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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » NW: massively first impressions, worthy of being DDO2

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47 posts found
  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

 
OP  2/11/13 9:59:17 AM#1

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/11/first-impressions-of-neverwinter-beta/

Summary:

I would say that if you like DDO, you're going to love Neverwinter because it seems as if it could just be called DDO 2 at this point. And that's a good thing.

Pros

  • Strong focus on player-driven content
  • Gorgeous art style
  • Events are well-organized and easy to join
  • Extensive currency system
  • Exploring is rewarded
  • Puzzles and hidden rooms!
Cons
  • Clunky combat
  • Dated character models
  • Linear default storyline
 
---------------------------------------
 
edit
- fixed the title 
- the "I" in the summary is not me
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6482

2/11/13 10:16:02 AM#2
Originally posted by Nadia

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/11/first-impressions-of-neverwinter-beta/

Summary:

I would say that if you like DDO, you're going to love Neverwinter because it seems as if it could just be called DDO 2 at this point. And that's a good thing.

Pros

  • Strong focus on player-driven content
  • Gorgeous art style
  • Events are well-organized and easy to join
  • Extensive currency system
  • Exploring is rewarded
  • Puzzles and hidden rooms!
Cons
  • Clunky combat
  • Dated character models
  • Linear default storyline

What I like about DDO is the D&D class/skill progression. It doesn't seem like NW has that sort of depth.I could be wrong though. I'll check at launch. 

 

ot - clunky when used without further explanation should be infractable. 

edit- explanation in article.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

 
OP  2/11/13 10:22:04 AM#3
Originally posted by bcbully

ot - clunky when used without further explanation should be infractable. 

the article describes why they summarized that

 

from same link,  4 reasons why they described combat as "clunky"

=====================================================

First of all, I understand and respect the fact that the combat was created to be action-based with a reticle and aim-to-hit primary attacks. But you can't have this type of set-up if the reaction time of your skills is clunky and delayed. Double-tapping to dodge away from attacks works wonderfully in games like Guild Wars 2, but not in Neverwinter. Even that split second delay in your character's reaction due to a drawn-out dodge animation can cause some serious grief.

On top of that, you can just go ahead and say goodbye to your hotbar friends 1,2,3,4,5, and 6; your new friends Q, E, R, Tab, left mouse button, and right mouse button are setting up shop. I'm not as bothered by these nontraditional keys because you can easily rebind them in the options, but I thought I'd warn you.

Strafing is also noticeably absent, which takes quite a bit away from the dynamic of combat, especially in ranged classes. I want to fire off daggers at that orc while running for cover behind that crate over there, not be frozen to the ground with a big target painted on my forehead.

That brings me to my final gripe about combat: auto targeting. It took me a few battles to realize that I was being assisted by the gods (i.e., a magnetic force that brought my reticle right over the baddies every time), but I felt that it was a bit too much in the hand-holding department. I will admit, I did enjoy the fact that I was automatically spun around to face the target each time, avoiding those annoying warnings you see in other games when you're not at the exact correct angle to your enemy. I guess it's give-and-take.

 

 

  sea.shell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/13
Posts: 63

2/11/13 10:29:25 AM#4

You can't blindfire powers as they need a valid "target". (not the mouse attacks / daily)
The magnetic aim help is more about a different way to "TAB TARGET" than actually helping you aim.

Playing: EVE Online
Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

  Metanol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/20/05
Posts: 237

2/11/13 11:55:11 AM#5

It is sad that I must resolt to repeating the same tune, but I would not link Neverwinter the MMO to DDO in any way. Usually when game series progress, they make advancement and progress in terms of depth, customization and freedom.

I've never respected Joystiq and will once again disagree quite heavily here.

 

So, where should I start? Lets leave this short and stick to these two points. We could mention gameplay mechanics what differ completely, but this is not worth my while.

Customization, yes.. in terms of gameplay mechanics, not visual customization of character.

DDO allowed multiclassing and launched with 9 classes total. This alone beats the Neverwinter's 5 class system, which has restricted weapons and gear by class (Give me a valid explanation why a Guardian fighter can't equip equal heavy armor greaves which just say "restricted to great weapon fighter".)

DDO was more marketed with the phrase Dungeons & Dragons, while Neverwinter is sold as.. well, just Neverwinter. And this shows - Neverwinter has took a step far away from D&D rules, lets not go into details here, but lets say that DDO is closer to a "true D&D experience."

 

Puzzles & Traps & Secrets

Of course we have not seen much, but the few puzzles and traps what have been shown in Closed Beta gameplay videos, look just terrible. Where's the secret or the exploration, if it's an empty cavern, with one bookshelf at the end (with a Shining book glowing in the middle like a road flare)

DDO's path might have been a bit too hardcore. They brought in the skills from 3rd edition. Anyone who had enough Search / Spot / Listen skill could find secret doors and spot traps.

 

Conclusion

While Neverwinter will probably be a larger commercial success than DDO, it has no right what-so-ever to be called a "DDO2". The gameplay is completely different, as is the company which made it. The whole theme and the idea is different.

We´re all dead, just say it.

  Falcomith

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/09
Posts: 793

2/11/13 12:18:25 PM#6
Originally posted by Metanol

 

 

Puzzles & Traps & Secrets

Of course we have not seen much, but the few puzzles and traps what have been shown in Closed Beta gameplay videos, look just terrible. Where's the secret or the exploration, if it's an empty cavern, with one bookshelf at the end (with a Shining book glowing in the middle like a road flare)

DDO's path might have been a bit too hardcore. They brought in the skills from 3rd edition. Anyone who had enough Search / Spot / Listen skill could find secret doors and spot traps.

 

Conclusion

While Neverwinter will probably be a larger commercial success than DDO, it has no right what-so-ever to be called a "DDO2". The gameplay is completely different, as is the company which made it. The whole theme and the idea is different.

Just want to mention about the the traps as I have played in the past beta weekend. Traps are more noticable when playing a rogue. They sparkle. Rogues can disarm them.

I went back into the same area with my Cleric, and I totally forgot about the traps and got nailed by just about everyone of them. 

As far as the secret book case with the skull, that can only be opened by the warrior as they use a dungeonering skill. Or if playing another class you can use the dungeonerring item, which can drop or be purchased, that allows you to open as many as you want in 3 mins. But by the time you find the next one, if there is one, your 3 min period is up.

 

NVW wont be for everyone. I'd say any hardcore D&D people will probably like DDO better. But what will keep NVW goinf will be the player created content.

  Metanol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/20/05
Posts: 237

2/11/13 12:48:15 PM#7
Even though I am quite cautiously negative towards Neverwinter, I am actually looking forward to it - but not as a D&D experience of any kind, just an AmmoRPG to play with a few friends.

We´re all dead, just say it.

  Osmanthus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/25/04
Posts: 93

2/11/13 4:23:18 PM#8


Strafing is also noticeably absent 

I think actually you can only strafe, there is no keyboard turn.

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1147

2/11/13 6:41:06 PM#9
You cannot move and attack simultaneously.
  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/11/13 6:45:28 PM#10
Originally posted by grimfall
You cannot move and attack simultaneously.

 yea you can.. even just watch the class trailer for the cleric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVER5rZy-Zs looks like there are skills that root you but you can see some skills allow movement while casting.. from videos i saw lots of skills do lock you in the animation like TERA though so not as free form as GW2

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  SuperNick

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 329

2/11/13 6:49:05 PM#11
Spose it might kill a day or two, which is never a bad thing in this MMO drought.  Seems like they made the right choice with it being completely F2P.
  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1147

2/11/13 7:14:46 PM#12
Aerowyn, they changed that. If you watch any beta footage from this past weekend, you won't see people moving and attacking. The lead goes into some detail about it on the MMORPG.com dungeon playthrough.
  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/11/13 7:15:41 PM#13
Originally posted by grimfall
Aerowyn, they changed that. If you watch any beta footage from this past weekend, you won't see people moving and attacking. The lead goes into some detail about it on the MMORPG.com dungeon playthrough.

odd don't see why they would.. not being able to cast on the run and being locked into the animation was one thing i hated about tera's combat.. hopefully i enjoy this one more

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1843

2/11/13 7:17:31 PM#14
Great...50 bucks well spent then i guess;) really looking forward to dungeon crawling with friends.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Laromuss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 320

2/11/13 7:24:24 PM#15
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimfall
You cannot move and attack simultaneously.

 yea you can.. even just watch the class trailer for the cleric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVER5rZy-Zs looks like there are skills that root you but you can see some skills allow movement while casting.. from videos i saw lots of skills do lock you in the animation like TERA though so not as free form as GW2

I've played up to level 30 (beta cap) on my cleric, and there are very few moves that allow moving and attacking.  The only one I can think of is the Daily Power which is instant but still roots the cleric in place.  Right mouse requires standing, LMB same, Q, W, E , R , etc.   But I will say this becuase we are limited to standing you really have to pay attention during fights and boss fights which makes it a lot more challenging and fun.  But keep in mind this though, it is different on the rogue, he can move a bit while attacking with his main attack which give a bit more mobility.  I played the Rogue up to level 20 and this guy is not your typical rogue, think of him asa a ninja on Roids.  You are able to jump in and take on 5 mobs at the same time and if you are skilled at moving during the fight you won't get hit due to the skills that are given which help avoid damage.  

Even though the characters are rooted in the game, they are all still agile and can move quickly with dodging and don't feel like heavy lumps of coal as they do in TERA which I hate very much.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/11/13 7:32:15 PM#16
Originally posted by Laross
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by grimfall
You cannot move and attack simultaneously.

 yea you can.. even just watch the class trailer for the cleric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVER5rZy-Zs looks like there are skills that root you but you can see some skills allow movement while casting.. from videos i saw lots of skills do lock you in the animation like TERA though so not as free form as GW2

I've played up to level 30 (beta cap) on my cleric, and there are very few moves that allow moving and attacking.  The only one I can think of is the Daily Power which is instant but still roots the cleric in place.  Right mouse requires standing, LMB same, Q, W, E , R , etc.   But I will say this becuase we are limited to standing you really have to pay attention during fights and boss fights which makes it a lot more challenging and fun.  But keep in mind this though, it is different on the rogue, he can move a bit while attacking with his main attack which give a bit more mobility.  I played the Rogue up to level 20 and this guy is not your typical rogue, think of him asa a ninja on Roids.  You are able to jump in and take on 5 mobs at the same time and if you are skilled at moving during the fight you won't get hit due to the skills that are given which help avoid damage.  

Even though the characters are rooted in the game, they are all still agile and can move quickly with dodging and don't feel like heavy lumps of coal as they do in TERA which I hate very much.

that is very good to know as it's why i could never get into TERA combat really at all

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Mesamhain

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/04
Posts: 4

2/11/13 7:42:08 PM#17

I myself enjoyed the beta immensly. It was just like 4th edition but for some reason it seemed to flow better as a video game instead of PnP. The cleric was a blast and the rogue was a total little damage machine. If you go into this game with any kind of expectation that it will play like another you WILL be disappointed.

I liked the mechanics a lot. I was able to concentrate on the battle itself and not have to look at my HUD. It felt natural. As far as people trying to compare this to DDO, dont. They are two separate games that only share the DND universe together. There is great things about both games, but they are two different worlds, two different styles and frankly two different games. 

The game style is amazing. it is not realistic yet not too cartoony like WoW either. it  is a nice cross. to me it looks like GW2's style. My hope is that they will have more choices for the character generator. As it is now they are seeverely lacking compared to all other Cryptic games.

It is a very light program, maybe 7 gigs or so. Ran at almost 75fps constantly even when surrounded by a bunch of people and during the boss battles in dungeons. ( my comp is no where near top of the line anymore either.)

try the game it is free to download and free to play when it is released. If you don't like it, don't play it. That simple. But do not compare it to another game and try to say it sucks when all you have seen is it streamed. Open your mind and play for the game for what it is and it may suprise you.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3070

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

2/11/13 7:43:02 PM#18

Really don't like the "NWN" in the title..


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Laromuss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 320

2/11/13 7:45:50 PM#19
Originally posted by Nitth

Really don't like the "NWN" in the title..

its NeverWinter (NW)  not Neverwinter Nights (NWN)

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

2/11/13 7:49:49 PM#20
Originally posted by Mesamhain

I myself enjoyed the beta immensly. It was just like 4th edition but for some reason it seemed to flow better as a video game instead of PnP. The cleric was a blast and the rogue was a total little damage machine. If you go into this game with any kind of expectation that it will play like another you WILL be disappointed.

I liked the mechanics a lot. I was able to concentrate on the battle itself and not have to look at my HUD. It felt natural. As far as people trying to compare this to DDO, dont. They are two separate games that only share the DND universe together. There is great things about both games, but they are two different worlds, two different styles and frankly two different games. 

The game style is amazing. it is not realistic yet not too cartoony like WoW either. it  is a nice cross. to me it looks like GW2's style. My hope is that they will have more choices for the character generator. As it is now they are seeverely lacking compared to all other Cryptic games.

It is a very light program, maybe 7 gigs or so. Ran at almost 75fps constantly even when surrounded by a bunch of people and during the boss battles in dungeons. ( my comp is no where near top of the line anymore either.)

try the game it is free to download and free to play when it is released. If you don't like it, don't play it. That simple. But do not compare it to another game and try to say it sucks when all you have seen is it streamed. Open your mind and play for the game for what it is and it may suprise you.

generally my philosophy with all new games I'm interested in :) has worked at well so far.. when you go in expecting exactly something you got stuck in your head that a game is about or has or will do for you,  you are setting yourself up for failure and overly biased views on the game.. I don't ever put high expectations on new games and find this works out best

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

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