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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

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177 posts found
  Lore84

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/13
Posts: 69

2/15/13 8:25:23 AM#141
Originally posted by Nibs

I don't think DAoC actively encouraged or discouraged either zerg v zerg or 8-man v 8-man.

Yet they both existed.

If they encourage either playstyle they are effectively telling the other 'this ain't the game for you'. Which would be wrong, even for a niche game.

Some people felt that keeps and relic were important and taking either required zergs. Others didn't, and they went and 8-manned it up.

Even with some of the huge seiges that we had you could have the main zerg attacking the keep, another couple of mini-zergs blockading the portal keeps and still have use for the co-ordinated 8-mans running patrols around the whole affair. Every playstyle was catered for in a single 'event' type setting without the devs having to do anything to encourage it. At least taht's how it was on both Alb/Percival and Mid/Gareth. Heck, with some of the audacious plans that we executed we had 4 or 5 full battlegroups and still had numerous 8-mans running around and everyone found enough action to be as happy as a pig in shit at the end of the day!

As long as there's plenty of room both playstyles can co-exist.

Hopefully that's the case with CU. I just think that its possible to enable either playstyle without "encouraging" it. Its the potential that matters, and its not like you need to have rediculously overpowered CC for it. Long,yes...but have means to break it.

Ex-DAOC, Excalibur

  SyrixII

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 43

2/15/13 8:26:06 AM#142

I do have one more to add...

 

Friars!

 

It's been a long time since i have seen a game where someone could take a quarterstaff and whip your ass with it. I know there has been some enchanters and other classes in games but they always felt more like mages. Friars always felt more like a rogue type char (dexterous and evasive) without stealth but some magical supplement instead. It was by far my most favorite class i have ever played in any game. I thank DAOC for those memories every time i think about MMOs. In fact, anytime i look at a new MMO, that's the first thing i look for. How to build a char similar to that. It's what drew me away from my shadowblade i loved so dear. I got my ass handed to me enough times by a friar. If you can't beat em, roll one up! LOL

  Bearprobe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/04
Posts: 12

2/15/13 8:47:36 AM#143
Originally posted by rogue187
just curious...you all love daoc so much...do you still play it?

 

I play it still. Every day and it's as fun as it ever was.

 

Mark, just for fun. If your Kickstarter project happened to reach something like say 20 mil. :p How would this impact the content and design? :)  Silly question I know, but would be fun to read your answer.

My list

* Lots of classes like in DAoC.

* Spellcrafting with embue points.

* Realm Abilities, (I know you said no Realm Ranks but hey, this is MY list) :)

* A Theurgist class

* Let guilds upload emblems for their guild like in Aion.

 

  Satarious

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1045

2/15/13 4:48:45 PM#144
Originally posted by Nibs

I don't think DAoC actively encouraged or discouraged either zerg v zerg or 8-man v 8-man.

Yet they both existed.

If they encourage either playstyle they are effectively telling the other 'this ain't the game for you'. Which would be wrong, even for a niche game.

Some people felt that keeps and relic were important and taking either required zergs. Others didn't, and they went and 8-manned it up.

Even with some of the huge seiges that we had you could have the main zerg attacking the keep, another couple of mini-zergs blockading the portal keeps and still have use for the co-ordinated 8-mans running patrols around the whole affair. Every playstyle was catered for in a single 'event' type setting without the devs having to do anything to encourage it. At least taht's how it was on both Alb/Percival and Mid/Gareth. Heck, with some of the audacious plans that we executed we had 4 or 5 full battlegroups and still had numerous 8-mans running around and everyone found enough action to be as happy as a pig in shit at the end of the day!

As long as there's plenty of room both playstyles can co-exist.

I have nothing against 8-man rollers.  I'm like you in that you should play however you like.   I just hate the 8-man rollers who cry like little babies when they get rolled because it's "unfair" that the zerg had such an advantage in numbers over them.  My fear is that if you get enough of these crybabies making a stink, the developers get swayed into making stupid mistakes that somehow bolster the small groups to give them a better advantage over the zergs.   There should be no artificial boosters to put small groups on an equal footing with large groups, as far as I'm concerned.  That's just a recipe for FAIL.

As for my use of the word "encouragement", you took me out of context.  I just meant that there needs to be some sort of system to encourage STRATEGY & TACTICS with zergs since "the path of least resistance" seems to be  randomly throwing oneself into the fight with no thought of strategy in zergs.  The system can most certainly be done in a better way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  MarkJacobs

CEO City State Entertainment

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 405

2/15/13 5:04:47 PM#145
Originally posted by Bearprobe
Originally posted by rogue187
just curious...you all love daoc so much...do you still play it?

 

I play it still. Every day and it's as fun as it ever was.

 

Mark, just for fun. If your Kickstarter project happened to reach something like say 20 mil. :p How would this impact the content and design? :)  Silly question I know, but would be fun to read your answer.

My list

* Lots of classes like in DAoC.

* Spellcrafting with embue points.

* Realm Abilities, (I know you said no Realm Ranks but hey, this is MY list) :)

* A Theurgist class

* Let guilds upload emblems for their guild like in Aion.

 

Okay, this one made me smile. Before I answer that question, you do know that the reason that there aren't realm abilities is because all abilities are, in essence, realm abilities because everything is RvR based. It would be silly of me to call them realm abilities (besides the whole "they are called that in Dark Age") because the way players are going to get them is different that Dark Age and well, because they are the abilities you get for doing RvR anyway. :)

Besides that, hmm. First, I would push for more races, rather than classes at first. Races, while different from each other, will have less of an impact on game balance than new classes.  Second, I'd add one of our stretch goals (I'll talk about this another day) into the main development pipeline. Third, I'd hire all the best voice actors in the world! (no, JK).  Third, i would definitely add some additional crafting to the game. Next, I'd probably look at expanding the shattered world even more for each realm to play in (not adding Pve, this too will be explained later). Finally, then I'd look at adding some additional classes though I'd much rather keep adding classes slowly post release so as not to screw up the balance. 

However, before I spent a single extra dime for additional development, I would make sure to keep plenty of reserve in the CSE bank account until the game launched just in case we ended up being late, since that's never happened to any MMORPG. :)

Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2090

joie de vivre

2/15/13 5:05:22 PM#146

1. Housing
2. Decor/Cosmetics
3. Consequences
4. PVP Loot of some kind that both rewards you and hurts your opponent-slightly
5. Ability to sack pillage and burn your opponents main city (resulting in a very slow rebuild)
6. Uber mysterious NPC faction (that the devs use to do stuff, even updates). Think of them like the Gods sitting on the mountain or the mob. They are a myth and a mystery but when they do something things get crazy. This could also be used as a balancer ex. 1 relm has been getting mauled to the point of it being redundant and defeating so a nasty NPC dragon comes in to balance things out. But keep it uber rare so it's meaningful.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Kraylore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/13
Posts: 2

2/15/13 9:00:09 PM#147

Top 5 must haves wish list:

1. Serious investigation into the oceanic problem (i.e. high ping 250-300+ ).

Whether the solution be an oceanic server (single server considering the smaller community), working together with a proxy service, or careful consideration regarding gameplay mechanics, to allow the game to be both playable AND enjoyable.

 

2. Near true in game time.

I'm not fond of 24 hours, but 16 hour days would be perfect. It would be a dream to login at 6pm each day and be able to experience morning, afternoon and evening depending on the day. This would allow guilds to co-ordinate night raids without having to stay up till 3am.

 

3. Lots of points of interest or 'objectives' to fight over.

Not only this, but holding multiple points of interest should be meaningful. I want to see incentives for the zerg to split off into smaller groups. For a lack of a better example, WoW has objective battlegrounds where you need to hold multiple objectives to win (thus splitting off into smaller groups) and it is nigh impossible to hold them all.

 

4. I don't want to feel safe all the time.

When i'm out in the wild, I want to feel like not being careful will get me killed. I want to have to pay attention to my surroundings and take heed of player warnings.

 

5. I want to feel the weight behind my swings.

I want combat to feel good and my heavy strikes to feel heavy. Better yet, I want to take off limbs, explode bodies with fire or freeze my foes and shatter them into tiny shards (I'm not a violent person - honest!).

 

Cheers,

  Hokibukisa

Novice Member

Joined: 3/25/06
Posts: 190

2/15/13 10:05:41 PM#148

If there is collision detection, I would hope for pushing mechanics.

The bigger the brute, the harder they push. Also incorporating everyone else's weight to the equation.

 

Pushing was actually a very HUGE part of ancient and medieval warfare. When hannibal flanked the romans, one of the reasons why it is so tactically compromising, is the pushing involved. When your force is engulfed and pushed in from all directions, you literally have no room to move. At all. Not even to raise your sword. That day the romans were packed in like sardines, seeing rank after rank helplessly massacred, waiting for their turn to die.

 

What was I saying? Oh yes, If collision detection goes in, I would hope pushing is involved. If an elf caster tries to block a troll warrior, LOL his pansy ass gets to eat pavement.

 

But we can think of cool shit all day long. This would just be a nice to have. Five million dollars should be spent on fine tuning the essentials, plus marketing unfortunately. Good news is that the people you need to market this kind of game to will inevitably hear about it through sites like this and other gaming news feeds. Steam advertising would be really good too.

 

What was I saying? I cant remember.

  mugsie

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/13
Posts: 5

2/15/13 10:37:22 PM#149

1. Responsive Combat

This is the first and usually only aspect of an mmo that everyone in my guild will judge before deciding to throw their hat in for a game.

I don't care if the combat system is more akin to DAoC or more resembles GW2 or WoW.  Whatever route CSE takes, the combat has to be smooth and crisp.  Abilities need to fire exactly when pressed, targeting should be accurate and player positions should not be guesswork.  There are too many options in gaming nowadays if combat feels clunky or disjointed. No matter how long I played and loved DAoC, it really does feel clunky nowdays compared to other mmos that are out there.  If you praise WoW for one thing, it is that the responsiveness during combat is spot on.

2. Unfettered Character Movement

I dislike abilities that lock your character into place for the most part.  This is mainly because, normally, those abilities cannot be canceled by movement after being fired.  If an ability roots the character in place, I believe you should be able to cancel it if you decide to move.  I hate being locked in place when, barring any enemy CC, I can easily stop the action.  This coincides with a responsive combat system and being able to have full control of any avatar that you are playing.  This does not mean this game needs instas or spellcasting when moving .. just no locking in place.

3. Clean Intuitive UI

Nothing can back me out of a new game faster than a clunky UI that looks like I could have thrown it together in VB.Net with a 2 hour crash course in MS Paint. The UI is a portal to your game and should be polished, clean, and with a bit of texture.  A fullness if you will.  These things coincide with being able to open and close various windows with ease and without lag. 

I agree with a lot of what people have said.  Some of it I don't.  I have been playing multiplayer online games since my MUD days.  I have a fondness for DAoC and WoW if you can imagine that.  I am not a curmudgeon that requires speed 6, aoe army-stopping mez, and perma interrupts from a grey con pet.  But yes, a return to a more old school game with sandboxish elements that requires a  bit of social networking .. count me in.  Crafters being able to make a name for themselves as well as guilds .. sign me up. Rolling up on a lone Brehon and smashing his head in with 7 other people.  Yes .. take my money.

  Jimmac

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/28/10
Posts: 1665

2/16/13 1:05:35 AM#150

My top 5 must-have or must-not-have list:

1. Sandbox style crafting, housing, property ownership, player made communities, and some sort of system in place for a very robust and active player ran economy.

What's all that mean?

When building and decorating your house with items, the number of options you have should be absolutely staggering. You should have more styles to choose from and more choices of items to put in your home than you know what to do with. Same goes with the actual construction of your place. Same goes with where you can build. No segregated neighborhoods (like DAOC), no instanced housing (EQ2). Players can sell things from their home, from a community market if they build one, or from a central big marketplace (where they go drop off the items to be placed for sale and other players have to go there to buy items, like a Wal Mart). As for "sandbox style crafting," this is a tough one and would require much more space to write out.

2. If the world has NPC's, then they need to be living and breathing and moving around as if they are living a life.

What's this mean?

You walk into a town and go into the weapons store. Since you are the only customer in there, the shop owner had been sitting down eating something. He gets up to go stand behind the counter. He's available to help you if you need it. if you just stand in his store for 30 minutes afk, eventually he will get tired of waiting on you to do something and so he will continue his meal. When he's done, he goes about his chores - cleaning the weapons, etc. Maybe he goes to the bathroom real quick. His kids watch the store while he is away and can help you. If you are in a little village, shops close at dark. If you need to buy/sell things during darkness hours, don't fret. One store opens only at night and covers all the basic needs. Meanwhile, most of the other NPCs in town are sleeping. It is only night 1/4 of the time so this is no big deal if you need to wait to buy something from a merchant who is sleeping. Maybe even some would be willing to wake up to make a sale if you knock on their door.

This is what creates immersion. NPCs have things to do each day just like real people and they do them. Maybe once every 7 days, most of the NPCs in a village gather to play tether ball or something in a big tournament. How hard would it be to code this stuff? Get creative and make us a living, breathing world. NPC's which stand in one place 24/7 are just silly. Every NPC in a village should have a place to sleep, a place to eat, a place to work, and a place they go to unwind.

3. No stealth (invisibility) ability.

If the ability is in the game, then make it have a short active timer, and a long reuse timer. Ideally the game would have no stealther classes whatsoever.

4. Combat mechanics like DAOC's.

Combat mechanics that encourage 8 manning (or 7 manning, 6 manning, whatever # the group limit may be), and which let small groups be able to fight large groups and win due to superior tactics and strategy.

5. Bring back that feeling.

The adrenaline rush from engaging in an 8 man fight. The edge of my chair excitement in a keep take. Maybe these feelings are lost forever, but maybe they aren't. No other game has come close to making me feel that way. If CU can being them back then CU might be my mmo of choice for a very long time.

  Heartspark

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/13
Posts: 69

2/16/13 4:10:04 AM#151

1.  Random Dragon events in pvp.  Every realm has to fight it..and itself a few times a month/week. :D  Total choas, total fun.

2.  Crafters have to have the material to craft, they can't trade or buy it.  What you harvest, is what you craft with.  No more crafters standing in one spot all day.

3.  Guild controled keeps/areas.  

4.  DAOC weather system, rain like whoah or snow.

5.  just do daoc combat system.

Heartspark: Animist rr12, bors, Lone Enforcer, Retired

Dranzerk: Berzerker (kay) retired
Dhei: Spiritmaster (Kay) retired
Goblinking : Hunter (Kay) retired
Moongoose: Shadowblade (Kay) retired

  ElderSage

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/13
Posts: 1

2/16/13 4:35:05 PM#152

Interaction with your King/Leader.

 

Example A:

Imagine you and your guild have managed to hold back trough a relentless assault. Or launch an attack with biblical epic outcome.

As reward for your bravery , you are summoned by the King. Who then bestows on you the Cross of Bravery.

As reward for your rebuilding skills, Cross of Mason.

Etc ...

 

Example B:

Monthly event where all are summoned for a feast together with the king. Where he holds a speech and adress those 

who have done a good job protecting our domain or adding to our domain. The more people are at the feast the more the realm gets inspired/buffed. Offcourse during this time , the realm is open for grabs if you leave it unattended.

 

Example C:

The King rides with you into battle, inspiring all who ride with him. ( This can be triggered if the majority of guild leaders demand for an intervention by the King for a certain battle , once a week).

 

Example D:

See example C. During this battle the faeces hit the fan, your King is brought to fall. Your sole mission now is to get him to safety first , by escorting him very slowly back to a friendly keep while hordes of your enemies try to stop you.

 

Example E:

See example D. You fail to escort your King to safety. He is taken by the enemy and held for ransom. This gives your realm a debuff , because well ... you are without a King. Money will be have to be brought to the table. And with money i mean a tremendous fee, wich will have to be raised by everyone of the realm. Once the money is paid your King is send back to you. And out of shame will not be able to execute Example C for a couple of weeks.

 

All previous stated examples are being executed by a developer/GM. So you dont get an NPC rimturd as King ! :)

 

Realm Pride right there. 

  Voiidiin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 826

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

 
OP  2/18/13 9:09:33 AM#153
Originally posted by Heartspark

1.  Random Dragon events in pvp.  Every realm has to fight it..and itself a few times a month/week. :D  Total choas, total fun.

2.  Crafters have to have the material to craft, they can't trade or buy it.  What you harvest, is what you craft with.  No more crafters standing in one spot all day.

3.  Guild controled keeps/areas.  

4.  DAOC weather system, rain like whoah or snow.

5.  just do daoc combat system.

Really would love a dynamic weather system, even better is if you had true day and night where when it was dark... it is frickin dark. Allowing cloud cover to come into play, maybe muddy fields would hamper movement.... swamps and other forms of difficult terrain could play a strategic part to how assaults are carried out or defended against. 

I would love to have a real danger from the environment, hot hot days affecting those in full plate, freezing cold affecting the bikini clad warriors, visual distance affected from fog. 

Could have whole classes dedicated to environmental alterations.... WeatherMage, or battlefield engineer who can deploy smoke effects, Water mage dessicating lands making them dry and more susceptible to fires, or the reverse making a desert into a long stretch of mud affecting movement.

Bleh i could go on and on about having serious weather affects in the game and how it would alter the field of battle. Hoping maybe this might be a possibility, but it might too much of a stretch. As it is i still cant get Mark to comment about collision detection.

Lolipops !

  MightyPit

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/02
Posts: 88

2/18/13 9:21:25 AM#154

I have another thing I would love to see:

Shieldwalls. Like in the bad old times, fighters fighting side by side against the enemy line of shields. Could be acomplished for example by a stackable buff each shieldbearer provide to a small area. Collision Detection preconditioned, so that not 100 shieldbearer can stand in one spot.

Mage-shields: A class of mages who can channel a shield bubble. within the bubble, magic attacks are reduced heavily. The channelstream to the bubble is visible. It is clear for the enemy who channels the shield. The channeler himself cannot stand within a shieldbubble, and he cannot stand in somebody elses bubble, since the bubble would cut off the channeled magic.

MMO's played so far:
UO,EQ,DAOC,EQ2,GW,ROM,WOW,WAR,AOC,LOTRO,RIFT,TSW,GW2,POE
Looking forward to: Camelot Unchained, Star Citizen

  cruzadoh

Novice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 2

2/18/13 7:01:19 PM#155

1.Short CCs with time inmunity or medium/large CCs with purge type skills.

2.Cast while moving for melees, root in place for the most powerfull skills for rangeds (WAR)

3.Unique Mechanic for each class

4.AOE damage skills more powerfull if hits more targets to fight zergs

5.Slow / medium speed in combat and limited speed bufs and movement type skills(teleports). More speed out of combat

  shadevice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/27/12
Posts: 71

2/18/13 7:48:35 PM#156

In no paticular order...and i'll leave out no brainers like balanced classes or lag free game play.

1. Global kill spam. Yeah Global but make it filterable for those who don't want to see it.

2.  I'm all for some realism but theres no need for weapon/armor deterioration. Its just an annoyance, not game changing.

3. Powerful abilities gained from certain combat goals reached. Example: you got a kill streak of 10 in a row without dying...some ultra ability triggers and is available until you die or zone. Roleplayers can consider it a "confidence, adreniline boost where your skills are ultra honed in" - 

4. No face/stick . This is a hand holding feature and forgives bad pvpers

5. Potions are nice but I don't want to have to carry 5 of this or that to be competitive. Leave it to your personal play, class abilities and group coordination to decide the outcome. 

 

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2090

joie de vivre

2/18/13 9:26:28 PM#157

5 more
1. Hauler/smuggler class that hauls resources from the front to crafters and back. Escape skills and base combat abilities. Back packs, Animals, NPCs, and eventually wagons for hauling.
2. Rotating resources like SWG to keep gatherers awake and hunting and crafted items prices fluctuating.
3. Item quality variance and the ability to name said items so u know who makes the good stuff
4. RP resources
5. A buff class like entertainer from SWG, why? Because that class was the social glue of the game and it left a massive hole to be filled by the hordes of players who loved it and had to leave it. We need bars with food, drink, and entertainers.
6. Bounty System, works especially with smugglers but can apply to anyone.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 387

2/18/13 9:44:51 PM#158
Originally posted by Voiidiin

So i was thinking we could come up with a list (5 ideas per post) that is a must have or must have not for CU.

1. Movable and reusable siege.

2. Faction based PvP not FFA. (failed on Andred and Mordred) Lot of other FFA MMOs avail, i think we need a fresh 3 faction representation.

3. Collision detection, this might be a pipe dream but it would make all sieges more strategic, making a moving line to advance, blocking choke points.

4. Mounted combat. One of the worst parts of GW2 is the lack of mounts.

5. Scalable walls, one thing that was awesome about DAoC siege warfare was you had to watch the climb points, maybe this can be a skill that you train into, changing the speed you can scale a wall.

 

1. Collision Detection

2. Combos/Skill chains, ie, a bonus to damage when you interact after an allies spell/skill, especially a longer series. (Think Final Fantasty 11 Skill Chains and GW2 Combos).

3. Player built cities, a la, Shadowbane.  Perhaps limit this to certain strategic points where they can be built and have time limits or windows of when they can be built, or how many can be on the map before being destroyed.

4. Limited skill slots, but lots of skills to pick and choose from.  Also attach negative effects to certain skills so you have to weight if they are worth it for the build you are going for (think Magic The Gathering cards here).

5. Stealth should be more like predator passive style.  If you are moving you are less camo'd and more prismatic.  If you are stationary you have an outline but are nearly invisible.  Must click on character outline to be able to target, no tabbing to someone in stealth/camo.

6. Ground mounts only, only 50% faster than normal running speed.  Not usable in combat.

  Tierless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/08
Posts: 2090

joie de vivre

2/18/13 9:54:23 PM#159

"5. Stealth should be more like predator passive style. If you are moving you are less camo'd and more prismatic. If you are stationary you have an outline but are nearly invisible. Must click on character outline to be able to target, no tabbing to someone in stealth/camo."

/agree That type of stealth is more exciting for predator and prey and requires more skill in both stalking and spotting. Complete stealth is just so overdone and easy mode.

mmorpg.com/blogs/Xobdnas

  NegativeJoe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 164

sorry if it hurts

2/18/13 11:57:23 PM#160

One thing I would like is some sort of 'matching' system, or something to make it more 'new player' friendly so after the first few months, people can still reasonably pick up the game and play.
I know most don't want it but hear me out.
I know there is no levels, so we don't know much about progression or if there would be different tiers, or anything outside of the main frontier..so who knows if its even relevant

As a huge fan and longtime player of DAoC, I'm sure most of you are like me..went off to play dozens of other games, came back, repeat.

A lot of times I did that it was to a bad game, but I met good friends. I would bring them to DAoC, and they would get the hang of it for 20 lvl's or so..I'd sort of gear them a little bit for their first 'realish' rvr in thid..

and of course, a 1v1 fight or a small group fight would leave them feeling so outmatched they would be scared away. People permanantly in thid, buffed, potions, spellcrafted to perfection, just daily nonstop picking off the new playerbase one by one.

You can't have that, and I did it myself so I'm not really casting stones but countless times I lost friends who were just thinking they finally reached that level to try the famous 'thid' and it ended up being such a buzzkill for them they never stuck around to really get into the game.


It doesn't seem there will be any sort of levels but there has to be a way to make it new player friendly, because DAoC was about the furthest thing from it. And while its not out yet..the first so many months will be fine, it will get to the same point most likely. I couldn't imagine many players picking up the game 3-5 years ago, knowing no one, and sticking it out unless they really kissed some major butt to some richer old players.

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