Originally posted by baphamet

not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?

not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.

from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)

its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.

whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?

i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.

 

 

 Because Diablo 1 and 2 were good games, and WoW was a piece of crap.

If it was a D3 clone people would be hating on it, but thankfully it isnt.

Also Diablo was not the first ARPG. The original Gauntlet probably takes that honour. Noone calls Diablo a Gauntlet clone.

Originally posted by baphamet

not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?

not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.

from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)

its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.

whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?

i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.

 

 

great post.

i imagine many on this site read this and then the vein in their forehead throbbed for a good while.

they have no reason. and that is why i consider them bias, irrational, and close-minded.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

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Originally posted by Seillan

 

You've got to be the only guy on this forum that is surprised by this. No Sh*t it uses many elements from D2; I think the GGG devs did a pretty amazing job at making that as obvious as possible. The thing is, that's what many of us wanted. GGG was able to give us an ARPG that encompasses many of the familiarities of D2, while at the same time adding a ton of innovations that put it in its own class entirely (or do you know of a bunch of other ARPGs that use a bartering system and have passive skill trees with over 1300 abilities?) That's not even getting into the absurd amount of gem combinations.But that wasn't even the point of your post anyway, was it? You asked why "D2 clone" isn't used as a derogatory title, similar to the way "WoW clone" is. Well, that question has already been answered a few times, but I'll say it again for emphasis - WoW is regarded by many, to be a phenomenal step backwards in the progression of mmorpgs.

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and i have already addressed that argument a few times as well.

is wow the only game that people refer to when labeling a game a clone?

wow itself was labeled a clone and frowned upon because it directly ripped off features from EQ and Daoc.

were those games considered a "phenomenal step backward" for the genre? i think not.

i also remember in the past when game such as dungeon siege took heat for being a D2 clone.

but the most telling thing of all is your game must be extremely successful in order to have that kind of impact where games are trying to mimic what you are doing.

back in D2's golden years, that was the game that other companies were trying to mimic and so was EQ and Daoc, among a few others.

so yeah, i actually think it has much more to so with people not liking those types of games and using the "clone" label as an excuse to trash it.

 

Yes, WoW incorporated elements from games like EQ and DAoC, but I've never once seen anyone saying it "directly ripped off" anything from either of those games, at least not when it was initially released. Blizzard did what just about any decent developer does when creating a game - utilize existing strengths, while alternating and innovating to their own design. That's what they did, and they obviously did a good job at it. It, in no way, "directly ripped off" anything, and I'm starting to get the feeling you don't even know what you, yourself, mean by that statement. They took some fundamental ideas that harken all the way back to the D&D era, and built upon them in their own way. It was the steamlining and linearity of WoW that people criticized about it and considered a step backward, not what it borrowed from the games before it.

The plethora of games that started coming out, after WoW hit the height of its popularity, were the ones potentially guilty of the "clone" title, as many of them copied the game almost to a T with little to no innovation of their own. It's mmorpgs like that, that are looked down upon because they appear lazy, unimaginative, and likely only designed as a money grab riding on the coattails of the success of another. PoE doesn't fit that mold at all. Just as Blizzard did with WoW, GGG incorporated familiar, favorable elements that were/are popular in the genre, while also adding many of their own unique innovations and systems. It's not simply just a "clone" like you're trying to argue, and it's certainly not a "direct rip off". If you truly believe that, I have to assume you're trolling at this point.

So yeah, I don't know what else you want people to say. You think this game is a "direct rip off" of diablo 2, and it's been explained many times already that that's simply not the case. But screw it, it's not like you're actually going to read and consider anything that contradicts what you're saying, so why not just let this thread die? As it is, the only argument you really have is, "It uses a similar UI, graphics style/atmosphere, as well as a few other mainly cosmetic things, so it's clearly a "D2 clone/rip off", and frankly, that's not a very strong platform to stand on.

Originally posted by Zairu

Originally posted by baphamet

not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?

not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.

from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)

its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.

whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?

i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.

 

 

 

 

great post.

 

i imagine many on this site read this and then the vein in their forehead throbbed for a good while.

they have no reason. and that is why i consider them bias, irrational, and close-minded.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you didn't read anything past the first post in this thread.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

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Originally posted by MMOGamer71
OP likes "hearing" himself talk and I'm waiting for him to open 1st Edition PnP D&D and see Diablo is a clone.

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I'm waiting for people like you to actually read posts before you respond.

but using your logic, why call any game a clone? or is it just okay to label the games you don't like a "clone" so you can trash them?

generally speaking, i am not talking about anyone in particular.

Highlighted says it all, what is "people like you"?

Clone or not, but thing here is: it's so much better than D3 - and completely free. I've already sink in more hours in POE than D3 ever got. And since I liked the game so much, I chipped in and bought some silly cosmetic stuff as a thanks to devs for finally putting out a good dungeon crawler.

I really like how POE gives you the freedom to make you character they way you want, not just give you a class and you have to stick with that.

If people are enjoying the game, does it matter if it's a clone of something else?  Why are clones bad, anyway?  If someone cloned Beyonce, that would be a good thing, right?  Clones can be ok, as long as people enjoy said clones.

Now, back to work.  Gotta find that bra to put on my head...

WoW clones get bad reps because people are tired of WoW clones.

D2 clones get good reps because people want more D2 type games.

Not all that difficult.

Basing opinions on what people label the game as is the sad part in all of it, really.  Or caring about the labels to begin with.

Originally posted by kturock
Theres another game in beta testing now that is a Diablo 2 clone. Same graphics and mouse/key functions. It'd have been a good  or ok game 10 years ago. I'm not even participating in the tests anymore. Pre-sales have already begun. I won't be buying it.

good thing there is like no need to acually BUY a FREE TO PLAY game :)

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Originally posted by baphamet  

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Originally posted by rbialo

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Originally posted by MMOGamer71 OP likes "hearing" himself talk

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    This. Or he is just trolling.  

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  because i keep responding? i am sorry, i thought this was a discussion board?  

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Ok, one last time if you miss it on last three pages:

You make a wrong assumption that "a clone" is always a derogatory term.  But just because most clones of games are of a poor quality (missing features, lacking something innovative, etc.), it does not mean that all clones are bad. 

Now because you refuse to accept that simple truth, but you keep answering to other flameish post, it looks like you would like this topic to turn into a flame war.

Thats why I say you either like gaining attention or just simply trolling.

First off, is Path of Exile a Diablo clone?  Plain and simple .... "Absolutely."  No doubt about it, that's what I love about it. 

Secondarily, why doesn't it carry the stigma of being a "Diablo Clone" like being a "WoW Clone" does?   To me it is in the numbers.  POE pretty much stands alone in the recent ARPG market.  In a years time developers will have jumped on the band wagon and there will be several "Diablo Clones" to choose from.  Soon to follow there will be a shit load of ARPGs and we will be using the term "Diablo Clone" in a not so positive light.  Give it some time ...... the clones are coming.

A clone implies it's the same.. 
 
 
 
A good example would be comparing Runes of Magic and WoW when Runes of Magic launched. You can see Runes of Magic is clearly a clone, to the point that almost every aspect of Runes of Magic in it's entirety was a carbon copy of WoW both in look and function. 
 
So, is Path of Exile a Diablo clone because it has the health and mana orbs? Is it a clone because it has a chat window? Is it a clone because the characters wear the same kind of items? Is it a clone because there's an overlay of the map on the screen? Is it a clone because you get different quality of items? 
 
If you answer yes to any of that then you are also automatically including hundreds of other games that aren't even remotely in the same genre as Diablo. 
 
It's easy to look at Path of Exile and see the similarity between it and D2 in particular but that's where the association ends. As a whole Path of Exile and Diablo 2 may be similar games but to call it a clone would be like saying all MMORPG'S are clones of each other regardless of what features they have in them or how any of it is implemented. 
 
I think what I'm trying to say here is that if you are ignorant about how D2 and Path of Exile play in terms of features and mechanics (and design even) then you can be excused for having the opinion that Path of Exile is a clone. But having an opinion and being correct are two different things. Allow me to prove my point.. 
 
----------------------- 
 
Diablo 2 and Path of Exile both have various classes available. D2 had 7 Unique classes and Path of Exile offers 6 that are only unique in where they start on the passive tree (which D2 lacks completely). 
 
The skills in D2 are obtained via spending points and are locked per class. The skills in Path of Exile can be used by anyone providing you have the statistics to use the gem. (FF7 Materia style system including the complexity from combining gems via slots vs traditional RPG skills that never really change as you progress) 
 
D2 has a currency system in place in which runaway inflation is present (Looks like they never learned their lesson and done the same on D3. I believe that was on purpose to push more people into spending RL money but that's for a different debate) so players use standardized but rarer items as replacement currency. Path of Exile has no 'currency' and instead each item in the game ultimately serves a purpose and that the real value of anything in the game is only dependent on how much it is desired. 
 
D2 end game content is farming bosses for rare Unique items (which in themselves are not rare but due to the way stats were rolled getting an item that was valuable was quite tricky) and very, very rarely getting exceptionally rare items from vendors or gambling (So rare in fact that even with a bot running 24/7 you are unlikely to find anything of significant value for multiple days). End game content in Path of Exile involves running randomly generated levels that have inherent modifiers on them to make content dynamically harder and more rewarding for effort spent. (and being smart about what you choose to run with your character). Useful item drops in Path of Exile are comparatively plentiful but finding exceptional items is still very difficult (GL finding or rolling a 6L item and then rolling stats on it to something better than you already have). 
 
Implementation of several major mechanics are radically different in Path of Exile and D2 and I believe the systems are implemented much better by Path of Exile (How armor works along with life leech and regeneration spring to mind as good examples of how different the mechanics can be). Path of Exile also makes it incredibly (impossible) difficult to play with total disregard of your characters safety due to clever ways in which mobs interact with each other as well as certain mechanics and debuffs which can be applied to your character (I'm looking at you Viper Strike/Puncture, Chaos Damage, Lightning crits etc). 
 
 
 
So in 3 or 4 short paragraphs I've basically demonstrated how the core gameplay is nothing alike aside from it being point and click and isometric. Sure on the surface to someone who doesn't know any better they might look exactly the same but that's only because they don't know the full story. Saying this game is a D2 clone only shows your own ignorance on both these games in the same way that saying GW2 is a WoW clone because it has levels, dungeons and quests. 
 
 
 
D2 was a seriously good game, we know that. But it's also obvious that it could be improved on and that's what GGG tried to do with Path of Exile. They understood that D2 was an extremely important game and they liked the direction it went so they chose to use it as a starting place, as a foundation, to build from. Blizzard on the other hand tried to make it more 'mainstream' (Of course they wanted people to enjoy the game but their aim at the end of the day was to make people pay, everything in the game reeks of poor design and pushes people towards the AH as much as possible while intentionally devaluing gold over time as a means to force people with comparatively little time to cough up cash to remain competitive) 

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by baphamet

not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?

not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.

from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)

its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.

whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?

i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.

 Because Diablo 1 and 2 were good games, and WoW was a piece of crap.

If it was a D3 clone people would be hating on it, but thankfully it isnt.

Also Diablo was not the first ARPG. The original Gauntlet probably takes that honour. Noone calls Diablo a Gauntlet clone.

Probably the most constructive (and correct) response yet ^

THE reason why Path of Exile isn't bashed for being a diablo clone is because it's more similar to a game everyone loved than diablo 3 was. It's basically the game many peopel felt diablo 3 should have been. Furthermore, there's enough different about PoE so that it feels like a new game, but plays a lot like diablo 2 (which most people like).

Originally posted by Kalafax

If you think its a diablo clone then you havent looked at the skill tree, how they use currency, the fact that is has varius leagues, the skill gem and socketing system, or really anything beyond its surface appearance. Players have been waiting for a sequel to Diablo 2 for a long long time because the game style is awesome, Diablo 3 turned out to be nothing like Diablo 2, but luckly Path of Exile is like Diablo 2 enough to carry the torch.

Oh and did I mention is free to play and they arnt money grabbin?

Give me a break. Just because there are a few unique features thrown in for good measure doesn't really take away that it's a complete ripoff which is fine if you don't care about that. It really doesn't make it a completely different game

Originally posted by Zezda

A clone implies it's the same.. 
 
 
 
A good example would be comparing Runes of Magic and WoW when Runes of Magic launched. You can see Runes of Magic is clearly a clone, to the point that almost every aspect of Runes of Magic in it's entirety was a carbon copy of WoW both in look and function. 
 
So, is Path of Exile a Diablo clone because it has the health and mana orbs? Is it a clone because it has a chat window? Is it a clone because the characters wear the same kind of items? Is it a clone because there's an overlay of the map on the screen? Is it a clone because you get different quality of items? 
 
If you answer yes to any of that then you are also automatically including hundreds of other games that aren't even remotely in the same genre as Diablo. 
 
It's easy to look at Path of Exile and see the similarity between it and D2 in particular but that's where the association ends. As a whole Path of Exile and Diablo 2 may be similar games but to call it a clone would be like saying all MMORPG'S are clones of each other regardless of what features they have in them or how any of it is implemented. 
 
I think what I'm trying to say here is that if you are ignorant about how D2 and Path of Exile play in terms of features and mechanics (and design even) then you can be excused for having the opinion that Path of Exile is a clone. But having an opinion and being correct are two different things. Allow me to prove my point.. 
 
----------------------- 
 
Diablo 2 and Path of Exile both have various classes available. D2 had 7 Unique classes and Path of Exile offers 6 that are only unique in where they start on the passive tree (which D2 lacks completely). 
 
The skills in D2 are obtained via spending points and are locked per class. The skills in Path of Exile can be used by anyone providing you have the statistics to use the gem. (FF7 Materia style system including the complexity from combining gems via slots vs traditional RPG skills that never really change as you progress) 
 
D2 has a currency system in place in which runaway inflation is present (Looks like they never learned their lesson and done the same on D3. I believe that was on purpose to push more people into spending RL money but that's for a different debate) so players use standardized but rarer items as replacement currency. Path of Exile has no 'currency' and instead each item in the game ultimately serves a purpose and that the real value of anything in the game is only dependent on how much it is desired. 
 
D2 end game content is farming bosses for rare Unique items (which in themselves are not rare but due to the way stats were rolled getting an item that was valuable was quite tricky) and very, very rarely getting exceptionally rare items from vendors or gambling (So rare in fact that even with a bot running 24/7 you are unlikely to find anything of significant value for multiple days). End game content in Path of Exile involves running randomly generated levels that have inherent modifiers on them to make content dynamically harder and more rewarding for effort spent. (and being smart about what you choose to run with your character). Useful item drops in Path of Exile are comparatively plentiful but finding exceptional items is still very difficult (GL finding or rolling a 6L item and then rolling stats on it to something better than you already have). 
 
Implementation of several major mechanics are radically different in Path of Exile and D2 and I believe the systems are implemented much better by Path of Exile (How armor works along with life leech and regeneration spring to mind as good examples of how different the mechanics can be). Path of Exile also makes it incredibly (impossible) difficult to play with total disregard of your characters safety due to clever ways in which mobs interact with each other as well as certain mechanics and debuffs which can be applied to your character (I'm looking at you Viper Strike/Puncture, Chaos Damage, Lightning crits etc). 
 
 
 
So in 3 or 4 short paragraphs I've basically demonstrated how the core gameplay is nothing alike aside from it being point and click and isometric. Sure on the surface to someone who doesn't know any better they might look exactly the same but that's only because they don't know the full story. Saying this game is a D2 clone only shows your own ignorance on both these games in the same way that saying GW2 is a WoW clone because it has levels, dungeons and quests. 
 
 
 
D2 was a seriously good game, we know that. But it's also obvious that it could be improved on and that's what GGG tried to do with Path of Exile. They understood that D2 was an extremely important game and they liked the direction it went so they chose to use it as a starting place, as a foundation, to build from. Blizzard on the other hand tried to make it more 'mainstream' (Of course they wanted people to enjoy the game but their aim at the end of the day was to make people pay, everything in the game reeks of poor design and pushes people towards the AH as much as possible while intentionally devaluing gold over time as a means to force people with comparatively little time to cough up cash to remain competitive) 

Holy hell man, that was beautiful. If that doesn't count enough as "reasoning" for people that think this game is a "Direct D2 ripoff", then nothing will.

Originally posted by Starpower

Originally posted by Kalafax

If you think its a diablo clone then you havent looked at the skill tree, how they use currency, the fact that is has varius leagues, the skill gem and socketing system, or really anything beyond its surface appearance. Players have been waiting for a sequel to Diablo 2 for a long long time because the game style is awesome, Diablo 3 turned out to be nothing like Diablo 2, but luckly Path of Exile is like Diablo 2 enough to carry the torch.

Oh and did I mention is free to play and they arnt money grabbin?

Give me a break. Just because there are a few unique features thrown in for good measure doesn't really take away that it's a complete ripoff which is fine if you don't care about that. It really doesn't make it a completely different game

I still can't get over you guys lol. I'm almost convinced you're all trolling together or something, at this point. But in the event you're being serious, please read the post from Zezda that I quoted above, and try saying that again with a straight face. Better yet, why don't you try arguing his points? I'd enjoy seeing that.

Originally posted by baphamet

not saying this is a bad game but why is it that if a game is labeled a "wow clone" its automatically hated on but this game being a diablo clone gets praise?

not only is this game a diablo clone, some of it is a direct rip off.

from character selection to the inventory panel to the UI (and this is just from playing the game for 10 minutes, there is probably much more)

its actually pretty funny how blatantly they ripped off diablo.

whatever happened to these indie companies being more creative? isn't that why so many of you support them? or is it just because you hate the big companies like blizzard that make tons of money?

i am not trying to post flame bait, but the double standard just seems odd to me.

 

 

It's because all Diablo2 players wanted from blizzard was updated graphics, new bosses, and maybe some different character classes. PoE does all this without changing the art direction, rehashing plotlines, bosses and characters, or fundamentally changing the class system. PoE's handling of the skill tree+skillgem system is much better than the MOBA-style classes of D3.