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General Discussion  » Dispelling some myths

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80 posts found
  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1050

 
OP  2/01/13 4:56:15 PM#41
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by fallenlords
Originally posted by ktanner3

I would think that most who enjoy this game are glad for it's niche appeal and could care less about being the most popular kid on the block. There are more than enough MMOs out there that cater to the lowest common denominator. Sorry that TSW wasn't another boring level and text based easy mode game for the ADD crowd. For the rest of us, games like these are a blessing. 

Fair enough it being niche, if that was the aim.  But Funcom went out to make a mainstream MMO with major appeal.   It didn't work, as a result the company is suffering and has had to alter it's whole strategy.   

 What about TSW makes you think that Funcom was trying to reach a mainstream audience? The complicated missions? The skill tree? The almost non-existent marketing for the game? Just what is it about TSW that makes you think Funcom was going for a mainstream MMO?

I'll agree with this one.  Everything about TSW is a niche audience, but maybe they were thinking X-Files popularity would reach a large audience(?)  Why they didn't scale their expectations to a more narrow audience is what has me puzzled.  M Rating.  Horror, not Fantasy.  Thinking quests.  Learning curve for the wheel.  TSW has much more in common with an EVE demographic than a GW2, and realizing that earlier would have made a big difference.

  Elsabolts

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 2669

Life Liberty and the Pursuit of those that would threaten It

2/01/13 5:07:20 PM#42

If this game and other Funcom games are so great why are they laying off folks? Bottom line is Funcom games are Hyped but lacking alot.

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 545

2/01/13 5:18:39 PM#43
Originally posted by ktanner3

 What about TSW makes you think that Funcom was trying to reach a mainstream audience?

In their own financial report Funcom projected TSW year one box sales between 1,050,000 and 1,365,000 and retention between 280,000 and 490,000.

( reference here)

Those sure seem like mainstream numbers to me.

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1050

 
OP  2/01/13 5:21:47 PM#44
Originally posted by Myria
Originally posted by ktanner3

 What about TSW makes you think that Funcom was trying to reach a mainstream audience?

In their own financial report Funcom projected TSW year one box sales between 1,050,000 and 1,365,000 and retention between 280,000 and 490,000.

( reference here)

Those sure seem like mainstream numbers to me.

Yep -- it's not the game (which is excellent), but rather the misplaced projections.  Given the niche audience, the target should have been low-med initially with a growth strategy over time.  The restructuring now is to bring that in line.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

2/02/13 3:58:10 AM#45
Originally posted by Ortwig

Yep -- it's not the game (which is excellent), but rather the misplaced projections.  Given the niche audience, the target should have been low-med initially with a growth strategy over time.  The restructuring now is to bring that in line.

Of course it's the game.  If this game had been something special we wouldn't be talking here now, we would be commenting on the ten millionth copy sold.   Where they went wrong was that had blind faith in Ragnar to deliver something amazing.   He thought he done that and was somewhat stunned by the poor performance of TSW.

 

This restricting is a company in a mad panic trying to stay alive, not some strategic maneuvering to bring them in line with a new strategy for TSW.   Still people don't seem to understand what is going on, Funcom have stated they are switching their focus to other types of games.  Quick turnaround, less development time.  They have to say they are going to still support the MMO's because that is their only revenue source at the moment.   They start releasing some single player games that do well, or some mobile/tablet games you will see what happens with regards to the MMO side of the business.
  User Deleted
2/02/13 4:03:22 AM#46

The quests and the lore are fantastic. The dungeons are great.

 

The PvP? Its a joke. Lets just call it how it is. And the combat? Also not great.

Are there other games out there with combat that is just as bland? Yes, yes there are. But is it one of the better combat systems? No, not even close.

Like you said, it is just 1-1-1-1-1-2-3-1-1-1-1-1-2-3 and use a few of the other skills on long cooldowns. They may as well just turned 1 into an autoattack like GW2 did and then let you hit the other skills as needed.

  EvilGeek

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 1241

My freedom relies on yours

2/02/13 4:13:06 AM#47


Originally posted by evilastro
The quests and the lore are fantastic. The dungeons are great.

 

The PvP? Its a joke. Lets just call it how it is. And the combat? Also not great.

Are there other games out there with combat that is just as bland? Yes, yes there are. But is it one of the better combat systems? No, not even close.

Like you said, it is just 1-1-1-1-1-2-3-1-1-1-1-1-2-3 and use a few of the other skills on long cooldowns. They may as well just turned 1 into an autoattack like GW2 did and then let you hit the other skills as needed.


Better combat than the root you to the spot while you cast games that are abundant for sure. It also makes you think about what's going to be useful and what isn't, I'll admit though it is easy to get a build that will see you through a lot of the game but I can guarantee they'll throw something at you that will force you to change. I can't see myself playing a game that roots you while casting again, which is the majority.


  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1050

 
OP  2/02/13 8:08:37 AM#48
Originally posted by evilastro

The quests and the lore are fantastic. The dungeons are great.

 

The PvP? Its a joke. Lets just call it how it is. And the combat? Also not great.

Are there other games out there with combat that is just as bland? Yes, yes there are. But is it one of the better combat systems? No, not even close.

Like you said, it is just 1-1-1-1-1-2-3-1-1-1-1-1-2-3 and use a few of the other skills on long cooldowns. They may as well just turned 1 into an autoattack like GW2 did and then let you hit the other skills as needed.

I think it would be fairer to say that *some* folks feel their rotation is repetitive, but others use different combos all the time.  If you mix up your decks, it will definitely have a different feel -- dps feels much different than tanking than healing than aoe than single person.  Not to mention the feels of the different weapons and abilities. I suppose if you are sticking with one deck for everything, never mixing it up, then yeah, the rotation could feel same-ish.  But I think that's more due to player style than the game mechanics.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

2/02/13 11:26:35 AM#49
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Myria
Originally posted by ktanner3

 What about TSW makes you think that Funcom was trying to reach a mainstream audience?

In their own financial report Funcom projected TSW year one box sales between 1,050,000 and 1,365,000 and retention between 280,000 and 490,000.

( reference here)

Those sure seem like mainstream numbers to me.

Yep -- it's not the game (which is excellent), but rather the misplaced projections.  Given the niche audience, the target should have been low-med initially with a growth strategy over time.  The restructuring now is to bring that in line.

 

The Q2 financial release from FC, noted they had sold less than 200k copies at the time, and had massively undersold as compared to expectations. They also noted spending $9.8 mil in advertising, including TSW launch expenses. They also wrote down $35 mil of the value of TSW and announced they were laying off 50% of the company and not making any more MMOs. None of that remotely suggests they got anything close to "mainstream numbers".
  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

2/08/13 4:31:54 AM#50

Well I got 'gifted' a copy of the game on Steam, somebody taking the mick. So trying not to look a gift horse in the mouth I thought I would give the game a whirl having not played it since beta. 

 

After playing my first two hours I was totally underwhelmed. I don't see much if any progress in the game.  Perhaps I can add-to or create some new myths.

 

  • Patcher lied to me.  Needs to update 433mb 22k files, I stopped counting at 800mb and 23k files. It then failed with a 'Fatal Error' that all resources were not downloaded and I had to restart the patcher. That is great to see the old resource database issue straight off the bat, something that plagued AOC and don't think was ever resolved.
  • Character customization is very limited.  What year are we in again?  Did I miss some options, because my customization options seem to be sex, hair, facial hair (male), few clothes and height. AOC had more options and that was Age of Clones.
  • Opening sequence is still boring, like having insomnia.
  • Voice acting done badly is comical.  I rolled a Templar and went to London.  London felt like I was in the film Mary Poppins with every cockney having been trained personally by Dick Van Dyke.  Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...A very British view of things by people that are obviously not British or are just taking the p***.
  • Dual wielding pistols I thought might be fun, but pistols that vanish so I am dual wielding empty hands that fire bullets... is somewhat of a novelty. I had a beard like that it AOC. It vanished or changed to a different color.  When changing zone.  Ironically my pistols vanished from my hands on changing zone.
  • Join the debate, but fast moving Zombies are an acquired taste. Believing the dead are walking in the first place is a stretch, but they are running with rigor mortis having set in stretches it too far for a lot of people.
  • Combat does suck, it has no feel to it.  I tested all the weapons a bit more this time before going out into the world.  All felt the same...they had no feeling...button mash time...
  • I am playing on yet another machine this time 64bit OS laptop.  Not expecting great performance at all, was even surprised that it ran so well.  But what I still don't understand is why it's better to go for a higher default option, such a 'high' settings.  Then tweaking things like shadows, gives you overall much better performance than selecting 'low' settings in the first place.
  • Where are the graphics options? That is the most dumbed down user interface I have seen.  Warns you not to play with the settings unless you are an 'advanced user' then gives you as an 'advanced user' just a load of sliders.  Which probably means the majority of the options need to be hacked in config files.
  • If I see a house with a door I want in feeds my exploration habit...the only open doors are open doors...or some doors that I interact with to sort of open...

 

Anyway, I have the game for 'life'.  So when I feel like some more self-flagellation I can look forward to playing it. Thank goodness Dead Space 3 arrived yesterday or my sanity may of been lost forever.
  User Deleted
2/08/13 4:42:21 AM#51
Originally posted by Ortwig

Okay, this is a repost from over on the Steam forums (not me), but I thought it summed up really well many of the preconceptions people have about TSW:

[Orignally posted by Mike Litoris]:

...

PvP doesn't exist and is broken:

Wrong. Just because people don't play your faction (cough - Dragon) doesn't mean it's dead, it just means you're not a part of the biggest of two factions enjoying it. Transfer to another server or change sides if it's what you're dying for. 

This is highly objectionable to me. Apparently this guy is not a dragon. I am.

 

This is not an altaholic's game. It's a pia to roll a new character and go through all the same AP/SP grind again. 

 

And abandoning the least populated faction to join one of the zergs only makes the problem worse. A 3-faction game with 2-factions that matter in pvp is broken. There is no way to hide that.

 

So I'm just going to criticize the little bit I quoted and leave it at that. But that right there is why some people think he's condescending. 

  User Deleted
2/08/13 4:42:28 AM#52

There are plenty of good games out at the moment and TSW is one of them, and I enjoy playing it. I honestly think there are just to many games on the market and we as folk just dont have enough time to spare to play them all as much as we like.

Then comes along good old justification to make our selfs feel better about not playing the latter...

  Sevenwind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/07/04
Posts: 2235

2/08/13 7:56:52 AM#53
Originally posted by fallenlords

 

Anyway, I have the game for 'life'.  So when I feel like some more self-flagellation I can look forward to playing it. Thank goodness Dead Space 3 arrived yesterday or my sanity may of been lost forever.

Since you like to quote metacritic from time to time have you seen the score for that game? I'm not talking about the critic score, but the user score.  5.6 xbox compared to TSW 8.2. Warms the heart to see players getting around the microtransactions in that game and making EA mad. 

In al fairness play what you like. Hope it's fun for you like TSW is for me.

.. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-

--------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1050

 
OP  2/08/13 8:15:00 AM#54
Originally posted by PWN_FACE
Originally posted by Ortwig

Okay, this is a repost from over on the Steam forums (not me), but I thought it summed up really well many of the preconceptions people have about TSW:

[Orignally posted by Mike Litoris]:

...

PvP doesn't exist and is broken:

Wrong. Just because people don't play your faction (cough - Dragon) doesn't mean it's dead, it just means you're not a part of the biggest of two factions enjoying it. Transfer to another server or change sides if it's what you're dying for. 

This is highly objectionable to me. Apparently this guy is not a dragon. I am.

This is not an altaholic's game. It's a pia to roll a new character and go through all the same AP/SP grind again. 

And abandoning the least populated faction to join one of the zergs only makes the problem worse. A 3-faction game with 2-factions that matter in pvp is broken. There is no way to hide that.

So I'm just going to criticize the little bit I quoted and leave it at that. But that right there is why some people think he's condescending. 

The real answer is to roll more Dragons, and yes, switching from the underdog to being part of the zerg is the problem, not the solution.  The limits on team ratios in  Fusang prevent complete dominance now, but now the queues are longer for the higher pop factions.  Dragons will get in quickly, so there's an incentive right there, just know you'll probably be outnumbered (just not as badly as previously.)  I believe the February update will make it easier to get into El Dorado and Stonehenge for players waiting in the Fusang queue, and you'll also be able to queue for El Dorado and Stonehenge from inside Fusang.

 

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

2/08/13 9:06:55 AM#55
Originally posted by Sevenwind
Originally posted by fallenlords

 

Anyway, I have the game for 'life'.  So when I feel like some more self-flagellation I can look forward to playing it. Thank goodness Dead Space 3 arrived yesterday or my sanity may of been lost forever.

Since you like to quote metacritic from time to time have you seen the score for that game? I'm not talking about the critic score, but the user score.  5.6 xbox compared to TSW 8.2. Warms the heart to see players getting around the microtransactions in that game and making EA mad. 

In al fairness play what you like. Hope it's fun for you like TSW is for me.

Dead Space 3 is not a great game, in fact it's quite annoying with it's set pieces.   But even though Dead Space 3 isn't that good it still overshadows TSW on all fronts. Production values, voice acting,  gameplay, action, weapons. monsters, gore (if we are comparing) ... I would score it about 7/10 as they have lost the scare factor.    But it's a Dead Space game that fits with the rest of them.  Action must be the way they want to take the franchise forward.    EA announced big pre-order numbers for Dead Space 3 as well.  Five times higher than Dead Space 2.

 

So an already successful game and franchise, compared to a third rate MMO... err Dead Space wins hands down.  Even being not that good.

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1050

 
OP  2/08/13 9:32:07 AM#56
Originally posted by Sevenwind
In al fairness play what you like. Hope it's fun for you like TSW is for me.

Eh, agreed -- way too many players willing to be swayed by 3rd party opinions -- everyone's going to have their own take and biases, though users have certainly given TSW a thumbs up on Metacritic with an 8.2 rating.   TSW does seem to bring out the "love it or hate it" opinions though (or at least the Funcom trollers); it certainly is a polarizing game.  My suggestion -- get a 24 hour buddy key, try it and decide for yourself.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

2/09/13 5:46:34 AM#57
Originally posted by Ortwig

Eh, agreed -- way too many players willing to be swayed by 3rd party opinions -- everyone's going to have their own take and biases, though users have certainly given TSW a thumbs up on Metacritic with an 8.2 rating.   TSW does seem to bring out the "love it or hate it" opinions though (or at least the Funcom trollers); it certainly is a polarizing game.  My suggestion -- get a 24 hour buddy key, try it and decide for yourself.

Third party opinions are normally what separates you from parting with your cash.   So it's very likely that a lot of people will be swayed by a combination of critic reviews and independent ones.   You can't rely on user reviews at all.  I once bought Alan Wake based on a user review saying it was like Metro 2033.  The person that wrote that review must of been on acid or something, the only similarity between the two games was they were both set in a dark environments. Though Alan Wake wasn't a bad game, just not my cup of tea.

 

The majority of the time a user is reviewing or scoring a game after purchase.  Which kind of hinders the whole process.   To say 'I bought a lemon' is to bring into question your own initial judgment. 

 

For an MMO you need a decent trial to bother going to the trouble of downloading 40gb of data, some people are still capped on their data download.   Why there isn't a decent trial I don't know.  Again Funcom are not making it easy for people to try the game, which to all intents and purposes seems to be the plan.  I half think they hope people will part with their cash to buy it, not like it and then not play it.
 
  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5631

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

2/09/13 6:01:00 AM#58
i only read the first lines of the combat sux. Yes it sux. Nobody said it sucks because people die from zombies. The animations are awful, the mechanics are bad. The combat system is just wrong. They should have a few builder skills, a few finishers, and then add more regular abilities with cooldowns and no builder / finisher. Spamming builders then finishing them is not fun when thats your only option in combat. Theres no tactics involved... just build build build finish with every skill then repeat.... thats wrong. My only problem with TSW is the combat (mechanics and character animations fighting and running). Everything else is fun. They needed to keep Age of Conan´s animations and combat in TSW but decided to add a poorly made and inferior one instead.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1050

 
OP  2/09/13 7:37:34 AM#59
Originally posted by rojo6934
i only read the first lines of the combat sux. Yes it sux. Nobody said it sucks because people die from zombies. The animations are awful, the mechanics are bad. The combat system is just wrong. They should have a few builder skills, a few finishers, and then add more regular abilities with cooldowns and no builder / finisher. Spamming builders then finishing them is not fun when thats your only option in combat. Theres no tactics involved... just build build build finish with every skill then repeat.... thats wrong. My only problem with TSW is the combat (mechanics and character animations fighting and running). Everything else is fun. They needed to keep Age of Conan´s animations and combat in TSW but decided to add a poorly made and inferior one instead.

Did you ever build more than one deck or change out any of your abilities?  There are plenty of special abilities with cooldowns.  Chaotic Pull is just one.  I'll agree somewhat with animations, but the mechanics are solid.  Tanking decks play very differently than dps decks than healing decks than solo decks.

  User Deleted
2/11/13 12:25:40 PM#60

The story, missions and lore is basically all that's good.


I didn't care for anything else but the quality of the quests justified the cost and two weeks of play for me.

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