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WWII Online: Battleground Europe

World War II Online 

General Discussion  » What would happen if CRS...

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33 posts found
  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

2/10/13 1:26:56 PM#21
Originally posted by david06

 


Originally posted by anfiach`
Yet you complain about spawn delay.... I used to spawn in and fight despite being underpopped, I don't know why you think you had a special situation. Playing a combat game and avoiding combat at all costs? That's why HC and AOs were born in the first place.

 

Playing a competitive game, expecting the other team to spawn where you want them to and play only in the manner that you prefer, then lobbying the game developers to force them when they refuse doesn't make sense.


If people want to get together and goof off for awhile instead of reenacting Pickett's charge for the 11tybillionth time it's something they should be able to do in a MMO, especially it's not against the rules.


And both the high commands and the flashing boxes have been failures, the only debate is to what extent. Spawn delay kills enthusiasm during large periods of server activity and it did kill off the last large squad/alliance, so there had better be a huge benefit to it somewhere and I don't want to hear some vague invocation like "saved the game".

I expect other people to compete, not avoid competing. The entire premise of the game is fighting. Your complaints all center around the inability to avoid fighting altogether. As for that last large squad, they prided themselves on taking empty towns and avoiding the few defenders that were online. They didn't care if the other side was logging off completely and that there was no competition in this competitive game. They didn't care about the game or the community.

Seems to be a running theme here. Some people don't want competition in a competetive game.

  Zbus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/07
Posts: 119

2/10/13 3:30:59 PM#22
Originally posted by anfiach`
Originally posted by david06

 


Originally posted by anfiach`
Yet you complain about spawn delay.... I used to spawn in and fight despite being underpopped, I don't know why you think you had a special situation. Playing a combat game and avoiding combat at all costs? That's why HC and AOs were born in the first place.

 

Playing a competitive game, expecting the other team to spawn where you want them to and play only in the manner that you prefer, then lobbying the game developers to force them when they refuse doesn't make sense.


If people want to get together and goof off for awhile instead of reenacting Pickett's charge for the 11tybillionth time it's something they should be able to do in a MMO, especially it's not against the rules.


And both the high commands and the flashing boxes have been failures, the only debate is to what extent. Spawn delay kills enthusiasm during large periods of server activity and it did kill off the last large squad/alliance, so there had better be a huge benefit to it somewhere and I don't want to hear some vague invocation like "saved the game".

I expect other people to compete, not avoid competing. The entire premise of the game is fighting. Your complaints all center around the inability to avoid fighting altogether. As for that last large squad, they prided themselves on taking empty towns and avoiding the few defenders that were online. They didn't care if the other side was logging off completely and that there was no competition in this competitive game. They didn't care about the game or the community.

Seems to be a running theme here. Some people don't want competition in a competetive game.

Thats because you only see one version of competition thats the active combat role. There used to be tons of roles one could play in this game all of which for the most part have been removed in favor of forceing everyone into a box to fight it out to the death night after night. I will tell you it does not take long to become bored of the frontal assault into a set defense tactics of the current system so they leave feeling like there is nothing to do beyond spawn and die rinse and repeat. Hell I can do that in other games and at least wouldnt have to put up with 1990's graphics, spawn delay and tons of bugs.

  david06

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 183

2/10/13 3:41:11 PM#23


Originally posted by anfiach`
I expect other people to compete, not avoid competing. The entire premise of the game is fighting. Your complaints all center around the inability to avoid fighting altogether. As for that last large squad, they prided themselves on taking empty towns and avoiding the few defenders that were online. They didn't care if the other side was logging off completely and that there was no competition in this competitive game. They didn't care about the game or the community.

Seems to be a running theme here. Some people don't want competition in a competetive game.


There was nothing stopping the other team from dropping paratroopers(they did have close air fields and total superiority) or driving in a truck to stop a measly 10-15 half drunk players from capturing town. Had they tried to defend instead of running to CRS then there might've been a battle or two, ones quite different from the usual grind. If this game's veterans are to be believed that sort of thing was a necessity back in the old days.


Anyway regardless of what kind of players or game play should be "proper" in WW2online, social gaming is a huge draw. A lot of people don't really play a game, but they play with a group of friends. You are more than welcome to think that the game is better off without large squads.

  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

2/10/13 4:13:33 PM#24
Every game is better off without people so arrogant as to think that the rest of the population don't matter. 
  pittpete

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/10
Posts: 243

2/10/13 4:24:58 PM#25

Spawn delay by itself is a terrible feature.

Spawn delay coupled with lowering underpop timers and increasing overpop timers should've been implemented a long time ago.

It would've been a start.

  Tontoman

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/07
Posts: 197

2/10/13 7:21:40 PM#26
Originally posted by anfiach`
Every game is better off without people so arrogant as to think that the rest of the population don't matter. 

Yeah, but you also don't want to wreck the game (for some) for the sake of controlling a few.  It's difficult as even map issues mattered different amounts to different people.  Some thought it was a failure if some cities got ninja capped, or capped low pop.  While other didn't care (up to a certain amount) as long as combat was good.  

While I found it annoying finding 4-5 cities were lost overnight, it didn't put me off the game.   Combat and fun times rolling with the squad was still there.  So what if other groups wanted to cap empty towns, didn't stop my combat fun.  The only times it annoyed me was when a town I was looking forward to got done during the night.

Problem is, when all the controls to slow down caps (AO's, timers etc.) were introduced THAT did effect my combat enjoyment.  It did for lots of people as the great exodus started.  Which made things worse as with fewer players, those tools got more extreme.

So to fix a map issues that didn't effect players combat, they screwed around with everyones combat game.  I have some sympathy for CRS as so many people were complaining about map issues.  But once the solution (or attempt at one) turned out to be terrible, they should have back out.

  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

2/10/13 8:59:20 PM#27
That's fair. Personally I think TO&E was a disaster. Removing the Allied supply line restriction was a must but the rest? Caused nothing but issues. Not to mention the over filling of the supply roster just to try and impress returning Allied players into subbing.... it worked for a short time, till the Axis morale was so low they had to start tweaking things to favor the Axis after bringing supply back to normal just to stop them from logging off. 300 seconds of SD? That's just insane. CRS is hamfisted with their solutions, always has been. Problem is, players benefitting from the issues are the ones that don't want the solutions at all no matter what they are.
  Silky303

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/10
Posts: 137

2/10/13 11:13:11 PM#28
ToES as a neutral game mechanic represents a better simulation than town supply. It's more authentic and more accurate. HC is a good concept and IMO fits with the design of ToES.

What was missing when the systems changed was an appreciation of how the game actually worked; how player input made the game tick. So it should have been understood that changing the spawn and supply mechanism was going to massively shift the way the game played for the squad/player matrix.

Moving to ToES should have been accompanied by a complete overhaul in the command-control tools to ensure that the squad-centric system wasn't lost through loss of ties to game brigades, command responsibility wasn't suddenly foisted onto HC only and the Map OiC position had adequate tools. There should have been an immediate reaction when complaints about infinite Bde rotation were aired and the loss of entire squads should have started emergency alarms going off.

But my point remains, that was 6 years ago. SOE should've left the CU well alone and should've worked on getting a working Galactic Civil War.

SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

2/11/13 12:02:02 AM#29
Originally posted by Silky303
ToES as a neutral game mechanic represents a better simulation than town supply. It's more authentic and more accurate. HC is a good concept and IMO fits with the design of ToES.

What was missing when the systems changed was an appreciation of how the game actually worked; how player input made the game tick. So it should have been understood that changing the spawn and supply mechanism was going to massively shift the way the game played for the squad/player matrix.

Moving to ToES should have been accompanied by a complete overhaul in the command-control tools to ensure that the squad-centric system wasn't lost through loss of ties to game brigades, command responsibility wasn't suddenly foisted onto HC only and the Map OiC position had adequate tools. There should have been an immediate reaction when complaints about infinite Bde rotation were aired and the loss of entire squads should have started emergency alarms going off.

But my point remains, that was 6 years ago. SOE should've left the CU well alone and should've worked on getting a working Galactic Civil War.

And everything since then has been to prop that up and fill the holes so it's still relevant. I don't want TO&E gone I want the issues associated with it fixed.

 

  Zbus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/07
Posts: 119

2/11/13 4:14:41 AM#30
Originally posted by Silky303
ToES as a neutral game mechanic represents a better simulation than town supply. It's more authentic and more accurate. HC is a good concept and IMO fits with the design of ToES.

What was missing when the systems changed was an appreciation of how the game actually worked; how player input made the game tick. So it should have been understood that changing the spawn and supply mechanism was going to massively shift the way the game played for the squad/player matrix.

Moving to ToES should have been accompanied by a complete overhaul in the command-control tools to ensure that the squad-centric system wasn't lost through loss of ties to game brigades, command responsibility wasn't suddenly foisted onto HC only and the Map OiC position had adequate tools. There should have been an immediate reaction when complaints about infinite Bde rotation were aired and the loss of entire squads should have started emergency alarms going off.

But my point remains, that was 6 years ago. SOE should've left the CU well alone and should've worked on getting a working Galactic Civil War.

HC was never a good idea and CRS was warned of this way in advance. In fact the arguement then was the same as now you put to much control of the game into the hands of to few people.

Someone just needs to answer a real simple question has the HC/AO/TOE system been sucess or a failure? No 20/20 hindsight trying to explain it, reason it  or defend it just a simple answer.

If your being honest with yourself then you know its been a failure so getting rid of it seems to be the only reasonable thing to do. No you dont have to go back to town based supply and squads but anything other than the current setup would at least show the playerbase that efforts are being made to change by CRS.  

  Silky303

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/10
Posts: 137

2/11/13 5:48:49 AM#31
With regard to the other topic here, if we think about ways the dev team could reach out and try to reconnect with lost players and squads, a starting point would be to look at AO/HC/ToEs etc

But judging it a success or failure depends on what the objective was. If it was grow the playerbase, you'd have to say failure. If it was to better simulate WW2, you could argue success, after all the game is still going and the players who enjoy it, enjoy it.

The missing piece is that understanding how much the game relies on individuals, and that running through all implications of a change is a vital part of managing change. You learn that industry very very quickly.

SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  anfiach`

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 111

2/11/13 6:01:08 AM#32
Both sides need to start by putting away their egos.
  Zbus

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/07
Posts: 119

2/11/13 7:53:38 PM#33
The truth is in the numbers. Spin it however you like it will not change the facts on the matter. Besides HC/AO had its time in the sun and it failed they need to pack up and move on to a better system if they want people to resub and to attract new players.
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