So the other day there was this thread about Scarlet Blade and it's rather skimpy armor. I don't know much about this game, but someone mentioned it was only female models in the game and it got me thinking. In most mmo's that I've played, I would say there is a highest percentage of female avatars and i'm doubting it because mostly women play mmorpgs.  I think it boils down to a large portion of male players, would prefer to see a female character.

Now I don't want to let this thread derail into "why I play female characters" discussion so please don't take it there.

There are definately differences between men and women that go beyond the types of equipment each is packing. Men are statistically heavier, stronger, taller, and so on.  So why are these differences not kept within games like mmorpgs?

Now I'm not implying that female characters should be gimped either, but what if the females were disadvantaged in one area and strengthened in another.  And more, that the female characters were designed in such a way that would benefit the "average" female play preference.

unfortunately, I do not claim to understand what an "average" female gamer would want, nor do I imply that women deserve any less than what a man deserves.  I'm not trying to be sexist, or bias, or create any angst.

I simply suggest, that creating a bit of disparity between the choices of sex in a videogame, may create a better balance within the game world. I suggest that when people decide what sex they choose to play, they are left to choose between the sacrifices of that choice as well as the benefits.  

EDIT: The reason I titled it so, is as a play on words about the excessive use of the jiggly bits in many modern mmo's.

I really have no preference. I just pick which sex I am making the character based on my race/class combo.

For instance...

Warrior Human - Male

Warrior - elf - Female

Cleric - always Female

Ranger Human - Male

Ranger Elf - Female

Dwarf - always Male

Etc, etc, etc.

I have no issue with what you say as it makes sense. But as others said...people are touchy and ready to whine easily.

Having the disparity is like 80s RPGs.

The reson the female characters are all built perfect is because...the males are too. People just don't think twice about what they look like.

If gender equility bothers you, but you have no difficulty in the jump in power between level 1 and level 2 characters or the relative equality of humans and elves, then I think it's pretty clear that consciously or unconsciously, you're just searching for an excuse to validate a sexist viewpoint.

There are some games where sex has an influence on your character's stats. The problem is that, just as race, sex influences your character's looks greatly. Letting it influence stats would "force" optimisers (most MMO players in one way or another) to pick a certain sex for their char. People don't like that.

That's why many modern games make racial bonuses so tiny they don't matter much.

In a politically correct world you are not going to see any attempt to give different genders stat differences. Unless we are talking about 36-24-36.

Modern MMO’s have moved in the direction of ironing out all distinctions between players. Reducing or eliminating differences in races, classes, PvE v PvP ability, usefulness in group v soloing. So introducing gender based differences would never take of.

It also seems a bit pointless to me, MMO’s have much deeper problems to worry about.

I always make my melee characters male and my casters female. Don't ask me why, I just think they look better.

As for Mass Effect, I play Male Shepard if I play Paragon and I play female Shepard if I play Renegade as that's the way I prefer the acting the voice actors potray those roles, and the fact that Renegade Femshep is more fun too.

Originally posted by maplestone

If gender equility bothers you, but you have no difficulty in the jump in power between level 1 and level 2 characters or the relative equality of humans and elves, then I think it's pretty clear that consciously or unconsciously, you're just searching for an excuse to validate a sexist viewpoint.

If you can't read my OP and see that I am clearly NOT being sexist in any way, than I think you have shown that conciously or unconciously, you have your own sexist viewpoint. Just because things are different, doesn't make them unequal.

Originally posted by eyelolled

Now I'm not implying that female characters should be gimped either, but what if the females were disadvantaged in one area and strengthened in another.  And more, that the female characters were designed in such a way that would benefit the "average" female play preference.

I simply suggest, that creating a bit of disparity between the choices of sex in a videogame, may create a better balance within the game world. I suggest that when people decide what sex they choose to play, they are left to choose between the sacrifices of that choice as well as the benefits. 

Mainly because it doesn't work.

You've seen players argue (incessantly) over minor differences like Racial Abilities when discussing PVP, right?

Now consider balancing strength vs speed...is possibility, at all, that one won't be analyzed to be "better" than the other?

Resulting in--yep, SoTM (sex of the month).

Gamers are already much too prone to stampeding from class to class or build to build...even server to server seeking the tiniest of "I Win" buttons.

For me it depends on how the character model looks and how they look in the armor. In LOTRO all my characters were male. IN GW1, it was 50/50 with a male monk and ele, female warrior and necro (both of these in male characters looked terrible). In GW2 I have one lvl 80 male Charr Guardian and  a lvl 80 Female Norn Ranger and planning to start others, just haven't decided.. In TERA, well this game is hard since one race is only female and one is furry ( :-)  ) but it was 50/50.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by eyelolled

Now I'm not implying that female characters should be gimped either, but what if the females were disadvantaged in one area and strengthened in another.  And more, that the female characters were designed in such a way that would benefit the "average" female play preference.

I simply suggest, that creating a bit of disparity between the choices of sex in a videogame, may create a better balance within the game world. I suggest that when people decide what sex they choose to play, they are left to choose between the sacrifices of that choice as well as the benefits. 

Mainly because it doesn't work.

You've seen players argue (incessantly) over minor differences like Racial Abilities when discussing PVP, right?

Now consider balancing strength vs speed...is possibility, at all, that one won't be analyzed to be "better" than the other?

Resulting in--yep, SoTM (sex of the month).

Gamers are already much too prone to stampeding from class to class or build to build...even server to server seeking the tiniest of "I Win" buttons.

I see your point, and I realize that any sort of excuse for people to complain will be overblown. Does that mean the logical solution is to remove any disparity between classes completely, as well as every possible thing that might be different?

Your argument could be put against weapons as well, people complaining because daggers dont do as much as halberds, etc.

Basically, I'm just saying that these balancing issues exist anyhow. I'm just curious to what people think of having them applied in regards to sex. 

You could also consider it like this. Having men receive a +20 bonus to strength and women receiving a +20 bonus to dexterity, is really no different that having Orc's receive a +20 bonus to strength and elves receiving a +20 bonus to dexterity.

And remember, the reasons that I was directed down this line of thinking is that a developer was making a game with no male characters.  To me, it seems the "sex sells" aspect of mmorpg games creates a progression towards a game world filled with  childlike adults and female characters running around.  So if it's not a disparity between a particular sex's mechanics, than what can we do to bring more male characters into game worlds?

Originally posted by maplestone

If gender equility bothers you, but you have no difficulty in the jump in power between level 1 and level 2 characters or the relative equality of humans and elves, then I think it's pretty clear that consciously or unconsciously, you're just searching for an excuse to validate a sexist viewpoint.

 Are you seriously thinking that men and women aren't different?

It's not sexist to say that women could have a dexterity bonus while men have a strength bonus.  Generally that's correct.. sorry to inform you.  Not always... but generally.

I'd also give women a disease resistance over men too... or a diplomacy bonus.

I assume you're talking human. No one would confuse a female Asura with Barbie. Norn women can be on the thick side. Charr females don't even have the "mammaries" that most humanoid females sport. 

Species matters.

The problem with this idea is it takes women and men as statistics. I for one fall into the general classification of what you mention for women,but there are some that do not. 

I think about Game of Thrones and Brienne of Tarth. For a woman she is super strong and not so graceful. They do play on her "womanly weaknesses" but overall she is a very strong "manly" woman character. I think to be completely fair everyone should be equal. If you want to be a beefy woman, then so be it! If you want to be a scrawny man, have at it good sir! 

In the end I like choices and diversity, but I believe that having everything equal makes sense. Taking an average just shows you the average, not every individual member. Think about this...would you want to fight some of those body builder girls?

Originally posted by LadyEuphei

The problem with this idea is it takes women and men as statistics. I for one fall into the general classification of what you mention for women,but there are some that do not. 

I think about Game of Thrones and Brienne of Tarth. For a woman she is super strong and not so graceful. They do play on her "womanly weaknesses" but overall she is a very strong "manly" woman character. I think to be completely fair everyone should be equal. If you want to be a beefy woman, then so be it! If you want to be a scrawny man, have at it good sir! 

In the end I like choices and diversity, but I believe that having everything equal makes sense. Taking an average just shows you the average, not every individual member. Think about this...would you want to fight some of those body builder girls?

Actually that brings up something I would rather see.  I don't support trait differences in male vs female characters, yes there would be some somewhat accurate generalizations.  However those generalizations have more to do with form resulting in function than gender resulting in form (yes we know hormonal differences exist which influence the form which then determine the function, lets not go there).

I would be very interested in having the body shape you choose determine your stats, or the other way you determine your stats which then dictate your body form.  That could be kinda fun.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by eyelolled

Now I'm not implying that female characters should be gimped either, but what if the females were disadvantaged in one area and strengthened in another.  And more, that the female characters were designed in such a way that would benefit the "average" female play preference.

I simply suggest, that creating a bit of disparity between the choices of sex in a videogame, may create a better balance within the game world. I suggest that when people decide what sex they choose to play, they are left to choose between the sacrifices of that choice as well as the benefits. 

Mainly because it doesn't work.

You've seen players argue (incessantly) over minor differences like Racial Abilities when discussing PVP, right?

Now consider balancing strength vs speed...is possibility, at all, that one won't be analyzed to be "better" than the other?

Resulting in--yep, SoTM (sex of the month).

Gamers are already much too prone to stampeding from class to class or build to build...even server to server seeking the tiniest of "I Win" buttons.

 +1 for SoTM.

I am still laughing.

Edit: If you want to vary stats, tie them to the sliders at creation. Big arms = +strength, Small = +dex, yadda yadda. Then man or woman or smoothie, stats would match body type.