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Neverwinter

Neverwinter 

General Discussion  » What right has this game to associate itself either with NWN or D&D in truth?

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94 posts found
  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7431

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/30/13 1:46:36 PM#1

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 888

1/30/13 1:52:06 PM#2

It doesn't, Neverwinter is just the name of a city in Fearun. This isn't NWN 3 people just see "Neverwinter" and jump to that conclusion. 

It's DND but based on 4e and has the approval of WOTC so..

 

Also it's "Neverwinter" Online because it's linked to RA Salvatore "Neverwinter saga" though im sure marketing fully expected fans to get hyped and link this game to previous NWN games.

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  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7431

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/30/13 1:55:57 PM#3
Originally posted by Asm0deus

It doesn't, Neverwinter is just the name of a city in Fearun. This isn't NWN 3 people just see "Neverwinter" and jump to that conclusion. 

It's DND but based on 4e and has the approval of WOTC so..

 

Also it's "Neverwinter" Online because it's linked to RA Salvatore "Neverwinter saga" though im sure marketing fully expected fans to get hyped and link this game to previous NWN games.

 

Interesting... how closely does it follow 4E? I never played that version of D&D, but interested nonetheless.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1469

1/30/13 2:01:16 PM#4

It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

 

What else exactly does it need?  A  full set of multi sided die and a fat guy with cystic acne narrating the dungeon while you play?

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7431

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/30/13 6:52:28 PM#5
Originally posted by Draemos

It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

What else exactly does it need?  

 

Well, I haver actually played and enjoyed different D&D games that use the D&D ruleset (whatever it was at the time) to greater or lesser effect... Have you not?

Does this game actually have *any* D&D under it's thin skin of names and lore?

  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

1/30/13 7:08:36 PM#6

I really dont know OP.......

I do, however, suggest everyone go and spend $200 on the founders pack just to make sure.  It will be a sound investment, you have my word.

EDIT:  As for TESO.....     For some reason it just doesnt feel as sleazy and grimy.  I cant articulate why I feel that way though.  I atleast have high hopes for TESO, but it stops there. 

I will laugh when everyone says NWN 1 multiplayer was a better experience than the actual MMO.  Hopefully I am wrong

 

  bleyzwun

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/05
Posts: 1104

1/30/13 7:14:07 PM#7
Originally posted by Draemos

It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

 

What else exactly does it need?  A  full set of multi sided die and a fat guy with cystic acne narrating the dungeon while you play?

It couldn't hurt!

  SpectralHunter

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/05
Posts: 386

1/30/13 8:43:33 PM#8

My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

  Golelorn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1095

1/30/13 9:13:52 PM#9

Neverwinter is not only the name of the city that was set in BioWare's Neverwinter Nights, but is also the name of a major city that lies south of the Great Spine of the World. 

I believe most of the Forgotten Realms settings will focus on Neverwinter(there has been a plethora of books and developments based in Neverwinter), plus this seems to be one of the most popular cities thanks to Salvatore and BioWare.

[quote] This Game is based off of the D&D Fourth Edition Ruleset. A basic primer to how the Fourth Edition Tabletop system works can be found on this link. [/quote]

Keep in mind this is an MMO, so some things are not going to be 100% true to the ruleset. Just like they are not in DDO.

 

  neosapience

Novice Member

Joined: 7/17/04
Posts: 166

1/30/13 9:18:31 PM#10
What does a twitch-based action game have in common with a PnP RPG? Not much, in my opinion. I don't care what universe a video game is set in, or what 'rule set' it uses. If you can't play a rogue paladin who's on a quest to dethrone the corrupt leader of his order, you're not playing an RPG.

Like most games, Neverwinter will try to keep you occupied with big red circles and flashing numbers. Your ability to influence the world will be nonexistent. You will grind encounters and click on NPCs, you will mash buttons and you will gain levels. Eventually you'll realize that it's just a typical MMORPG, because game developers are trying to make money, not take huge risks.
  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1939

1/30/13 9:38:15 PM#11
Personally, I would have much preferred  the setting be in Waterdeep, Cormanthor or Baldur's Gate or even better, Silverymoon.  I also would have preferred a more traditional sandpark style MMO rather than this arcade monstrosity it has become.

  Asm0deus

Elite Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 888

1/31/13 12:36:34 AM#12
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Personally, I would have much preferred  the setting be in Waterdeep, Cormanthor or Baldur's Gate or even better, Silverymoon.  I also would have preferred a more traditional sandpark style MMO rather than this arcade monstrosity it has become.

Would have really enjoyed Silverymoon and hope we can see this place in game at some point.

 

 

Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Asm0deus

It doesn't, Neverwinter is just the name of a city in Fearun. This isn't NWN 3 people just see "Neverwinter" and jump to that conclusion. 

It's DND but based on 4e and has the approval of WOTC so..

 

Also it's "Neverwinter" Online because it's linked to RA Salvatore "Neverwinter saga" though im sure marketing fully expected fans to get hyped and link this game to previous NWN games.

 

Interesting... how closely does it follow 4E? I never played that version of D&D, but interested nonetheless.

It's "loosely based" on 4E so don't expect it to be an exact translation.

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  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7333

1/31/13 12:39:07 AM#13

Geez OP great question.

 

 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  VirgoThree

Tipster

Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 1222

FFXIV:ARR, Malboro Server, Scarlet Raven

1/31/13 12:47:15 AM#14

http://www.amazon.com/Neverwinter-Campaign-Setting-Dungeons-Supplement/dp/0786958146

If you want the direct connection, here you go. This is the setting, and version of that setting Cryptic's Neverwinter utilizes.

Also, the game shares mechanics but is an action RPG adaptation of 4th edition. From what I've seen, it has the base classes, races, and general mechanics of the powers. It is however not turn based, grid based combat.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1469

1/31/13 2:51:03 AM#15
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Draemos

It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

What else exactly does it need?  

 

Well, I haver actually played and enjoyed different D&D games that use the D&D ruleset (whatever it was at the time) to greater or lesser effect... Have you not?

Does this game actually have *any* D&D under it's thin skin of names and lore?

 I've never played a videogame that used a strict D&D ruleset that's combat engine wasn't boring and relied heavily upon it's RPG elements to keep people interested.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1469

1/31/13 2:53:03 AM#16
Originally posted by neosapience

Like most games, Neverwinter will try to keep you occupied with big red circles and flashing numbers. Your ability to influence the world will be nonexistent. You will grind encounters and click on NPCs, you will mash buttons and you will gain levels. Eventually you'll realize that it's just a typical MMORPG, because game developers are trying to make money, not take huge risks.

This is what we call "gameplay" in the videogame world.  It's the thing that makes board games and videogames different.  We also use monitors, mice, and keyboards instead of dice, boards, and cards.  It's a stretch, but its worked out pretty well so far.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2804

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/31/13 3:02:04 AM#17
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

Becasue Wizards of the Coast gave them rights.

 

 

It's as simple as that and its quite a silly question to ask.  You think Cyrptic stole the rights or something?

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2804

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/31/13 3:09:03 AM#18
Originally posted by Vesavius

Honest question with no malice.

What has this title got to do with either the much loved Black Isle game that a lot of folks are obviously emotionally connecting it with (saw PC Gamer call it the successor to NWN today for example) or D&D (beyond a skin of FR lore)?

Is it simply doing what TESO is doing and cynically trading off the credibility of  a popular IP while actually having zero to do with it once you get past the brand and the skin of lore?

If so, is this actually an honest way to do business? It could be seen as a pretty cynical way of manipulating folks?

 

As a side quesion, and I ask the same of TESO fans, would you be as excited for this game if it didn't connect it's brand to one you already love? Would the game itself hold up to what you are looking for? Would you care about it anymore then a random PWE game? Try to answer honestly if you can...

Honest question with no malice.

 

Why are you looking forward to playing ArcheAge so much?  To me it looks like a horrible game with Eastern Art, bland old and out dated tab targetting combat.  Why is sandbox features the only systems that are allowed to propagate the MMO genre?  To me it features boring and grindy gameplay elements that shouldn't even be called gameplay.  I mean if I want to mine, farm or build something I do it in real life where it has meaning but to do it in a game seems asanine to me.

 

To me AA is not an honest way to do business because it promotes nothing fun and everything boring, I see it as a pretty cynical way to do business.

 

As a side question would you be excited for ArcheAge if it was setup as a linear WoW clone with none of the sandbox elements?  WOuld the game itself holdup to what you are looking for?  Would you care about it anymore then a random P2W asian title?  Try to answer honestly if you can.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You see my questions probobly sound silly to you jsut as much as your questions sound silly to me.  The truth of the matter is people like different things and questioning peoples wishes and desires are an idiotic thing to do IMO.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2804

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/31/13 3:11:56 AM#19
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Draemos

It's using the same lore, settings, classes... It's even using many of the same spells and classes.  It's also a heavy dungeon crawler.

What else exactly does it need?  

 

Well, I haver actually played and enjoyed different D&D games that use the D&D ruleset (whatever it was at the time) to greater or lesser effect... Have you not?

Does this game actually have *any* D&D under it's thin skin of names and lore?

Thats pretty much all it needs.

 

WoW is nothing like Warcraft 3 but yet it is everymuch a warcraft game because its based on the lore and settings of the RTS game.  One not need be a clone to be a successor to it!

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7431

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

 
OP  1/31/13 6:15:45 AM#20
Originally posted by SpectralHunter

My snarky remark is they have the right because they have the license. 

But like some have said, Neverwinter is just a city in FR. It doesn't have to be related to Bioware or the NWN series.

 

Obvious snarky remarks aside...

Yes, this game has a FR setting, but it wears a D&D badge, with D&D being the mechanics behind the FR lore.

To draw a connection with D&D, one would have to assume it actually has something to do with that system?

 

Also, on the Black Isle NWN... you don't think it's disengenious that Cryptic are allowing it (promoting it?) to be the direct successor to that much loved game? It obviously has nothing to do with NWN past some lore and labels.

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