Originally posted by BadOrb

User rating down to 6.6

Carefully consider why that seems important, to you.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by BadOrb

User rating down to 6.6

Carefully consider why that seems important, to you.

For all the people saying that ratings don't matter, how do you judge games?  Buy them and play them?  That is a complete and total waste of money.  I check out the user ratings and reviewer ratings on a host of different sites.  I typically put more stock in the user ratings than the reviewer ratings as the reviewers are typically making money by having the big time games running ads on their sites. 

This game started off like what WoW became (and has moved away from)- a "MMO" (in quotations because it isn't) in which players sit around a graphic chatroom (the main city) and talk until they do a thing that requires multiple people (Warzone, group content, raid content) which they didn't have to leave the city to do.  This is not an MMO.  This is a modified version of Diablo.

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by BadOrb

User rating down to 6.6

Carefully consider why that seems important, to you.

 

For all the people saying that ratings don't matter, how do you judge games?  Buy them and play them?  That is a complete and total waste of money.  I check out the user ratings and reviewer ratings on a host of different sites.  I typically put more stock in the user ratings than the reviewer ratings as the reviewers are typically making money by having the big time games running ads on their sites. 

This game started off like what WoW became (and has moved away from)- a "MMO" (in quotations because it isn't) in which players sit around a graphic chatroom (the main city) and talk until they do a thing that requires multiple people (Warzone, group content, raid content) which they didn't have to leave the city to do.  This is not an MMO.  This is a modified version of Diablo.

Well, rating  matter but from professionals not from users

Originally posted by zomard100

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by BadOrb

User rating down to 6.6

Carefully consider why that seems important, to you.

 

For all the people saying that ratings don't matter, how do you judge games?  Buy them and play them?  That is a complete and total waste of money.  I check out the user ratings and reviewer ratings on a host of different sites.  I typically put more stock in the user ratings than the reviewer ratings as the reviewers are typically making money by having the big time games running ads on their sites. 

This game started off like what WoW became (and has moved away from)- a "MMO" (in quotations because it isn't) in which players sit around a graphic chatroom (the main city) and talk until they do a thing that requires multiple people (Warzone, group content, raid content) which they didn't have to leave the city to do.  This is not an MMO.  This is a modified version of Diablo.

Well, rating  matter but from professionals not from users

Hahaha, If anything ratings matter less from "professionals" and more from users.

Originally posted by marsh9799

For all the people saying that ratings don't matter, how do you judge games?

Research them and form our own opinions; rather than rely upon the affirmation of the peer group in handy (if somewhat prone to manipulation) Score Shorthand.

Its probably more of a 7. But I don't understand why you care what rating it has? If you enjoy it then just enjoy it and forget about the haters.

The game disappointed a lot of people, the ratings reflect that. Thats all.

Originally posted by zomard100
If swtor is 6.6 i would give to TSW 6.7, to gw2 5.9, to rift 6.7, tera 3.1 exct...

If SWTOR is a 6.6 I would give TSW a 135, GW2 a 250, rift a 1 and TERA a 10 etc.

Everyone has different preferences.

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by BadOrb

User rating down to 6.6

Carefully consider why that seems important, to you.

 

For all the people saying that ratings don't matter, how do you judge games?  Buy them and play them?  That is a complete and total waste of money.  

I check it out during development, play beta, and then make up my own mind.  If the game has already been released then I check it out on Youtube or play the free download. I don't base my decisions by people on the internet. That makes no sense to me. 

Originally posted by Aeonblades

Originally posted by zomard100

Originally posted by marsh9799

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by BadOrb

User rating down to 6.6

Carefully consider why that seems important, to you.

 

For all the people saying that ratings don't matter, how do you judge games?  Buy them and play them?  That is a complete and total waste of money.  I check out the user ratings and reviewer ratings on a host of different sites.  I typically put more stock in the user ratings than the reviewer ratings as the reviewers are typically making money by having the big time games running ads on their sites. 

This game started off like what WoW became (and has moved away from)- a "MMO" (in quotations because it isn't) in which players sit around a graphic chatroom (the main city) and talk until they do a thing that requires multiple people (Warzone, group content, raid content) which they didn't have to leave the city to do.  This is not an MMO.  This is a modified version of Diablo.

Well, rating  matter but from professionals not from users

Hahaha, If anything ratings matter less from "professionals" and more from users.

of course,,professionals are the most important customer group,,they buy MILLIONS of games

and they play tham all every day too,,of course without pay

"professionals" rated this game at 8 at launch,,now it has dropped a lot

some professionals even gave the mindjack game a 9

I would like it if the hype and rating a user give a game shows up in the user profile for all to see. You could still vote pure 1 or 10 on games but it would be out there for all to see.

Or if the rating tab showed how many user totally voted and statistics in each category "1465 users voted 1 on gameplay" "342 users voted 2 on gameplay" and so on.

And 1-10 are different from user to user. 5 might be average to one and under average for another. 10 in my eyes is a epic groundbreaking game (that I yet have seen) and 1 is a game that wont even start and my computer crash and catch fire. But to another 10 could be having a really good time for 3 months and the 1 = the game CTD three times a month.

EDIT: Oh and after my honest review my average score is 5.1.

Originally posted by ignore_me

What if I expected it to be better? I knew it was going to be a themepark. I knew it had few classes with WoW-like trees for builds. I knew all of that but what I didn't know was how anemic the systems would be, and how stripped down the whole game would be (static lifeless worlds, quick progression to an empty endgame, meaningless open world PvP). None of this has changed either.

I don't think the comparison to Kotor is a good one either. SWTOR does not have any kind of meaningful dark side/ lightside progression resulting in changes to abilities. The D20 system is used in Kotor for skills, giving it a more RPG feel. Every breath you take in SWTOR is on rails, and short ones at that.

I never get the whole "meaningless open world PvP" thing I see over and over again about themepark games where the obvious emphasis is on PvE. It is like me going to Planetside and saying, "omg this game sucks because it has no PvE" ! In WoW, people made the same complaint until Blizzard began adding in some PvP objectives out in the world that affected gameplay and some world PvP zones. And... only a minority of players actually participate in any of it.

Your comment about aenemic systems, I don't really find them worse or better than what similar games have to offer except that each class seems to have more crowd control abilities than in most MMORPGs. Since you kill groups of mobs, and strongs and elites are harder with level in comparison to a game like WoW, fights are slower and require more tactical play. That is not necessarily a bad thing, unless you are keen on action, then I can see why you would hate it.

I do give you that they can certainly improve on what they have. I hope they do. If they don't, I will be disappointed, but people have been flaming this game since release. I don't know of an MMORPG that is new that doesn't have problems. I am worried though that because of the fact that their development cycles are by necessity going to be slow (see my comment about VOs), EA are not going to be able to shape this game up. So far I think they have been slow.

Originally posted by FromHell

So I expected speeders which are in some form similiar to what speeders are like in the movies? Yeah, harsh.

Do you know of a smooth-running MMORPG where you have speeders with physics ? I certainly don't. The closest game that had speed + vehicle physics and was, well in a somewhat playable state, was Auto Assault. Don't tell me SWG because speeders were slow and the game ran like crap.

I expected space combat not to be 1992 Starfox? To be at least of equal quality than 10 year old "Jump to Lightspeed", or 20 year old "X-Wing"? Yeah, harsh critizism.

No offense, but devs can try different things in their games from what you expect. And there lies the crux of the matter. Players expect so much and each player is different, so how the hell do you expect devs to keep developing for the genre ? All they can do is develope the game they envision and hope people will enjoy it. If you don't, time to move on.

I expected some sort of "life" on the planets, not randomly placed plastic troopers behaving like action figures in a toy park.

Yes, we could have had more non-military, non-essential NPCs wandering around in the main cities of planets. That is true. Things could be more fleshed out. It is obvious though that Bioware really emphasized the military aspect of the game since the backdrop is the Republic and Sith Empire starting a war. There is very little in the way of civilian contact in the game, or the idea of being in small villages and cities except in a few areas.

and so on. Yeah I want a different 200$ Dollar Star Wars MMO, put this game out of its misery, so another developer can get the license, give it to ANY developer, and do it quick.

I don't see that happening any time soon to be honest. With two MMORPGs that have had only middling at best results, I don't think LA will be throwing anymore money into this genre again soon. It is too risky, and I wouldn't blame them. If I were an investor, knowing what I know about this industry, I certainly wouldn't.

 

I don't think this game is the greatest since the invention of sliced bread, but I do not understand the sheer hatred it seems to have engendered especially on points that Bioware never said the game would have. That is what I am contesting.

@ murlockdance

Well they advertised open world PvP before launch. It was not a feature that had any bearing on anything save for your ability to individually progress in the PvP stat. There is a cold war going on between the Sith Empire and the Republic, but your participation in that is relegated to some dailies and cutscenes.

By systems I mean any of the systems normally associated with MMO world interaction (not just specials). Any system in SWTOR is the most streamlined, inflexible, simplistic form that you could have made. Crafting, character skills, starship upgrade and advancement, weapon upgrades, social interaction, the economy, player housing (It's your ship! yell the anti-housing league), guilds, light side/dark side, gathering resources, etc.

If you were to tell a story in the manner that SWTOR interfaces with its players (via its systems, not the cutscenes) it would be a short, boring summation that gave you the idea the guy telling the story would rather be doing something else. There is no love apparent in the crafting of this game, it seems to have been from the womb untimely ripped, and then left to die.

The levelling experience is around 8 for your first playthrough. Even if you choose different class/side the 2nd playthrough isn't even close as much fun.

Everything else in the game is pretty much a 0.

So yeah, I think 6.6 is bit harsh because it should be around 4.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by BadOrb

User rating down to 6.6

Carefully consider why that seems important, to you.

It was just the jump from 7.2 down to 6.6 over night that confused me really. Now that iv'e read what people think and know of the rating system , i understand. Anyways it's back up to 7.1 which isn't too bad for a community that mostly doesn't like the game.

Cheers,

BadOrb.

Originally posted by Scalpless

All ratings are down because of Path of Exile. The ratings are relative to other games and, since PoE is the new top game, it "stole" some points from other games.

It's a weird system and I'm still not entirely sure why MMORPG uses it.

Yup, since POE came back down from such a high schoor, TOR has gone back up to 7.15 which is pretty much where it was before.  This happens every single time a new game comes out and the first day or so is at the top.  Everytime we have a thread about it too, usually from the perspective of the 2nd place game and how much it dropped.

Originally posted by ignore_me

@ murlockdance

Well they advertised open world PvP before launch. It was not a feature that had any bearing on anything save for your ability to individually progress in the PvP stat. There is a cold war going on between the Sith Empire and the Republic, but your participation in that is relegated to some dailies and cutscenes.

By systems I mean any of the systems normally associated with MMO world interaction (not just specials). Any system in SWTOR is the most streamlined, inflexible, simplistic form that you could have made. Crafting, character skills, starship upgrade and advancement, weapon upgrades, social interaction, the economy, player housing (It's your ship! yell the anti-housing league), guilds, light side/dark side, gathering resources, etc.

If you were to tell a story in the manner that SWTOR interfaces with its players (via its systems, not the cutscenes) it would be a short, boring summation that gave you the idea the guy telling the story would rather be doing something else. There is no love apparent in the crafting of this game, it seems to have been from the womb untimely ripped, and then left to die.

 

 

They do have open world PvP, I mean it is not like the feature is disabled. There are also some PvP quests in each zone. I have not tried it because my computer has trouble resolving lots of players on my screen at one time (a huge flaw of ToR). The thing is bigger than Bioware though with respect to open world PvP in themeparks and is a big negative issue with them. Outside of AO, I barely know of a themepark MMO that elaborated on doing more than just being able to attack another player outside of a main city. For those who did not play AO, it had tower combat where enemy players could attack guild towers in certain zones at certain times. The towers were interesting to the guild that placed them because they provided certain benefits to everyone in the guild, so it was in the best interest of the guild to defend the towers they put up.  It was not an entirely open system, but it was a step in the right direction for allowing PvP that was more than just killing other people. And yes, guild politics certainly was involved in tower combat.

With respect to your other issues, I agree that things can definitely be improved on pretty much everything outside of the storyline and quest-related stuff, and the class customization which I find to be fine (what I mean by class customization are the talent trees, the legacy system, etc.). About the only thing I think class customization can benefit from is an AA point system like in the EQ series.

The crafting and item system is alright. I still hold the SWG one as the epitome of what a game can do that is not purely crafting oriented. However, to put in an SWG system in ToR is not really that possible. Instead, they can build up on their current one by adding in more recipes that you can discover through the quest crafting, perhaps work orders, and crafting quests. I would love to have more ways to acquire resources too, crafting gear, etc.