Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

So, if the game doesn't have enough content to level up 3 races from the same faction then your argument about it being good for people who play alts doesn't hold water. And as I said, I am one of those people so it doesn't work for me.

I think you missed the part in yellow.

No, I explained it in my post. Guess you forgot to read it and just looked for what you thought was a problem with it.

Originally posted by KaiserPhoenix
i rather have meaningful smaller areas, than big empty worlds of nothingness.

If those meaningful smaller areas are accessible by all characters then doesn't that give you a larger meaningful area?

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

So, if the game doesn't have enough content to level up 3 races from the same faction then your argument about it being good for people who play alts doesn't hold water. And as I said, I am one of those people so it doesn't work for me.

I think you missed the part in yellow.

No, I explained it in my post. Guess you forgot to read it and just looked for what you thought was a problem with it.

No I read your post, and I'm sorry if you want toons from the same alliance, doesn't change what I said, you simply found what you thought was a problem with it...

Originally posted by Thorbrand
It is instance so it isn't DAoC in anyway, we are just getting anoher failed GW2 WvW PvP gimmick. This game will be the death of Elder Scrolls even the single player game will have longer life spans than the MMO.

If by instance you mean zoned, what makes that so different than DAOC on standard servers? If you mean by campaign, the campaign is broken down into server sized clusters. You are always in the same cluster, unless you decide to change. That goess for everyone in that cluster as well, so I'm not sure what you mean here?

Originally posted by Distopia

 

No I read your post, and I'm sorry if you want toons from the same alliance, doesn't change what I said, you simply found what you thought was a problem with it...

It is a problem. No if's, no buts. If your solution is "sorry you have to roll another faction to prevent repeating content" then that is a cop out, bad design and poor foresight.

You used me, an altaholic, to reinforce your argument. When i let you know that your argument fails you have no where else to go. You have to add a stipulation that there is enough content as long as you only roll 1 character per faction. Not a solution to the problem, sorry.

That logic of game design is about as useful as the GW2 design allowing you to transfer servers so everyone quits a losing faction to join a winning one. BAD design.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Eir_S

I see a few people here and there (not the majority for sure) saying faction locks is a good thing.

Exactly how...?  This is the worst idea i've heard in a long time.  I am still somewhat interested in the game, but don't make this out to be some genius development plan when it's just something that limits the player in a game series that is traditionally all about NOT limiting the player.  It's pure fail.

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

That's completely different though.  In SWTOR, you were forced to repeat content through a very linear planet path early on.  People didn't like the lack of choice.  Why those same people are going to be happy with a different lack of choice is beyond me, but I guess we'll see.  The point is, if people feel they're not allowed to do what they want, they lose interest pretty fast.  MMOs are supposed to be getting more varied, not more restrictive. 

Also, skimming your argument with the guy up there, I think he's talking about what I just thought about... what if you want to roll the same faction for all your characters?  You're going to have to repeat content and in much the same way as SWTOR, you can't really do anything about it because it's going to be nearly as linear.  Factions limit gameplay, and locked factions just limit it more.

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Originally posted by Maelwydd

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Originally posted by Crazyhorsek Combat. I repeat. Again. Its alpha. Ok? Got it? Alpha before beta... You know that, right?

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Hold the front page....you mean to say, due to the complaints, suggestions, observations of people during testing the designers changed, modified and/or improved the game???   And here I thought we were all wasting our breath and that nothing would ever change! Well slap my thigh and call me Suzie, I guess I will keep posting my thoughts and opinions, thanks for the moral boost.

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Don't be silly of course combat animations can and will be improved before launch (and after launch too), as can combat mechanics etc, the difference is what your asking to be changed is at the center of the story the game is telling

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

 

No I read your post, and I'm sorry if you want toons from the same alliance, doesn't change what I said, you simply found what you thought was a problem with it...

It is a problem. No if's, no buts. If your solution is "sorry you have to roll another faction to prevent repeating content" then that is a cop out, bad design and poor foresight.

You used me, an altaholic, to reinforce your argument. When i let you know that your argument fails you have no where else to go. You have to add a stipulation that there is enough content as long as you only roll 1 character per faction. Not a solution to the problem, sorry.

That logic of game design is about as useful as the GW2 design allowing you to transfer servers so everyone quits a losing faction to join a winning one. BAD design.

My theory is based on past experience, and I was referring specifically to rolling an alt on a different alliance, which places you outside of the point I was making, no copout about it.

For the rest of your post... I didn't design it so I feel no need to defend what you think is bad design....

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

 

No I read your post, and I'm sorry if you want toons from the same alliance, doesn't change what I said, you simply found what you thought was a problem with it...

It is a problem. No if's, no buts. If your solution is "sorry you have to roll another faction to prevent repeating content" then that is a cop out, bad design and poor foresight.

You used me, an altaholic, to reinforce your argument. When i let you know that your argument fails you have no where else to go. You have to add a stipulation that there is enough content as long as you only roll 1 character per faction. Not a solution to the problem, sorry.

That logic of game design is about as useful as the GW2 design allowing you to transfer servers so everyone quits a losing faction to join a winning one. BAD design.

My theory is based on past experience, and I was referring specifically to rolling an alt on a different alliance, which places you outside of the point I was making, no copout about it.

For the rest of your post... I didn't design it so I feel no need to defend what you think is bad design....

Err.. not to get too involved in your argument here, but since your initial reply about this was to me, you did say "people who like alts".  That includes a lot of people, like Maelwydd (and myself I guess), who don't like faction locks.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Eir_S

I see a few people here and there (not the majority for sure) saying faction locks is a good thing.

Exactly how...?  This is the worst idea i've heard in a long time.  I am still somewhat interested in the game, but don't make this out to be some genius development plan when it's just something that limits the player in a game series that is traditionally all about NOT limiting the player.  It's pure fail.

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

That's completely different though.  In SWTOR, you were forced to repeat content through a very linear planet path early on.  People didn't like the lack of choice.  Why those same people are going to be happy with a different lack of choice is beyond me, but I guess we'll see.  The point is, if people feel they're not allowed to do what they want, they lose interest pretty fast.  MMOs are supposed to be getting more varied, not more restrictive. 

Also, skimming your argument with the guy up there, I think he's talking about what I just thought about... what if you want to roll the same faction for all your characters?  You're going to have to repeat content and in much the same way as SWTOR, you can't really do anything about it because it's going to be nearly as linear.  Factions limit gameplay, and locked factions just limit it more.

All I can say is it never bothered me in DAOC.

I know what he's talking about, if you've read one of his posts you've read them all on this subject, he doesn't like anything about this setup, that's his choice to make. I'm simply speaking of my time in DAOC, and what people may like about this type of setup, after seeing one playfield, you have two more to experience.

When it comes to individual zone size and content within I have no idea, nor does anyone else, so I wsn't even thinking at all about rolling alts within the same alliance, as the point of the alt is to see the differnt lands, not diferent races.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Crazyhorsek

Combat. I repeat. Again. Its alpha. Ok? Got it? Alpha before beta... You know that, right?

Hold the front page....you mean to say, due to the complaints, suggestions, observations of people during testing the designers changed, modified and/or improved the game???

 

And here I thought we were all wasting our breath and that nothing would ever change! Well slap my thigh and call me Suzie, I guess I will keep posting my thoughts and opinions, thanks for the moral boost.

Dear Suzie.

Thing is... its not going to change because you want to, but because their goals are not reached yet. It doesnt change due to your (or mine) complaints or observations... it changes because devs have their standards - and until they reach them within a reasonable time before deadline, it will continue to change.

For instance... its pointless to argue about faction lock - they wont change it. Specially when they already announced how its going to work. Theres no changes in mechanics after that - now its all about working on the mould they already presented - its not the time to create another mould, specially one that goes against what the game creator himself wants to do and how he wants his game to be - that concept would change his idea of the game completely - so much it would actually change the identity of the game and it wouldnt be "his game" after all... he might as well leave if he was willing to change the original concept.

This doesnt work like "Alpha - public opinion - beta" lol... if this ever works like this, then there will be no game ever again because "public opinion" is a clusterfuck and people dont even know what they want. Public opinion takes place in betas and sometimes is considered, sometimes is not - but never involves a change to core mechanics - its purpose are tune-ups, a little thing here, other there... "the hand holding the knife is bent backwards after I sit down in location x and after I open my mailbox" or "omg backstab does 100.000.000 damage if you drink potion A" - its really polishment rather than "creating" or "changing core mechanics".

When you announce the cake, the shape of the cake will not change... but you can add flavours and toppings.

Originally posted by Eir_S

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

 

No I read your post, and I'm sorry if you want toons from the same alliance, doesn't change what I said, you simply found what you thought was a problem with it...

It is a problem. No if's, no buts. If your solution is "sorry you have to roll another faction to prevent repeating content" then that is a cop out, bad design and poor foresight.

You used me, an altaholic, to reinforce your argument. When i let you know that your argument fails you have no where else to go. You have to add a stipulation that there is enough content as long as you only roll 1 character per faction. Not a solution to the problem, sorry.

That logic of game design is about as useful as the GW2 design allowing you to transfer servers so everyone quits a losing faction to join a winning one. BAD design.

My theory is based on past experience, and I was referring specifically to rolling an alt on a different alliance, which places you outside of the point I was making, no copout about it.

For the rest of your post... I didn't design it so I feel no need to defend what you think is bad design....

Err.. not to get too involved in your argument here, but since your initial reply about this was to me, you did say "people who like alts".  That includes a lot of people, like Maelwydd (and myself I guess), who don't like faction locks.

I didn't say everyone who likes alts...

Originally posted by Distopia

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

You didn't?

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

You didn't?

/sigh does this round and round have a point?

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Can't believe some people actually think this will be like DAOC. The players are getting more desperate for a single decent MMO every day........haha

I haven't seen anyone say it will be like DAOC, DAOC is simply the game that most resembles ESO's world setup.

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Can't believe some people actually think this will be like DAOC. The players are getting more desperate for a single decent MMO every day........haha

Well... hmm... yes! lol I am! Im hoping this will be like DAoC hehe

But I have been wrong before... <cough>WAR<cough>

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Distopia

It's good for people who like Alts. Take many of the complaints about TOR's (or similar structure) repeating of content as an example. You won't have that type of problem in a world setup like this. The leveling experience will be somewhat fresh if you roll an alt within a different alliance. It was like that in DAOC as well.

You didn't?

/sigh does this round and round have a point?

Do you read what you write and what others write. You stated race locked factions are good for people who like alts. I and others who like playing alts explain why it isn't. Is it too hard to grasp that your argument is invalid and that is why people are pointing out where you are wrong in the arguments you use?

Does it have a point?

Yes. People, myself included do not like the direction the game has taken and are voicing our opinions, stating why and providing reasons why. Valid reasons not just "if you don't like it don't play it" or "It is fine as long as you don't create 2 characters in the same faction". That isn't going to change the fact that, for people who like playing alts there is a potentially HUGE pitfall in that by locking content you are forcing people into doing something they don't want to do and in terms of TES games have never had to do before. MMO or not, taking the playertbase and basically saying screw you, it is our design, while it is the designers perogative, is certainly not going to get people excited about buying the game.