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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » Beta Review - Guardian Fighter Centric

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36 posts found
  User Deleted
2/11/13 6:08:42 AM#21
Originally posted by Eivi
No NDA and pushing for Facebook posts? i know its for marketing reasons. But seems fairly progressive. I must say that i approve.

 The game is pretty much ready to launch. I don't think they really have anything to hide.

  sibs4455

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/08
Posts: 346

2/11/13 6:29:58 AM#22
Does the game have the same storyline / trap placements / mob placements etc for each class you play?.
  sketocafe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 466

2/11/13 6:48:56 AM#23

Thanks for this, though I'm afraid I might have to lower my expectations based on it.

One thing that confuses me is the level numbers you're saying. Like you have a 27 whatever and get mounts at 20. Am I completely wrong about how levels work in DnD now or does this game not mesh up with it? Last I heard you were pretty much godlike if you made it to level 20, and would be hanging out with Gods and Powers and shit, instead of some woods. What's the deal here? Does it hold to DnD levels and I'm out of date or is it just a "have a level so you can feel progression because your number went up," type thing?

  Metanol

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/20/05
Posts: 237

2/11/13 7:15:05 AM#24
Originally posted by sketocafe

Thanks for this, though I'm afraid I might have to lower my expectations based on it.

One thing that confuses me is the level numbers you're saying. Like you have a 27 whatever and get mounts at 20. Am I completely wrong about how levels work in DnD now or does this game not mesh up with it? Last I heard you were pretty much godlike if you made it to level 20, and would be hanging out with Gods and Powers and shit, instead of some woods. What's the deal here? Does it hold to DnD levels and I'm out of date or is it just a "have a level so you can feel progression because your number went up," type thing?

This game has nothing to do with D&D level scale. Because, as we all know, having only 20 (or by the gods, 30?) levels would be boring. So, now it's 50+ levels and WoW-like talent trees (called Feats, which you gain one per level, if I understood right.)

 

Originally posted by Fendel84M

DDO is also an incredibly boring game beyond the character sheet, and set in a god awful campaign setting. Whoever thought Eberron would be a cool DnD MMO world was smoking crack. And a lot of the mechanics were just fluff, not even fluff they were just nothing. My brother got into it some how, and I saw him playing one day and he had his second monitor showing a map of all the traps in the dungeon. I said "Why do you have a map showing you all the traps, you're a rogue right?" he responded "ya but this works better, spotting the traps in game is broken." The multi-classing was neat but most often times you were just gimping yourself and the game was completely bloated with useless skills and points that never should have been put into an MMO.

Also, Neverwinter is not claiming to be Dungeons and Dragons Online. They are claiming to be an Action MMORPG set in the Forgotten Realms using a loosely adapted 4e ruleset. And it does exactly what they advertise, I had a lot of fun over the weekend.

The action in Neverwinter is soooo unbelievabley fun compared to DDO its disgusting btw.

DDO has major flaws, agreed and I completely agree with the Eberon-issue.

However! I have never heard of any rogue having trouble with detecting traps and I believe I would, I mean, I've played since Closed Beta in EU. If you use third party knowledge (wiki with maps for chests & traps), then that's your playstyle. Same thing can be used for any sngleplayer game, such as Baldur's Gate, but it removes all the challenge and makes the game simple go to point X, gather, proceed, which... well, if that's the way your brother likes to play, cool for him. Personally, I like challenges to be presented to me in-game, rather than looking them up on wiki and being "Oh, before you step in, cast a fire resistance and just walk left through the maze."

Neverwinter is not claiming to be Dungeons and Dragons online? Well, what's the text "Dungeons & Dragons" infront of it then? I understand very well that they are making an AmmoRPG and throwing the D&D rules out of the window, but that's the issue here. They could've, in the opinion of many D&D fans, done so much more with what they were given, instead they give us this.

I cannot of course comment on Neverwinter's gameplay, but I quite enjoyed playing DDO in a working party or with just two friends + hirelings. It had the D&D mechanics implemented well enough, even though they took their own freedom with the ruleset. I actually don't see what's so boring with it, except for the slowing progress around levels 12+.

Also, last but not least, I would argue against your knowledge of the game. I would say that no skill was useless. Diplomacy, Balance, Jump, Tumble and such were even usable in combat. Even Bluff was used by smart rogues and multiclassing was a -very- valid option, ask all those rogue/wizards for example! Or all those small splashes of monk, paladin, sorc etc. Now, they tried to give single classes something to look forward to (capstones and specific class x level requirement enhancements), but it was still a very wise option to consider multiclassing, if you knew what you wanted to play.

 

Originally posted by Fendel84M
Lastly, there are no Barbarians in Neverwinter(yet). And how does not having items requiring identification make more sense if by your logic some classes are too dumb to even read a scroll? How are they supposed to know what a magical object is right away if they can't even manage to read?

And thus you make my point. It makes no sense, if you respect Forgotten Realms lore (or what they made of it...) to give -everyone- the ability to use these scrolls. Now, I can't be sure, but in old AD&D editions warriors and the like could not use scrolls, in 3rd edition there was the skill "use magic device" for classes, which would not know the spell, to try and use the scroll.

Here comes the immersion vs gameplay problem, what MMOs have never cared about in this regard. There are no cursed items, what do something negative, without giving a warning text when you equip them. All loot is immediately identified. Even the Neverwinter Nights option of taking all unidentified items to store and hitting "identify" button would be a better version than these identification scrolls.

Eventually this last topic comes down to personal preference. But I say you don't do anything half-way.. If you want an identification system, go all out with it, if not - then don't give us a pointless cash sink obstacle which acts merely as a speed bump.

We´re all dead, just say it.

  Kaerigan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/06
Posts: 712

2/11/13 7:34:06 AM#25
Originally posted by Metanol
Originally posted by sketocafe

Thanks for this, though I'm afraid I might have to lower my expectations based on it.

One thing that confuses me is the level numbers you're saying. Like you have a 27 whatever and get mounts at 20. Am I completely wrong about how levels work in DnD now or does this game not mesh up with it? Last I heard you were pretty much godlike if you made it to level 20, and would be hanging out with Gods and Powers and shit, instead of some woods. What's the deal here? Does it hold to DnD levels and I'm out of date or is it just a "have a level so you can feel progression because your number went up," type thing?

This game has nothing to do with D&D level scale. Because, as we all know, having only 20 (or by the gods, 30?) levels would be boring. So, now it's 50 levels and WoW-like talent trees (called Feats, which you gain one per level, if I understood right.)

The 60 levels in Neverwinter mirror the 20 in D&D, or so they said in the MMORPG.com Neverwinter stream last week (meaning, 1 level in Neverwinter equals 1/3 of a level in D&D). I think it's pretty dumb, but on the other hand, it's pretty satisfying to level up.

<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>

  HorrorScope

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 610

2/11/13 10:11:20 AM#26
FWIW NDA is still on for Alpha Testers. No NDA for Closed Testers. But why do we have to police ourselves? If any company has an issue with someone breaking NDA, they can take the time to take care of it. It always comes of as jelly from the one fan saying to the other "NDA!!!!".
  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1272

2/11/13 11:26:48 AM#27
Woah this doesnt sound much like an MMO. I cant believe they went diablo clickfest animation lock combat. Lol this sounds like everything I don't want in an MMO. Quest hubs, no exp for killing mobs, solo centric, made by Cryptic. This doesnt even sound like it would be worth the effort to download. Thanks for the info OP.
  Osmanthus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/25/04
Posts: 93

2/11/13 4:18:43 PM#28

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.  The game is not anything like Diablo.  It is an MMO. 

You can meet people in more places than just the city.

Also, its a Beta! Not finished!

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1147

 
OP  2/11/13 6:30:35 PM#29
Osmanthus, please read more carefully... no one said what you're purporting.
  HorrorScope

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 610

2/12/13 11:39:29 AM#30
Originally posted by Osmanthus

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.  The game is not anything like Diablo.  It is an MMO. 

You can meet people in more places than just the city.

Also, its a Beta! Not finished!

It plays out a lot like a ARPG. Just drop the camera angle and a few other things added.

  Kingmob23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 76

2/14/13 6:52:57 AM#31
Originally posted by HorrorScope
Originally posted by Osmanthus

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.  The game is not anything like Diablo.  It is an MMO. 

You can meet people in more places than just the city.

Also, its a Beta! Not finished!

It plays out a lot like a ARPG. Just drop the camera angle and a few other things added.

It does play like an arpg because it is an arpg but it is nothing like a top down isometric arpg like Diablo. It plays closer to a third person action rpg game like  Kingdoms of Amalur or Mass Effect with swords. You do use your mouse buttons for your primary attacks that is the same way you did it in DDO. I never felt like I was playing Diablo while playing DDO just because I clicked a button on my mouse, and I didn't feel that way while I was playing Neverwinter either.

This game has a lot more depth than D3. It has pretty much all your standard mmo themepark features, although they do need to add more classes quickly. It probably does a better job of presenting the overall story through your questing than games like SWTOR and GW2. And to be honest the soloable content was more interesting to me on average than pretty much any mmo out there, as the grinde quests actually felt like you were on a quest for the most part.

  grimfall

Novice Member

Joined: 4/25/07
Posts: 1147

 
OP  2/15/13 8:58:42 PM#32
Originally posted by Kingmob23
Originally posted by HorrorScope
Originally posted by Osmanthus

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.  The game is not anything like Diablo.  It is an MMO. 

You can meet people in more places than just the city.

Also, its a Beta! Not finished!

It plays out a lot like a ARPG. Just drop the camera angle and a few other things added.

It does play like an arpg because it is an arpg but it is nothing like a top down isometric arpg like Diablo. It plays closer to a third person action rpg game like  Kingdoms of Amalur or Mass Effect with swords. You do use your mouse buttons for your primary attacks that is the same way you did it in DDO. I never felt like I was playing Diablo while playing DDO just because I clicked a button on my mouse, and I didn't feel that way while I was playing Neverwinter either.

This game has a lot more depth than D3. It has pretty much all your standard mmo themepark features, although they do need to add more classes quickly. It probably does a better job of presenting the overall story through your questing than games like SWTOR and GW2. And to be honest the soloable content was more interesting to me on average than pretty much any mmo out there, as the grinde quests actually felt like you were on a quest for the most part.

I think you're confusing graphical perspective with gameplay.

In DDO, can you change the attack mapped to your left mouse key? You can in Diablo 3 (based on skills unlocked as you level) and in Neverwinter (based on skills unlocked as you level).

When I reviewed "Gameplay" is was specifically focused on  combat mechanics.  Perhaps I should have been more clear.  Left click for basic, righ click for alternate attack, that you get more options on as you level.  Some timer cool down special attacks.  No mana pool for basic attacks.  Endurance limit to dodge.  A few special attacks with cool downs. Telegraphed enemy attacks.

The combat mechanics are about 90% similar to D3.   Maybe 10% similar to DDO.

  Kingmob23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 76

2/18/13 4:55:36 AM#33
Originally posted by grimfall
Originally posted by Kingmob23
Originally posted by HorrorScope
Originally posted by Osmanthus

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread.  The game is not anything like Diablo.  It is an MMO. 

You can meet people in more places than just the city.

Also, its a Beta! Not finished!

It plays out a lot like a ARPG. Just drop the camera angle and a few other things added.

It does play like an arpg because it is an arpg but it is nothing like a top down isometric arpg like Diablo. It plays closer to a third person action rpg game like  Kingdoms of Amalur or Mass Effect with swords. You do use your mouse buttons for your primary attacks that is the same way you did it in DDO. I never felt like I was playing Diablo while playing DDO just because I clicked a button on my mouse, and I didn't feel that way while I was playing Neverwinter either.

This game has a lot more depth than D3. It has pretty much all your standard mmo themepark features, although they do need to add more classes quickly. It probably does a better job of presenting the overall story through your questing than games like SWTOR and GW2. And to be honest the soloable content was more interesting to me on average than pretty much any mmo out there, as the grinde quests actually felt like you were on a quest for the most part.

I think you're confusing graphical perspective with gameplay.

In DDO, can you change the attack mapped to your left mouse key? You can in Diablo 3 (based on skills unlocked as you level) and in Neverwinter (based on skills unlocked as you level).

When I reviewed "Gameplay" is was specifically focused on  combat mechanics.  Perhaps I should have been more clear.  Left click for basic, righ click for alternate attack, that you get more options on as you level.  Some timer cool down special attacks.  No mana pool for basic attacks.  Endurance limit to dodge.  A few special attacks with cool downs. Telegraphed enemy attacks.

The combat mechanics are about 90% similar to D3.   Maybe 10% similar to DDO.

 I see what your saying as far as button rotation and resource management relationships go but I think that there is a big difference between top down isometric  diablo style clickathon and a 3rd person action adventure game. The way combat plays out is different. I like both, but I don't think that say KoA and D3 are the same kind of combat experiances, just because they share some arpg tropes.

For me, the visceral experiance of the combat played closer to DDO than D3.

  sea.shell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/13
Posts: 63

2/18/13 5:05:55 AM#34

If i would be forced to draw a connection, i would say it's 0% DDO, 0% Diablo3 and 100% Two Worlds / Risen / gothic / Skyrim / Dragon Age (if you didn't play it top down with pause).

Playing: EVE Online
Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

  Kingmob23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 76

2/18/13 5:41:29 AM#35
Originally posted by sea.shell

If i would be forced to draw a connection, i would say it's 0% DDO, 0% Diablo3 and 100% Two Worlds / Risen / gothic / Skyrim / Dragon Age (if you didn't play it top down with pause).

 

 

I think you could definitely make a connection to those games to Neverwinter, when I started playing the Rogue in Neverwinter the first thing I thought was how similar he felt to playing the Rogue in DA2. I don't know how you can say a zero connection to D3 and DDO though; I can see connections to D3 and DDO to all those games you mentioned and Neverwinter beings that they spring from the same gnere.  I think grimfall's statement that Neverwinter and D3 combat resource management resemble each other to a great degree is hard to argue against.

  sea.shell

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/22/13
Posts: 63

2/18/13 6:43:51 AM#36

I'm not saying it's false, just that it's so generic of an ressource / skill system that it hardly in my opinion accounts for a similarity, especially when everything else plays out different.


While (in my opinion) the course of how a quest plays out in generall feels like those RPG games.
Aside form the different combat (Action combat) i sometimes felt exactly like back in Biowares NWN.
Quests, maps with "useless" rooms and enemies just for kicks and traps :). The cinematic sequences, the dialogues. That all has a hefty RPG tag which outweights the Action combat mechanics similar to D3 or the camera and targeting of DDO.

You feel like running a quest mission of those iconic (singelplayer & multiplayer) RPGs just with action combat.

Playing: EVE Online
Wants to play: ArcheAge, Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance / Star Citizen / FFXIV AAR / Neverwinter

Used to play for 5+ years: Lineage 2, Lord of the Rings Online and Ragnarok Online

Utter disappointing MMO experience for 1 - 3 Months:
WAR / AoC / SWTOR / RIFT / AION / STO / TSW / GW2 / GW / Vanguard / Planetside2

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