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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » 1.7 and the forced PVP debate

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79 posts found
  trancejeremy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 1219

2/10/13 9:50:17 PM#41
If PVP is so popular, why is it on every game I played, the PvP servers are the least crowded? Including this game. Very Heavy, Very Heavy, Heavy, and the PvP server is standard.

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/10/13 10:12:00 PM#42
Originally posted by trancejeremy
If PVP is so popular, why is it on every game I played, the PvP servers are the least crowded? Including this game. Very Heavy, Very Heavy, Heavy, and the PvP server is standard.

Who said anything about PVP being more popular? And just because there are more populated PVE servers doesn't mean that PVE is all those players want to do. Before all the mergers happened the most populated server was The Fatman, a PVP server. Since then the new content has been PVE focused so naturally the more PVP oriented players have left. Who knows what would have happened if Ilum hadn't been scrapped. 

The new event is going to happen in two days. Let's see how many players on those PVE servers skip the so-called "forced PVP" event ;)

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Thebigbopper

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/12/04
Posts: 114

2/10/13 10:26:43 PM#43

 Some people who like Pvp servers play on Pve servers because thier friends they play with do not like pvp. There are people too who like Pvp but like to choose when they want to pvp. Some people do not want to be ganked when hunting mobs when lvling but really enjoy pvp.

 This is not forcing people to pvp and no one will have to pvp that does not want to!

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/10/13 10:56:15 PM#44
Originally posted by Thebigbopper

 Some people who like Pvp servers play on Pve servers because thier friends they play with do not like pvp. There are people too who like Pvp but like to choose when they want to pvp. Some people do not want to be ganked when hunting mobs when lvling but really enjoy pvp.

 This is not forcing people to pvp and no one will have to pvp that does not want to!

Exactly. I like to PVP, but I also like to do questing in a gank free environment. PVE servers are perfect for this. If I want to PVP, I have warzones and soon I'll also have Ilum. If PVE only people don't want to be forced to PVP, then they can avoid warzones and Ilum. Plain and friggin simple. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1330

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

2/11/13 1:09:44 AM#45
Pffff," Hardcore PvE" players are just so used to being able to show of the best gear, they can't bear the thought of not getting something without having to actually PvP some. It's pretty pathetic, but there you have it. PvP-ers don't cry all over the forums because they can't get the raiders-only gear, but the PvE-ers a different crowd apparently.

  catlana

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/18/08
Posts: 1684

Playing GW2, ToR, PoE
Played AoC, Aion, DDO, EQ2, CoH, Rift, TERA, WAR, WoW

2/11/13 3:46:38 PM#46
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by Thebigbopper

 Some people who like Pvp servers play on Pve servers because thier friends they play with do not like pvp. There are people too who like Pvp but like to choose when they want to pvp. Some people do not want to be ganked when hunting mobs when lvling but really enjoy pvp.

 This is not forcing people to pvp and no one will have to pvp that does not want to!

Exactly. I like to PVP, but I also like to do questing in a gank free environment. PVE servers are perfect for this. If I want to PVP, I have warzones and soon I'll also have Ilum. If PVE only people don't want to be forced to PVP, then they can avoid warzones and Ilum. Plain and friggin simple. 

The above is pretty much my opinion as well. If you do not want to pvp, do not go to Ilum. I am not really sure why people are having an issue with that.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6509

"I fight so you don't have to."

2/11/13 3:49:31 PM#47
Originally posted by ktanner3

There is a big argument going on the forums over 1.7. Basically it comes down to PVE players wanting the new items from the new upcoming  Ilum event but not wanting to be "forced" as they put it to PVP in order to get them. This is deja vu for those of you that remember the cries of "forced PVP" in SWG over the Jedi profession and then Restuss.

 

Why is it that people who only PVE  think that every bit of new content that comes out should be made specifically for them? This game has tons of PVE only content and Makeb, which is a PVE only planet, will be released soon.  PVPers have had to do the same five warzones over and over again ever since Ilum was shut down. This is finally adding something interesting to the planet. 

Thoughts?

It's always been like that. PvE people somehow feel entitled to all the content where as PvP is some sort of afterthought, in most games. Even a so called PvP game like GW 2 has mostly PvE content.

The devs are creating the games though so probably the blame should be put on them.

  AG-Vuk

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/26/04
Posts: 818

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Oh, I see it's too late to help you.

2/11/13 4:10:36 PM#48
Let's see for most of the time spent leveling you don't see a player from the opposing faction. If you're on a PvE server you never interact.On PvP  ( your choice incidently ) you spend half the game with your head on a swivel ganking or getting ganked. Ilum was the worst for this on the pvp servers. Now that they are returning a the original purpose of ilum to the game , people have a problem with this ? Seriously Ilum was and has always been a pvp zone , nothing has changed other then a new mechanic and reason to go to ilum has been returned. The gear btw looks like ass. They need to seriously re-evaluate the people creating the gear.

  Marcus-

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/28/06
Posts: 968

2/11/13 5:18:01 PM#49

I do both, I PvP and PvE. I also realize there are items in (any) game i will/may never get. I will probably never get the highest of the high end game stuff from PvE, and may never get it from PvP.

I will never understand why people who limit themselves to one playstyle feel they should be allowed all content (rewards?) in the game. You are not "forced" to do anything. There are no special snowflakes in these games. No one game caters to my exact playstyle, and none probably caters to "yours".

Some folks who PvP role on PvE servers, they do it just so they can have PvP when they want to, under their own terms. They are no less deserving than anyone else. They know what areas to go to, and what areas to avoid when they don't feel like "it".

 

just my opinion, and now i'm going to get my flame retardant suit, because i'm feeling a bit warm 

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/11/13 5:34:03 PM#50
Originally posted by AG-Vuk
Let's see for most of the time spent leveling you don't see a player from the opposing faction. If you're on a PvE server you never interact.On PvP  ( your choice incidently ) you spend half the game with your head on a swivel ganking or getting ganked. Ilum was the worst for this on the pvp servers. Now that they are returning a the original purpose of ilum to the game , people have a problem with this ? Seriously Ilum was and has always been a pvp zone , nothing has changed other then a new mechanic and reason to go to ilum has been returned. The gear btw looks like ass. They need to seriously re-evaluate the people creating the gear.

You're giving a bad rep to the word ass because I've seen some pretty good ass in my day ;)

Seriously, at this point I would be content with them just having the pieces drop and let us put them in any gear we want. It's obvious that they can't get a designer whose idea of Star Wars isn't a marriage of  "Very Fabulous" and  "Swamp Thing". 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

2/11/13 10:51:02 PM#51

I'm considered a hater so I expect to be flamed.

I thought I would post in this thread instead of the Happy! Happy, Joy! Joy!  1.7 thread.

Just an opinion, but SWTOR has a bit of a toxic forum population.

"Forced PVP in a PVE game" post sentiments have led Bioware to restrict OP groups in the new Ilum to PVP servers.

A game that was touted to have Ilum as an ongoing 24-7 OPVP planet, now reduced to 4 man groups for most people.

You could say this is a convenient way to hide engine troubles, but they do offer OP groups on the PVP servers.

Not to be memeriffic, but you guys will argue about anything.

"Cross-server LFG ruins server community"

"3rd party mods ruin community"

"combat logs ruin community"

"chat bubbles are immersion breaking"

"min/maxers are cancer"

"OP progression guilds are elitist jerks"

"Animal mounts are stupid" (Bioware says they want to add them now.)

"Space combat was always meant to be a mini-game." (Secret Space project exsists, paradoxal)

"I don't know why you have problems, I get 200 FPS on fleet on my commodore 64"

"Freeloaders should stop bitching and sub"

"Sitting in chairs is stupid"

"Day nite cycles are dumb. It's a moment tin time. Besides the planets all have different orbits and day lengths."

"Weather is dumb."

"SGR is gay"

etc., etc. etc.

It seems that those players which weren't scared off from SWTOR for design and performance issues, if they aren't lock in step with the forum "Vocal Majority" minority, will be driven off with torches and pitchforks.

 

 

 

  Roin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 2877

2/11/13 11:16:36 PM#52

Personally I couldn't care one way or the other. Didn't really care about 1.7 until a few friends as well as guildies started talking about leaving game. Some are unhappy about the event being placed in Illum others are unhappy about the Rep grind direction. While I didn't care about the whole forced pvp thing, I was on the fence about the Rep Grind.

As it stands now though. Not too happy about it. Love TOR, have had an active account since the first day of early access. (Was the 3rd or 4th person to hit 50 on my server Kinarth Spider back then) Started a new legacy on JC just before the merging. Made friends there, joined a guild. Yet if this decision causes, most of them start leaving though, even I wouldn't stick around.  Though a good chunk of the people that had a problem with it in guild. Have been true to their word as some haven't logged on in days. Even as far as missing scheduled raid days.

I like TOR, have since I started. You want to stick a pve event in a pvp area. That's fine, doesn't bother me a bit. When said event causes people that I know to leave. Then I have a problem with it. If enough of them do leave, that would pretty much kill the raid progression teams. So this actually might end up being my last week in TOR.

In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

2/11/13 11:21:53 PM#53
Originally posted by steelheartx

Reminds me of the raiding v/s grouping arguments where players wanted the same gear as raiders, but w/o having to put the same effort into it  ;)

Timeless argument, just a different theme :(

The amount of effort the player feels they are experiencing is relative to the play style.  Raiding is a play style and should not be used as a benchmark on some arbitrary effort scale.  Questing and soloing content can be made to be just as challenging as a raid, but you raiders would still make a frakking stink if they got equitable rewards.  You use the effort strawman as a shield to justify your death grip on the game's reward system.

 

As to the topic at hand, the game has a major focus on PvE and therefore should offer content that earns the same rewards as PvP and vice versa.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

2/12/13 1:46:30 AM#54
SInce I'm bitching and moaning, the Tron outfits aside, the very idea that they stole the wandering Gree exploration ship from SGU of all places is comical. They do realize they have the Star Wars IP don't they?
  KariTR

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/05
Posts: 375

2/12/13 6:01:06 AM#55
Originally posted by trancejeremy
If PVP is so popular, why is it on every game I played, the PvP servers are the least crowded? Including this game. Very Heavy, Very Heavy, Heavy, and the PvP server is standard.

You're being too literal with server descriptions, just as those people who think only English can be spoken on an EN server. The descriptors only serve to highlight the primary playstyle/language, but it does not exclude other types. E.g. I am on a PvE server because it also happens to be RP-friendly. I spend about 30% of my game time PvPing and if the game still had RP-PvP servers when I started playing I would have rolled on one in a heartbeat.

PvP is popular, even on PvE servers: on my healer, I can still sometimes wait 10-20 minutes to get into a flashpoint for some group PvE, but join the PvP queue and you're in a warzone within a minute if not instantly. Playstyles are not exclusive, many of us enjoy all types of play.

  Azaron_Nightblade

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 1046

2/12/13 7:09:22 AM#56

People equate PvP servers with getting ganked non-stop, and even those who love to PvP most of the time might roll on a PvE server so that they have a chance to enjoy PvE content in peace too, when they choose to.

Not sure how the new event will work, guess it'll be wait and see.

My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7195

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

2/12/13 7:24:14 AM#57

I don't play this game, and I don't open world PvP these days, but a bit of being 'forced' into doing things that arew maybe outside one's comfort zone in these games is a good thing IMO.

I know we are all meant to be 'you're not the boss of me, man!' and all about personal choice and freedom, but sometimes it's healthy to be pushed into new areas/ styles of play and be given rules and boundaries in how we play.

 

My advice to the SWtOR players complaining about this would be... relax. They are only virtual items. Reality won't collapse of you don't have them.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

2/12/13 7:54:28 AM#58
Originally posted by KariTR
Originally posted by trancejeremy
If PVP is so popular, why is it on every game I played, the PvP servers are the least crowded? Including this game. Very Heavy, Very Heavy, Heavy, and the PvP server is standard.

You're being too literal with server descriptions, just as those people who think only English can be spoken on an EN server. The descriptors only serve to highlight the primary playstyle/language, but it does not exclude other types. E.g. I am on a PvE server because it also happens to be RP-friendly. I spend about 30% of my game time PvPing and if the game still had RP-PvP servers when I started playing I would have rolled on one in a heartbeat.

PvP is popular, even on PvE servers: on my healer, I can still sometimes wait 10-20 minutes to get into a flashpoint for some group PvE, but join the PvP queue and you're in a warzone within a minute if not instantly. Playstyles are not exclusive, many of us enjoy all types of play.

While our observations may be anecdotal in regards to server populations and what people are actually doing, this is not the case for the developers of the game.  WoW was one of the first development houses to really show hard data on what their players were doing on a regular basis.  That pie chart proved many things that most of us knew instinctively all along.  Less than 20% of their player base participated in raiding.  Around 20% regularly played PvP content.  Similar numbers participate in crafting.  The majority of gamers spent the majority of their time questing, adventuring and chatting in PvE.  It's pretty darn easy to see this trend in just about every game out there that offers the same mix of content, from UO to Aion to Rift and everything in between.

 

Just because there are decent numbers of people who like to PvP, does not excuse a sudden change in content deisgn that forces a primarily PvE gaming population into PvP content in order to attain the best rewards.  If they were intelligent, they would have offered a PvE route at the same time, but it would seem they either lack intelligence or are frakking lazy and this type of problem has a history of causing people to flee a game in droves.

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4146

Trolls will be ignored

 
OP  2/12/13 8:25:55 AM#59
Originally posted by Vorthanion
 

 

Just because there are decent numbers of people who like to PvP, does not excuse a sudden change in content deisgn that forces a primarily PvE gaming population into PvP content in order to attain the best rewards. 

I'm sorry, but with all the multiple tiers of armour that is already available to PVE, just how much more of an advatage do they need to beat a boss? This is not a change in design.They've had events like this since the beginning of the game. 

If they were intelligent, they would have offered a PvE route at the same time, but it would seem they either lack intelligence or are frakking lazy and this type of problem has a history of causing people to flee a game in droves.

For goodness sakes there is an entire expansion coming out in the spring that will be devoted to the questers. Plenty of exclusive leveling and loot oppertunites for the players who wet their pants at the thought of getting beat by an actual player. Nothing in that expansion will be for PVPers.  Is Bioware being stupid by not offering the same leveling prospects for people that hate questing? Give me a break. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7195

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

2/12/13 8:31:13 AM#60
Originally posted by ktanner3

...loot oppertunites for the players who wet their pants at the thought of getting beat by an actual player.

 

Maybe it's not playing vs a real player that's the issue for them... maybe it is the juvenile communities that tend to be drawn to this play style that's their issue? Maybe they just don't want to have to deal with other's hostile posturing in their precious leisure time?

Just a thought.  

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