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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Western devs bragging about what koreans already done

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  dwarflordking

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/05
Posts: 276

 
OP  2/02/13 12:37:38 PM#1

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

2/02/13 12:51:37 PM#2

1. Tera's combat sucks, its a watered down version of Vindictus's REAL action combat which was FASTER...who calls being rooted while casting magic and a hotkeyed dodge skill, ACTION? Just because it isnt tab targetting? lol. Also, that game did not introduce anything NEW to the market.

2. Guild Wars 2 has far more "action" in its combat by freeing casters to move and making dodge a non-skilled ability...and they are doing it while giving far more skills to use where as Tera has vastly limited character classes along with combat that is paced the same as other MMOs.

3. Yes, Western game makers are getting a dose in reality now...that is why almost all of them are admitting F2P and B2P are the future, because they finally looked at why most Korean companies are making more money then they are, and have a larger playerbase.

4. Crosshair aiming does not = action. Fast paced = action.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  dwarflordking

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/05
Posts: 276

 
OP  2/02/13 12:59:12 PM#3
Originally posted by jtcgs

1. Tera's combat sucks, its a watered down version of Vindictus's REAL action combat which was FASTER...who calls being rooted while casting magic and a hotkeyed dodge skill, ACTION? Just because it isnt tab targetting? lol. Also, that game did not introduce anything NEW to the market.

2. Guild Wars 2 has far more "action" in its combat by freeing casters to move and making dodge a non-skilled ability...and they are doing it while giving far more skills to use where as Tera has vastly limited character classes along with combat that is paced the same as other MMOs.

3. Yes, Western game makers are getting a dose in reality now...that is why almost all of them are admitting F2P and B2P are the future, because they finally looked at why most Korean companies are making more money then they are, and have a larger playerbase.

4. Crosshair aiming does not = action. Fast paced = action.

guildwars is a click and auto aim game, no way around it, tera is action with real time blocks and dodge.. [mod edit]

ps. i used tera as an example, vindictus is an even older game thats been using real time action.. that is ALSO KOREAN 

and that was my point

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

2/02/13 1:00:56 PM#4
Originally posted by dwarflordking
Originally posted by jtcgs

1. Tera's combat sucks, its a watered down version of Vindictus's REAL action combat which was FASTER...who calls being rooted while casting magic and a hotkeyed dodge skill, ACTION? Just because it isnt tab targetting? lol. Also, that game did not introduce anything NEW to the market.

2. Guild Wars 2 has far more "action" in its combat by freeing casters to move and making dodge a non-skilled ability...and they are doing it while giving far more skills to use where as Tera has vastly limited character classes along with combat that is paced the same as other MMOs.

3. Yes, Western game makers are getting a dose in reality now...that is why almost all of them are admitting F2P and B2P are the future, because they finally looked at why most Korean companies are making more money then they are, and have a larger playerbase.

4. Crosshair aiming does not = action. Fast paced = action.

guildwars is a click and auto aim game, no way around it, tera is action with real time blocks and dodge.. are you blind?

ps. i used tera as an example, vindictus is an even older game thats been using real time action.. that is ALSO KOREAN 

and that was my point

Can you link to the article where the western dev was bragging about one of the points you are mentioning so we have some context as to what this is about?

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13779

2/02/13 1:54:08 PM#5
Infantry had action combat in an online game way back in the last millennium.  It's not new, though it is becoming a lot more common in MMORPGs lately.
  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4814

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

2/02/13 1:57:02 PM#6
Originally posted by dwarflordking

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

the player - character relationship is a concept you seem to have no knowledge of.

 

Why must the player aim when the character is the one on the battlefield ?

 

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17611

2/02/13 1:59:54 PM#7
Originally posted by jtcgs

1. Tera's combat sucks, its a watered down version of Vindictus's REAL action combat which was FASTER...who calls being rooted while casting magic and a hotkeyed dodge skill, ACTION? Just because it isnt tab targetting? lol. Also, that game did not introduce anything NEW to the market.

disagree, Tera's combat is far better than Vindictus. oh well to each his own.

  Razperil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/04
Posts: 307

Everything has it's time and its place, know yours?

2/02/13 2:14:27 PM#8
Originally posted by dwarflordking

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

As someone already asked, where is your supposed link to this? Blowing air our of your rear end does not do anyone any good, now does it?

  Razperil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/04
Posts: 307

Everything has it's time and its place, know yours?

2/02/13 2:15:45 PM#9
Originally posted by dwarflordking
Originally posted by jtcgs

1. Tera's combat sucks, its a watered down version of Vindictus's REAL action combat which was FASTER...who calls being rooted while casting magic and a hotkeyed dodge skill, ACTION? Just because it isnt tab targetting? lol. Also, that game did not introduce anything NEW to the market.

2. Guild Wars 2 has far more "action" in its combat by freeing casters to move and making dodge a non-skilled ability...and they are doing it while giving far more skills to use where as Tera has vastly limited character classes along with combat that is paced the same as other MMOs.

3. Yes, Western game makers are getting a dose in reality now...that is why almost all of them are admitting F2P and B2P are the future, because they finally looked at why most Korean companies are making more money then they are, and have a larger playerbase.

4. Crosshair aiming does not = action. Fast paced = action.

guildwars is a click and auto aim game, no way around it, tera is action with real time blocks and dodge.. are you blind?

ps. i used tera as an example, vindictus is an even older game thats been using real time action.. that is ALSO KOREAN 

and that was my point

Your point is all about your own opinion, nothing more. We're still waiting for that link :)

  jonrd463

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/24/09
Posts: 608

2/02/13 2:17:38 PM#10
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by dwarflordking

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

the player - character relationship is a concept you seem to have no knowledge of.

 

Why must the player aim when the character is the one on the battlefield ?

 

You just summed up what is wrong with all modern MMORPGs. The invasion of the "I'm a pro gamer with skillz!" set that have slowly turned virtual worlds into virtual arenas, completely removing the RPG aspect. Here's hoping the resurgence of the sandbox will herald the return of character-driven play.

"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  User Deleted
2/02/13 2:19:47 PM#11
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jtcgs

1. Tera's combat sucks, its a watered down version of Vindictus's REAL action combat which was FASTER...who calls being rooted while casting magic and a hotkeyed dodge skill, ACTION? Just because it isnt tab targetting? lol. Also, that game did not introduce anything NEW to the market.

disagree, Tera's combat is far better than Vindictus. oh well to each his own.

Zod agrees, however Vindictus combat is more enjoyable...

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3859

RIP City of Heroes!

2/02/13 2:20:20 PM#12
Originally posted by dwarflordking

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

 As long as the customer based is getting worked up about 'innovation" expect companies to use the term to sucker you into purchasing the game.

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2702

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

2/02/13 2:20:59 PM#13
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by jtcgs

1. Tera's combat sucks, its a watered down version of Vindictus's REAL action combat which was FASTER...who calls being rooted while casting magic and a hotkeyed dodge skill, ACTION? Just because it isnt tab targetting? lol. Also, that game did not introduce anything NEW to the market.

disagree, Tera's combat is far better than Vindictus. oh well to each his own.

I concur, Vindictus combat is a step back because it uses autolocking. That's like saying gaming in a FPS using aimbot is a superior playing experience than gaming without it. I guess it would be if you lack the skill to aim yourself.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  simmihi

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 527

2/02/13 2:25:18 PM#14
I agree with one thing, the western devs really need a reality check. We are starting to lose our specific MMO philosophy which gave birth to games with depth, great character customisation, planning, complexity, player reputation, sense of comunity. Instead we're gaining shallow games, with close to none RPG elements and this "action real time combat" crap which brings a ton of moro... errr "leet people" to the genre. These are not mmoRPG's, now we got FPS games with levels, even those levels being pointless, as your stat-points and everything are usually auto-allocated, skills auto-learned, auto-crafting etc. No wonder everyone quits after 2 weeks.
  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

2/02/13 2:35:00 PM#15

Action in western MMORPGs is still a fairly new concept for the greater part of the industry.

 

As for the bragging part, that's part of normal business operations, and has been for years.  When entering a market that's new for a company, treat your product as if your company invented the concept even if there are others already doing much of the same.  Consumers buy the hype and seldom question it.

 

For example, I have this great new concept I'm working on.  It's a green energy human powered transportation system, ultra light weight, very portable, and features low operating costs.  Various models will be introduced, custom fit for people of all ages.  It's truly innovative technology.

 

 

Now, this is transportation for the 21st century!

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  CalmOceans

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1937

2/02/13 2:36:38 PM#16

The only thing I liked about Korean MMO was the combat of Vindictus which was animated really well. All the rest has been pretty bad.

And even though the combat in Vindictus is fun for the first few hours, you quickly realise it's just a solo action game, it has nothing on gameplay of some MMO from the West.

I don't know where people are playing these "amazing" korean MMO. Aion and Tera? They're pretty bad games in my eyes. What else is there.

  dwarflordking

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/05
Posts: 276

 
OP  2/02/13 2:37:22 PM#17
Originally posted by Quizzical
Infantry had action combat in an online game way back in the last millennium.  It's not new, though it is becoming a lot more common in MMORPGs lately.

who cares about an obscure reference ... its not the norm

alot more common in korea not here, western devs brag as if they have it, but they dont.. go look at dragon nest and tell me what looks like that from the west?

  dumpcat

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 253

2/02/13 2:38:58 PM#18
Originally posted by jonrd463
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by dwarflordking

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

the player - character relationship is a concept you seem to have no knowledge of.

 

Why must the player aim when the character is the one on the battlefield ?

 

You just summed up what is wrong with all modern MMORPGs. The invasion of the "I'm a pro gamer with skillz!" set that have slowly turned virtual worlds into virtual arenas, completely removing the RPG aspect. Here's hoping the resurgence of the sandbox will herald the return of character-driven play.

This.

Tera is a terrible MMO with little RPG value and depth. The combat is fun for a little while but it it is not an attention keeper.

  dwarflordking

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/05
Posts: 276

 
OP  2/02/13 2:40:10 PM#19
Originally posted by Razperil
Originally posted by dwarflordking

Every time a new western mmo comes out they would brag that its innovative and new, 

 

but makes no mention that koreans have been doing it for years.. a full blown console level real time action game like tera has been around forever and nothing in the west has come close in terms of gameplay and style of action..

 

yet games like guildwars and ESO start bragging about its dated combat..  I remember SWTOR bragging the crap out of its amazing innovative combat system.. when you actually see the game its the same point and click crap...

 

Why dont they look at the competition and see that they are inferior.. look at a kiddy mmo like dragon nest and watch a pvp battle and tell me what in the west matches that? its real time action with every action conducted by the crosshair aiming.. no auto aim crap....

 

Do western devs need a reality check? they are way behind in innovation/ style/ gamplay.. sure theres shitty korean games but there are amazing ones and they outnumber western games by alot

As someone already asked, where is your supposed link to this? Blowing air our of your rear end does not do anyone any good, now does it?

Do i have to get a link?? every time a new big western mmo comes out it makes a big deal about fake action... go watch ESO 9 min trailer right now,  they talk about real time action, the range attacks are all auto aim! deal breaker

go watch devs talk about GW2 before it came out, or STWOR .. they all talk and use action as a selling point, but really its the same shit since WOW came out.. 

 

 

  Ezhae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 735

2/02/13 2:44:12 PM#20

And yet you manage to forget about certain things...

Vindictus combat - yeah, sure, decent spectacle fighter ocmbat but.. at cost of all the content being instanced. It's a lobby game, which means more freedom with fancy mechanics and lesser reliance on latency issues. 

Tera - similarly, rooting during combat animation is not exaclty fluid/responsive combat. If a spectacle fighter (DmC, GoW, Bayonetta,e tc.) would do this, they'd get laughed off. 

None of the MMOs yet comes even close to combat from singleplayer games even tho attempts at this been going on for years. The echnolgoys imply sin't possible just yet, it's damnc lose but still no cigar. 

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