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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Do mini-games make crafting better?

11 posts found

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/31/09
Posts: 2437

OP  2/04/13 3:22:13 PM#1

Sometimes I want more to crafting that merely clicking buttons and waiting for progress bars. Something that requires some thought, a puzzle perhaps, and my skill at completing it improves the outcome. I do like the idea of being an alchemist at heart no matter the trade, trying various combinations for different outcomes but do I really want to be burdened with a game intended to deplay me from the end result? After all it is only a matter of time before I master the mini-game.

I might be able to count more crafting minigames that became a nusance than those that did not although could there be some secret recipe? Time to complete(2) + Effort for product(3) + Scale of difficulty(5) + Frequency of crafting + Product outcome*usefulness =



Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/13
Posts: 1

2/04/13 3:42:15 PM#2


Mini games themselves can become just as tedious.  The one upside to the one click and done system is that you can farm up a large amount of materials, hit craft, and surf the web, read, or watch TV.

Systems like Everquest 2 and Vanguard, while they seem more interactive they get annoying and crafting takes forever.  Age of Wushu has a mini game system that is decent.  It is only useable with the Manufacturing skills (Blacksmithing, Tailoring, Chef, Poison Maker, Herbalist).  It is your basic gem game where you have to make combinations of gems to build energy and use abilities to defeat your opponent.  Every time you win you advance to the next phase (12 total) and you get more crafting exp with every phase.  This is a nice system because in AoW you have a limited amount of physical crafting you can do, the stat Vigor is limited and only resets at the 0:00 server time daily.  The aforementioned crafting game does not use your vigor freeing up your Vigor for harvesting materials or making products for sale instead of skill.  This mini game can also be used to mass craft.  The crafting version of the mini game requires a specific score of the Skull gems to finish and you only have 11 rounds to complete that total.  For each item you wish to craft the score required goes up, I.E. 1 sword takes a far lower score than 30 swords, but you are still limited to the 11 rounds.  The crafting version does use a players Vigor for each item crafted.

Does a system like Age of Wushu's actually liven up crafting?  My personal answer is no, instead of enjoying the game you sit there and stare at gems.  You do not have to use the mini game to advance your craft but doing so without the game is so inefficient.

Guild Wars 2 has a simple click and watch system, but I do like that each subsequent craft speeds up the progress, and the system is mainly discovery, making parts and combining them to find new recipes.  Also the crafting system ties into your overall leveling so it is useful to craft for more than just the items.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 624

2/04/13 4:31:19 PM#3

I think more in depth systems like Vanguard attract dedicated crafters while simple systems like GW2 mean anybody can play around with it casually. Both are valid systems and offer people choices.

I prefer mini games (as long as they are fun) over just click a button. I also prefer deep complex systems where i can differentiate myself from my fellow crafters.

You could look to minecraft as well for a decent crafting system.

But the main problem with most crafting systems in games imo is crafted products can't compete with items obtained from quests or drops. Plus with no item decay there is no real economy for items unless they are extremely scarce.


Elite Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 2057

2/04/13 5:34:36 PM#4

An additional observation I have to make on the Vanguard crafting comments works like this.

The complications and gear tweaks to avoid them are fun for a few months but once you learn that some of it is RNG related and that no amount of skill/stats you put into it matters, that's when it does become unrewarding. I love crafting. I like complicated crafting. I loved discovery. What I don't love is the RNG intruding on my effort. If you can keep that more predictable, things can be funner.

Short term the RNG can be ok, after that things can go sour, that one I experienced.

Thinking this I am reminded of grinding crafting in Runescape. Out of nowhere they have random events that teleport you somewhere to play a literal mini-game unrelated to what you were doing. I did enjoy those to decrease the tedium but I think the difference with that RNG was that it wasn't judging my output chances because of it, it just served a purpose to put my mind on another task in between crafting point increases. I didn't even know they removed them - what a mistake. They made grinding so much better and that game was all about grind. Learn something every day.

The difference in Vanguard was that the RNG there with enough "complications" could spoil my final product quality and there was nothing I could do to affect it effectively making all my experience seem like dookie when compared to the random nature of it. Example of complications -





Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 5293

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

2/04/13 5:41:05 PM#5

I really like eve's crafting system.


you can do many fancy things with the BPO to affect how it crafts, incluing time, materials, even discovering t2 stuff...


and it's all done in the labs and factories, without you staring at the cast bar.


it's a lot like real life...if you want a custom object made you give a company the specs, the money, the raw or semi-processed materials if you're supplying and its associates do the crafting, an ship you the finished good.


I've never seen a Honda employee come to a tier-2 supplier to craft a couple headrests or armrests...


Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1719

2/04/13 8:12:46 PM#6
More options are always good, but puzzles for puzzles sake alone isnt enough.  Maybe if there were some sort of relavence to the larger game then the puzzles would become fun, but I cannot think of any examples at the moment.  The only MMO that I enjoyed crafting in was SWG.

Play as your fav retro characters: My site: Blog:


Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

2/04/13 8:31:04 PM#7
Originally posted by greenreen

Thinking this I am reminded of grinding crafting in Runescape. Out of nowhere they have random events that teleport you somewhere to play a literal mini-game unrelated to what you were doing. I did enjoy those to decrease the tedium but I think the difference with that RNG was that it wasn't judging my output chances because of it, it just served a purpose to put my mind on another task in between crafting point increases. I didn't even know they removed them - what a mistake. They made grinding so much better and that game was all about grind. Learn something every day.


Take this as a learning experience in the area that not everything is what it seems.

Random events were put in just for the reason to catch (and kill sometimes, river troll, earth elemental, killing it with a pickaxe for 20minutes, surrounding players making bets on who would win, good times...) bots, not because of fun, in the past even the games camera would shift and rotate around a few pixels now and then to disable autoclickers.

In 2008, after they have removed free trading, there was simply no need for them, and since everyone was now expected to mine his 200k pure essence for runecrafting, they have suddenly become extremely annoying. :)

Flame on!



Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

2/04/13 11:35:09 PM#8

Here is my problem with one click crafting, you are not playing the game.  If you can press a button and go do something else then it is an application not a game, you are not playing or interacting with it.  In fact Isn't that called botting?  How come it is ok to do this for crafting (press a button and let the computer do all the 'work') while combat is somehow sacred (which can often be just as boring)?

I think crafting should be like any 'game', engaging, entertaining, interesting, and not boring, repedative, frustrating.  But MMO's are not paticularly good at that for any aspect of their games, so why should it be any different for crafting?  Everything seems to boil down to time/money sinks anymore.

Anyways, I'd say if you are going to add pushbutton crafting to your game, just leave it out, it adds really nothing to the game.  And if you are going to put in minigames dont make me press 2 when the light flashes, make it more of game, like poker, or tetris or plants vs zomies or peggle or world of goo or dont starve or a hidden object game...etc...somthing fun and engaging.


Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 2009

2/05/13 2:09:14 AM#9

I just want crafting to take "time".

So people can't craft 1000 of the same item and under cut people by 1 copper.

Something like the system fallen earth or atlantica online have. 


Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 6038

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

2/05/13 2:49:12 AM#10
Sure if you didn't have to do the mini-game for every piece you make. Certainly the puzzle is not going to be fun after your 1000th try. The key is, not to make it feel like a you're working at an assembly line. Atleast in Vanguard, I considered making a macro for myself. If a bot/macro could do it, a player shouldn't have to.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky


Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 186

2/05/13 3:01:48 AM#11
Originally posted by Quirhid
Sure if you didn't have to do the mini-game for every piece you make. Certainly the puzzle is not going to be fun after your 1000th try. The key is, not to make it feel like a you're working at an assembly line. Atleast in Vanguard, I considered making a macro for myself. If a bot/macro could do it, a player shouldn't have to.

That is exactly why every one of those 1000 times should be different or engaging.  Or more practically it could make 100 each time of one involved minigame, so it would take you say 10 levels of some fun minigame to get your 1000.

If a programer/designer cannot be bothered to make it interesting/fun then it probably shouldn't be in there in the first place.  And even more so why should we bother putting time into it if they don't.