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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » What right has this game to associate itself either with NWN or D&D in truth?

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94 posts found
  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6384

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

2/05/13 5:35:39 PM#61
It has no right. Just like STO, WAR, AoC, LotrO has little to do with their respective IPs, so does this one. It is just so that the devs can cash in on the IP.

  SoulStain

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/12
Posts: 204

2/05/13 5:36:38 PM#62
It has the right...because Cryptic paid for the right.
  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2153

2/05/13 5:51:57 PM#63
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 Um it has just as much right to the neverwinter name as NWN did. Its Set in neverwinter in Forgotten realms D&D setting using the D&D 4th edition ruleset.

   Seriously I can't see how (A) you couldn't answer the question yourself with the info you have and (B) how in all honesty therws not at least a bit of malice in your question (as you claim) as anyone with even alittle bit of information on the game could asnwer your question  of what it has to do with D&D and NWN.

  Is it NWN 3? No, black isle is dead we will never see a NWN 3 and in truth Obsidian already did a really good money grab with the godawfull NWN 2. (Game was rushed with numerous bugs, the ending was nothing but a poorly acted scetch drawing were your characters buried under tons of earth in a attempt to force players to buy their equally poorly done squal, and character companions ran out of anything new to say by act 2)

   Now you can hate the D&D 4th edition rule set (many do) you can Hate Neverwinter because it shares a NW with NWN, but maybe you should just let go of trying to make neverwinter fit into your idea of what NWN 3 should be, or ignore the hype that that game mags like PC gamer get paid to do.

   Neverwinter might not be everything I want it to be but I'd rather try it and play it (hell its free even) then just post on forums toxically about everything thats not just the way i want it to be

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6384

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

2/05/13 5:54:51 PM#64
Originally posted by SoulStain
It has the right...because Cryptic paid for the right.

I am pretty sure the OP is talking about the right as seen from the fans point of view and not the lawyers and suits.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2153

2/05/13 5:58:34 PM#65
Originally posted by VirgoThree

http://www.amazon.com/Neverwinter-Campaign-Setting-Dungeons-Supplement/dp/0786958146

If you want the direct connection, here you go. This is the setting, and version of that setting Cryptic's Neverwinter utilizes.

Also, the game shares mechanics but is an action RPG adaptation of 4th edition. From what I've seen, it has the base classes, races, and general mechanics of the powers. It is however not turn based, grid based combat.

 So do you think the OP was asking a loaded question with malice intended (dispite his claims)  or do you think he was really to lazy to google the information easily available to answer his questions and needed us to do it for him?

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  2/05/13 5:59:18 PM#66
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 Um it has just as much right to the neverwinter name as NWN did. Its Set in neverwinter in Forgotten realms D&D setting using the D&D 4th edition ruleset.

 

Can you explain to me how deeply NW uses the 4E ruleset? Is it just a case of sharing a few spell names or whatever, or does it go further then that?

I only ask because I honestly do not know, but I do know that NWN was built on a solid foundation of the PnP rules.

 

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2153

2/05/13 6:03:20 PM#67
Originally posted by Yamota
It has no right. Just like STO, WAR, AoC, LotrO has little to do with their respective IPs, so does this one. It is just so that the devs can cash in on the IP.

 self entitlement is not really a right.

Saying "I'm a FAN damnit how dare any game use any name close to NWN even if the game is set in neverwinter setting" is some serious entitlement issues.

  HorrorScope

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 609

2/05/13 6:04:27 PM#68
Thee right that Wizards of the Coast grants thee.
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  2/05/13 6:04:46 PM#69
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by VirgoThree

http://www.amazon.com/Neverwinter-Campaign-Setting-Dungeons-Supplement/dp/0786958146

If you want the direct connection, here you go. This is the setting, and version of that setting Cryptic's Neverwinter utilizes.

Also, the game shares mechanics but is an action RPG adaptation of 4th edition. From what I've seen, it has the base classes, races, and general mechanics of the powers. It is however not turn based, grid based combat.

 So do you think the OP was asking a loaded question with malice intended (dispite his claims)  or do you think he was really to lazy to google the information easily available to answer his questions and needed us to do it for him?

 

What a shame you went in this direction with your posting in this thread... but no matter.

I have explained already that my questions are lore aside. I am talking about mechanics and the relationship to the more famous and much loved NWN game.

One of my questions was, clearly, how deep is that 'adaptation' of 4E in this game? What I mark in red is... what *exactly* have you seen? Can you provide some links to it? Or are we operating from dev spin, assumption, and hope here?

The other was is it fair for them to intentionally trade on Black Isle's good name with a game that is only related to their quality work by setting?

 

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

2/05/13 6:06:04 PM#70
To avoid confusion they should've probably name the game Forgotten Realms: Sword Coast North... but if they do that it probably won't sell the game as good, lol
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  2/05/13 6:07:15 PM#71
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by SoulStain
It has the right...because Cryptic paid for the right.

I am pretty sure the OP is talking about the right as seen from the fans point of view and not the lawyers and suits.

 

Yes, exactly.

I expected these kind of literal responses though I must admit from folks who didn't understand the post I made so I have just been ignoring them.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  2/05/13 6:12:15 PM#72
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
To avoid confusion they should've probably name the game Forgotten Realms: Sword Coast North... but if they do that it probably won't sell the game as good, lol

 

Yes, indeed.

People seem emotionally attached to this game already (look at some of the responses here in this thread), which i can only put down to them connecting this with the older title or the D&D brand because the game itself looks pretty generic (to me).

We are seeing the same thing happening with TESO, but I guess that is why they use these licenses in the first place. They bring a certain amount of unquestioning fanatical support with them just by association.

I guess it also allows them to charge what they are charging for founder's pack etc.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2153

2/05/13 6:13:14 PM#73
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 Um it has just as much right to the neverwinter name as NWN did. Its Set in neverwinter in Forgotten realms D&D setting using the D&D 4th edition ruleset.

 

Can you explain to me how deeply NW uses the 4E ruleset? Is it just a case of sharing a few spell names or whatever, or does it go further then that?

I only ask because I honestly do not know, but I do know that NWN was built on a solid foundation of the PnP rules.

 

 Might i suggest you try goggling and reading for yourself? After all why believe me or any other random poster here that you don't actually know in RL? Seriously its not that hard and I'm sure you have some kinda internet browser that will let you.

  Personally I am not a fan of the D&D 4th edition ruleset so have only seen them briefly and could not tell how close the game follows the rules even if i did have the game to play (Which obviously only a beta tester undr NDA would have at this point anyway)

  And your wrong NWN played pretty dam loosely with the D7D rule set. Lets take Familiars for example. I know of no edition of D&D rules in which which a first lvl mage could summon a fairy familir rogue that could easily unlock doors and disarm traps. Thats just off the top of my head that i can remember and I haven't played NWN in something like 10 years

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  2/05/13 6:14:57 PM#74
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 Um it has just as much right to the neverwinter name as NWN did. Its Set in neverwinter in Forgotten realms D&D setting using the D&D 4th edition ruleset.

 

Can you explain to me how deeply NW uses the 4E ruleset? Is it just a case of sharing a few spell names or whatever, or does it go further then that?

I only ask because I honestly do not know, but I do know that NWN was built on a solid foundation of the PnP rules.

 Might i suggest you try goggling and reading for yourself?

 

Sorry, thought this was a discussion forum for asking questions and chatting about stuff... didn't realise I wasn't allowed to offer up questions for discussion...

Do I take it by this response that you really, in truth, just don't know?

 

BTW, I did not say NWN used a literal copy of the PnP rules, I said it built on a solid foundation of those rules, and it did.

  emperorwings

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/06
Posts: 1247

2/05/13 6:17:32 PM#75
Saw PWE and then thought well I haven't played NWN2 so played it and will skip this one because it only has a town named Neverwinter and probly 4th gen rules. Most likely won't be playing it. Will give the free option a try of course.

This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2153

2/05/13 6:18:25 PM#76
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
To avoid confusion they should've probably name the game Forgotten Realms: Sword Coast North... but if they do that it probably won't sell the game as good, lol

 

Yes, indeed.

People seem emotionally attached to this game already (look at some of the responses here in this thread), which i can only put down to them connecting this with the older title or the D&D brand because the game itself looks pretty generic (to me).

We are seeing the same thing happening with TESO, but I guess that is why they use these licenses in the first place. They bring a certain amount of unquestioning fanatical support with them just by association.

I guess it also allows them to charge what they are charging for founder's pack etc.

  Ah so in truth your not really out to get information but instead are only out to stir up emotional responses against something you see as wrong. (ie the use of the Neverwinter name in a game you don't see as a spiritual successor to NWN.)

  Well played if thinnly veiled, and alot of of posters took the bait, yes you played them (us?) well

  SoulStain

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/12
Posts: 204

2/05/13 6:21:51 PM#77
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by SoulStain
It has the right...because Cryptic paid for the right.

I am pretty sure the OP is talking about the right as seen from the fans point of view and not the lawyers and suits.

 

Yes, exactly.

I expected these kind of literal responses though I must admit from folks who didn't understand the post I made so I have just been ignoring them.

Understood completely but the answer still comes out the same. What right do the fans have to control where an ip goes or where it doesnt?.

    ..and why don't we focus our discontent toward the IP owner. If Games Workshop had bothered to do any forum perusing they would see that many do not see Cryptic in a good light. MAybe GW did look about and found what Cryptic does to be acceptable or..even...good/great. (I myself was pissed at their last 2 attempts at MMOS but since both's launch I think CO and STO have developed nicely despite STO being such a violent game.) 

 Anyway, I'd imagine more times than not if IP's were given out according to the majority of its fans we'd see even worse games based on beloved IPs.

I guess I'm just willing to give the benefit of a doubt  until I play the game.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7029

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  2/05/13 6:22:29 PM#78
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
To avoid confusion they should've probably name the game Forgotten Realms: Sword Coast North... but if they do that it probably won't sell the game as good, lol

 

Yes, indeed.

People seem emotionally attached to this game already (look at some of the responses here in this thread), which i can only put down to them connecting this with the older title or the D&D brand because the game itself looks pretty generic (to me).

We are seeing the same thing happening with TESO, but I guess that is why they use these licenses in the first place. They bring a certain amount of unquestioning fanatical support with them just by association.

I guess it also allows them to charge what they are charging for founder's pack etc.

  Ah so in truth your not really out to get information but instead are only out to stir up emotional responses against something you see as wrong. (ie the use of the Neverwinter name in a game you don't see as a spiritual successor to NWN.)

  Well played if thinnly veiled, and alot of of posters took the bait, yes you played them (us?) well

 

Wow... that's quite some leap...

No, I am interested in a conversation about the game, it's use of the  ruleset that it is branding itself after, and the ethics of trading on someone else's glory.

You use the term that actually triggrered this thread in part.. I have seen this named a 'spiritual successor' to NWN elsewhere and that is *exactly* part of what I am asking. Is it?

(Shall we move this back from personal observations and guesses as to motives and stick to the topic in hand? If you don't like the thread please don't feel pressured to participate)

  MortisRex

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/04
Posts: 366

2/05/13 6:25:50 PM#79
What right did Black Isle have to use the same name as an even earlier game created un the early 90's (an MMO too) by Stormfront Studios?  Black Isle did not create NWN, they didn't even create the first NWN video game. Publishers buy licenses, that's the way things work. That contract gives them every legal right to associate itself with both NWN and D&D unless you're suggesting you have a more vested interest in protecting WoTC's/Hasbro's intellectual property than they do.
  winter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2153

2/05/13 6:27:44 PM#80
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by winter
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

 Um it has just as much right to the neverwinter name as NWN did. Its Set in neverwinter in Forgotten realms D&D setting using the D&D 4th edition ruleset.

 

Can you explain to me how deeply NW uses the 4E ruleset? Is it just a case of sharing a few spell names or whatever, or does it go further then that?

I only ask because I honestly do not know, but I do know that NWN was built on a solid foundation of the PnP rules.

 Might i suggest you try goggling and reading for yourself?

 

Sorry, thought this was a discussion forum for asking questions and chatting about stuff... didn't realise I wasn't allowed to offer up questions for discussion...

Do I take it by this response that you really, in truth, just don't know?

 

BTW, I did not say NWN used a literal copy of the PnP rules, I said it built on a solid foundation of those rules, and it did.

 Meh some people don't mind being baited as much as others. i for one have never care for those that pretend to play dumb to try and make a point. Guess I fail at internet forum warz 101.

 I know whats been posted which you do as well. You also know that untill game goes into open beta pretty much no one can answer your questions (developers of the game and closed beta testers under NDA being the exception) If finding actual factual information was your goal i pointed out the best way to get it. Discussion on the other hand is cheap and rarely factual.

  

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