  User Deleted
2/12/13 6:33:39 PM#15
Well, in the next WoW patch, in the Raid Finder encounters only (i.e. PUGS), there will be a death BUFF! Does that count as removing the death penalty?
  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5576

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

2/12/13 7:00:26 PM#16
Depends entirely of the game. It doesn't have an effect on me, but I know some get a kick out of it. I don't like the effect it has on people in PvP though.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  cybertrucker

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1127

Freeloading mooches are the scourge of the gaming community.

2/12/13 7:03:23 PM#17

No.

how about a big game over sign instead.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4699

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

2/12/13 7:06:29 PM#18
OP I will point out in the most honest way possible why it makes no sense to you: you're looking at it wrong. "So I died...I lose 25% xp...how am I supposed to kill anything". whoa whoa whoa. you started at death ? let's back up another 3 minutes. you're alive. you're seeing a pack of wolves. Do you engage ? it's an important question because you might die and lose 25% xp and run into the problem you stated. why should you fight them? what are the odds you'll win? what are the risks? do you know these wolves well? are you risking it ? is it worth it ? if no death penalty...run in, die, respawn, kill survivors. Booooooring

  hraeth

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/07
Posts: 34

2/12/13 7:19:15 PM#19
Personally, I prefer games with a good, sold, in your face, death penalty.  Challenge is reduced without death penalties.  Dying becomes a valid play mechanic in some cases without a death penalty.  If you think it doesn't make sens that you're penalized for dying consider how much less sense it makes that you are alive again...  While death penalties may be out of place in games built for relaxed and easy play any game that wants to take it's game play seriously (rather than the slapstick of run in, hit mob, die, run in, hit mob, die, repeat until mob is dead... profit) will need some kind of penalty for dying.
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4843

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

2/12/13 7:21:08 PM#20
Originally posted by Robokapp
OP I will point out in the most honest way possible why it makes no sense to you: you're looking at it wrong. "So I died...I lose 25% xp...how am I supposed to kill anything". whoa whoa whoa. you started at death ? let's back up another 3 minutes. you're alive. you're seeing a pack of wolves. Do you engage ? it's an important question because you might die and lose 25% xp and run into the problem you stated. why should you fight them? what are the odds you'll win? what are the risks? do you know these wolves well? are you risking it ? is it worth it ? if no death penalty...run in, die, respawn, kill survivors. Booooooring

 You mean you don't do that anyway, regardless if there is a penalty or not?

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

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