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Originally posted by Arskaaa
Yeah like game wont have 3rd party site that sell best gear with rl money. same as D2...

just few month and ppl run with buyed gear.

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Obviously PoE already has black-market RMT, and will continue to do so as long as the game is popular, but it seems a little intellectually dishonest to describe a game as "pay 2 win" due to the actions of those players who deliberately violate the terms of service to buy and sell items for real money.

"Pay 2 win", to me, implies that you can pay money to "win" as part of the game design. Not that you can pay money to win if you are willing to violate the TOS and risk a banhammer.

Originally posted by Dampyre
very few games are P2W , people like to play make believe when it comes to this concept

P2W is a business model,  F2P is a concept.   Companies make money by allowing players to purchase advantages through their cash shop.  F2P could be a business model, but there hasn't been a single company that has allowed players entire access to a game for free and sought after another source of revenue. 

Originally posted by thinktank001

All cash shop games are P2W and this is due to the fundamental design of monetizing game mechanics.  PoE is just a lot more fair than most, since they have stayed away from the basic game mechanics.  I just wonder how long will they be able to stay with type of cash shop. 

i say every game you have to BUY is pay to win.

you cannot win when you dont own the game, can you? eg you have to PAY TO WIN.

next topic? :)

paying for power is pay 2 win the things that get called p2w 99% of the time on forums are not paying for power. If the game can sell you a weapon or some other thing that makes you measurably better than the other player especially in pvp that is P2W. Calling it a business model is totally false its a expression that people who really like subcription models toss around cause it gives them an excuse to bash a game.

  A huge amount of concepts gamers use on forums are patently false and do no exist anywhere else other than in the minds of angry children.

Originally posted by Dampyre

paying for power is pay 2 win the things that get called p2w 99% of the time on forums are not paying for power. If the game can sell you a weapon or some other thing that makes you measurably better than the other player especially in pvp that is P2W. Calling it a business model is totally false its a expression that people who really like subcription models toss around cause it gives them an excuse to bash a game.

  A huge amount of concepts gamers use on forums are patently false and do no exist anywhere else other than in the minds of angry children.

Pay to Win is very much a business model. The model is: we let competitive players  win against other competitive players in relevant competitions if they purchase stuff from us and through this we will increase our earnings significantely.

This was started as a PoE post about the game not being p2w ....It's not p2w. If you count new weapon skins or your abilitys "looks" are different then sure PoE is P2W if custom stash tabs are P2W then sure.

None of the items listed in the cash shop change your over all stats or abilitys in any way and no weapons or armor is in the shop. There are no exp gains or loot drop scrolls of any kind either.

So far the only things in the cash shop are storage options, More toon slots, the difference of apperance for some skills and weapons that's it. Nothing more nothing less. so all this "It's P2W" is total crap play the game before you dog it.

P.S. looking for more people to join us in PoE send me a priv msg here for info on our ts3