Originally posted by Nadia

Fighter. Wizard. Rogue. Ranger. Cleric

- seems reasonable for launch

 

when D&D launched in 1974 as "Men and Magic" it had 3 classes -- fighting man, magic user, cleric

Greyhawk in 1975 added 2 clasees, Paladin and Thief

 

the D&D of today has dozens of classes

as others have posted, more classes will get added to NWN over time

Totaly agree on Nadia post. 

I would rather have new class and races later then having it all at onece,  as also stated D&D have lot of classes today.

All MMORPG`s will ne looked trough WOW, G2, TERA.... cause people with Tunel Vision will always judge before trying but that is how it is. And lets face it there will be no game with more content than WOW EVER cause it is 8 year old game.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Hey look guys, I could care less if another actionRPG MMO tries to grace us with it's presence but don't slap it with a D&D label then insult the fans even more by giving it the Neverwinter name while making the game nothing at all like D&D(any edition).

 

Could you please provide some examples of how you perceive it to have nothing to do with D&D? I am honestly curious as I have not been heavily following the game, but was curious to check it out as I have been a D&D player and fan for a long time. The little I have read says the game is based off the 4th edition rules, which is a version I did not enjoy much, but I did feel like it would lend itself to an MMO well.

Originally posted by SBFord
Neverwinter will launch with five classes as far as we know but if you look at any credible D&D site, there are a ton of other classes that can and undoubtedly will be added. 

Ahh, the proverbial, "don't worry, we'll/they'll add it after launch", line. I never get tired of hearing that...That line was gospel when CO launched.

HAHAHA...yeah...

Originally posted by Brachus

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Hey look guys, I could care less if another actionRPG MMO tries to grace us with it's presence but don't slap it with a D&D label then insult the fans even more by giving it the Neverwinter name while making the game nothing at all like D&D(any edition).

 

Could you please provide some examples of how you perceive it to have nothing to do with D&D? I am honestly curious as I have not been heavily following the game, but was curious to check it out as I have been a D&D player and fan for a long time. The little I have read says the game is based off the 4th edition rules, which is a version I did not enjoy much, but I did feel like it would lend itself to an MMO well.

Firstly, you hit/heal for hundreds of damage at very low level. Dungeons are not crawls at all you just charge through and spam heals and dps for 30 minutes until some magic items pop up on the screen, just like WoW.

There is no unique design for the classes you pick nor multiclassing etc. You can't throw a bow on a fighter and build him like an archer or anything else D&Dish. As someone else mentioned, there's these little gimmick quests that make you feel like a rogue for 30seconds but once you hit a dungeon you just spam dps. This playstyle sound overly familiar? That's because it is. Want a unique character? Too bad you get 5 classes with no half orc or halfling.

This game is literally the textbook MMO that you download and play for one hour then delete. Wizardry style.

As for MMORPG staff reviews, you guys seriously need to step up your game. When you refuse to give a game as bad as FFIV a negative review people just ignore your reviews all together. Take a real look at these games without the rose colored glasses on. There was a point on this website where a mod literally deleted every slightly negative review about GW2 shortly after launch.

@Jimmy:

I wasn't around when FFXIV launched, but one of the first things I did when I took over was get FFXIV reviewed.  

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/reviews/load/147/The-Original-Release-Reviewed.html

We're not perfect, but I think over the past nearly two years since I began as ME, our reviews and reviewers have been getting better and better.  YMMV. But we ARE making a concerted effort always to be honest, fair, and balanced in our reviews, previews, editorials, everything.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

@Jimmy:

I wasn't around when FFXIV launched, but one of the first things I did when I took over was get FFXIV reviewed.  

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/view/reviews/load/147/The-Original-Release-Reviewed.html

We're not perfect, but I think over the past nearly two years since I began as ME, our reviews and reviewers have been getting better and better.  YMMV. But we ARE making a concerted effort always to be honest, fair, and balanced in our reviews, previews, editorials, everything.

 

Bill, gamers are much,more savvy nowadays.  Everyone with MMO experience over the years knew that Star Wars TOR would be the same ol' watered down WoW clone.  And, yet, it gets great reviews by MMORPG and all the other online magazines that depend heavily on ad revenue.  We know how the world works: it's a business oriented world.  Please don't pretend it isn't.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Hey look guys, I could care less if another actionRPG MMO tries to grace us with it's presence but don't slap it with a D&D label then insult the fans even more by giving it the Neverwinter name while making the game nothing at all like D&D(any edition).

 

For the record, DDO made a plethora of empty promises about adding many classes after launch as well. I think the sadest part is that Neverwinter Online is shaping up to be even less true to D&D then DDO, which is a feat in itself. How many fail MMO's that sandbag their own audience does it take before these devs learn.

 

The whole reason the PC Neverwinter series was so popular was because of how close it was to D&D. MMO's obviously have more limitations but that's not a free ticket to take a dump on the fans.

 

RIP Neverwinter series. Oh well maybe Pathfinder has the smarts to pull it off.

DDO is supposed to be 3.5e and took lots of detour since it was released.

NWO use 4e. Cryptic went as far as to implement the classes based on the Player Handbook proposed build.

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Yes but even now you are shying away from saying anything you disliked about the game even though you just playtested it. I'd be interested in hearing from you the 3 biggest pros AND cons you noticed after playing the game. I'm not asking for a conclusive review just both sides of the coin.

He probably won't answer you or will be very brief and give a canned response since MMORPG.com will be relying on ad revenue when the game gets to that point.  It's just the nature of the business world and the current way our society works.

Originally posted by azarhal

Originally posted by JimmyYO

Hey look guys, I could care less if another actionRPG MMO tries to grace us with it's presence but don't slap it with a D&D label then insult the fans even more by giving it the Neverwinter name while making the game nothing at all like D&D(any edition).

 

For the record, DDO made a plethora of empty promises about adding many classes after launch as well. I think the sadest part is that Neverwinter Online is shaping up to be even less true to D&D then DDO, which is a feat in itself. How many fail MMO's that sandbag their own audience does it take before these devs learn.

 

The whole reason the PC Neverwinter series was so popular was because of how close it was to D&D. MMO's obviously have more limitations but that's not a free ticket to take a dump on the fans.

 

RIP Neverwinter series. Oh well maybe Pathfinder has the smarts to pull it off.

DDO is supposed to be 3.5e and took lots of detour since it was released.

NWO use 4e. Cryptic went as far as to implement the classes based on the Player Handbook proposed build.

Yes I realize they're different editions and ironicly both games ignored them. What else do both those games have in common? They're both awful, in my "humble" opinion.

Target an audience then proceed to take a dump on said audience and your game will fail, not rocket science.

Originally posted by Warley

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Yes but even now you are shying away from saying anything you disliked about the game even though you just playtested it. I'd be interested in hearing from you the 3 biggest pros AND cons you noticed after playing the game. I'm not asking for a conclusive review just both sides of the coin.

He probably won't answer you or will be very brief and give a canned response since MMORPG.com will be relying on ad revenue when the game gets to that point.  It's just the nature of the business world and the current way our society works.

I doubt it is a case of that. Remember he did a PREVIEW not a REVIEW these two things are looked upon in a different manner. Previews are just that they preview it for others to see and judge for themsevles seen as the build is so early almost everything can change. This is why Preview rarely have any negatives put on them. I am sure once release is here then a full review will be done with the pro's and con's.

If I don't give a crap about playing any hybrid classes and enjoy running dungeons DPSing or Healing for 30 minutes to get loot...is it ok if I like the game?

Not everyone is going to like / demand the same features. The inclusion / omission doesn't mean the game is terrible to anyone other than the person compaining. In this case JimmyYO.

Originally posted by Warley

 

Bill, gamers are much,more savvy nowadays.  Everyone with MMO experience over the years knew that Star Wars TOR would be the same ol' watered down WoW clone.  And, yet, it gets great reviews by MMORPG and all the other online magazines that depend heavily on ad revenue.  We know how the world works: it's a business oriented world.  Please don't pretend it isn't.

um...

I would have given SWToR a good review with some criticisms here and there,. I wouldn't assume that just because it gets a good review that the reviewer doesn't like it.

I would even go as far as to say that if people actually paid attention to what the devs said, taking into account subjective terms, that they actually fulfilled their claims.

Except for the pvp of course.

@Jimmy

On that mod thing about deliting everything negative toward GW2 i need to add something you might missed and I felt thet on my MMORPG acc.

Thay started not only deliting they were baning ppl that made their negative point of view on GW in BETA and continue trough when game went live and now look at the posts ppl complaining about. 99% of that i posted about GW2.

@ Bill Murphy

I kind of understand thet there is someone on higher place than you in MMORPG as a company and you are doing yur best. 

But seriously, everyone can get a good review at BETA if the money is in place on MMORPG, then you leave ppl spaming all kind of posts saying all the negative aspects of the game that were praised in reviews, that is not in some games it started to be a common thing on this web site.

So common that you can copy/past last 4-5 MMORPG that went from BETA to live.

Originally posted by Woopin

Originally posted by Warley

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Yes but even now you are shying away from saying anything you disliked about the game even though you just playtested it. I'd be interested in hearing from you the 3 biggest pros AND cons you noticed after playing the game. I'm not asking for a conclusive review just both sides of the coin.

He probably won't answer you or will be very brief and give a canned response since MMORPG.com will be relying on ad revenue when the game gets to that point.  It's just the nature of the business world and the current way our society works.

I doubt it is a case of that. Remember he did a PREVIEW not a REVIEW these two things are looked upon in a different manner. Previews are just that they preview it for others to see and judge for themsevles seen as the build is so early almost everything can change. This is why Preview rarely have any negatives put on them. I am sure once release is here then a full review will be done with the pro's and con's.

PROS: Combat, Character Creation, God that lovely, deep UI.

CONS: Limited classes, not sure I like the "pets/companions" being combat allies, stability (it crashed and voip was not stable).

All of those Suzie and I mentioned in different articles today as well.

Worries for the future? What is there to do at the cap? How deep and well-used will the Foundry be? How long will we wait for new classes, and races? What will monetization be?

That said, it's still a fun game. Plainly, and simply. And it won't stop being fun even if my cons aren't addressed.  It'll be flawed, but still fun.

One thing I wish I didn't have to keep repeating on these forums and in articles? The community staff and the editorial staff, BOTH have nothing to do with advertising at all.  The owners of the site handle all of that.  We make a concerted effort to keep it separate so we can be honest with our takes on games.  Everyone forgets the time Earthrise came out and we had a review blasting its poor craftsmanship, right alongside full-page ads. Our owners defended us and our write to voice our opinions when the marketing team from Earthrise went to them complaining.

Advertising and the people buying ads are the least of my worries.  They're the owners' headache, not mine.  I'm far more concerned with giving you open honest feedback on games.

Originally posted by koljane

@Jimmy

 

On that mod thing about deliting everything negative toward GW2 i need to add something you might missed and I felt thet on my MMORPG acc.

Thay started not only deliting they were baning ppl that made their negative point of view on GW in BETA and continue trough when game went live and now look at the posts ppl complaining about. 99% of that i posted about GW2.

 

 

On the community stuff, I actually don't have any power there.  There are three heads to this site.  Owners (ads, backend, design), Editorial (the written and video content you see), Community (the forums and social networks).  I can't speak for the Owners or Mike B and his community staff.  But I'll gladly take heat for editorial content and try my best to keep improving.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

Originally posted by steelheartx
There was also an article recently where they were saying they would like to add other FR locations in like Waterdeep in the future.  Pretty excited to check it out myself.

Yeah, given that you can be from Amn, etc, I'd hope so.

Look folks: no one here is calling this game the best game EVAR, but those of us here who've played it enjoyed it so far.  And we're trying to give you as much info about it as possible, mixed with opinions of both the positive and negative. 

Thank you.

Originally posted by JimmyYO

I don't know whats more tragic: that this game is not even inspired by D&D rules or that they are actually placing the D&D label on a game with 5 classes total.......... Yep if you're the games supposed target audience you will be very disappointed, as Neverwinter has virtually no semblance of D&D in it.[mod edit]

However, if you want a bad combination of WoW and Tera, with far less content, you should be well satisfied. If you're throwing all your cards on the foundry you can expect it to be the most limited building experience you'll ever encounter given how limited the game is in general.

For once the mmorpg.com hype meter is correct dropping this game off the radar.

How did you get to play a FINISHED 100% released, Non-Alpha, Non-Beta product already?

/sarcasm off