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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Sony feels that F2P is the only way to go with MMO's

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118 posts found
  OgreRaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/11
Posts: 381

1/26/13 4:26:37 PM#21
At this point, with all the free games out there... I will not spend money on an MMO unless it is exceptional.  
  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/26/13 4:29:22 PM#22
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Fearum

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

1/26/13 4:49:18 PM#23
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

 F2P doesnt mean the game is any good, it just means its free.

 

 

To OP,...

You didnt quote him by saying that only about 10% of the 750000 actually spend money on anything in PS2, so that is alot of free loaders to carry for that 10%. And 10% isnt that much money unless they are spending whole paychecks. I doubt a AAA mmo sandbox game can survive long off of a pay scale like that.

  Xsonic

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/07/04
Posts: 94

A mind without purpose will wander in dark places.

1/26/13 4:50:37 PM#24
Planetside 2 got really stale after a short time. Now it's just a vehicle spam game.
  NorseGod

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/12
Posts: 580

1/26/13 5:23:57 PM#25

 

 

I can't afford F2P MMOs.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7356

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/26/13 5:36:09 PM#26
Originally posted by Burntvet

 

That is the problem. Lack of quality, not one business model vs another.

 

Exactly. The sub model just became a scapegoat for people like Smed to blame in the boardroom when he had to justify why he wasn't up there with the big boys anymore.

And what's worse, the freeloader ADHD 5 games at a time transients amongst the playerbase bought into it wholesale and starting spreading the word that F2P was 'the future' and repeated the corperate line mindlessly all over the internet.

I honestly think the period 2012-14 will be remembered as the dark days of the F2P client + cash shop as an ultimately failed experiment as more and more games go back to charging for the box at least. Even now there is a backlash against the F2P model and it's clear most devs see it as a second launch opportunity for their games rather then an out of the gate option.

 

Personally I think they have all got it are about face... Free client, 2 weeks trial, charge a standard sub, no cash shop, needs to be given a go.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/26/13 5:45:14 PM#27
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

 F2P doesnt mean the game is any good, it just means its free.

 A game being good or not has nothing to do with what is being spoken about which is who has more players or who is making more money.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  thinktank001

Elite Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1909

1/26/13 5:46:49 PM#28
Originally posted by Fearum

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

 

Interesting list.  I don't know if I can take it seriously for two reasons. 

1.  G1 has never been considered an MMORPG, except by delusional fanbois.  Yes, even the devs don't consider it one.

2.  Aion has always had a larger population than L1 and L2 combined and it isn't included on your list.

 

How do you measure a cash shop based game's population?   

 

  User Deleted
1/26/13 7:01:43 PM#29
Originally posted by rojo6934
The mentality of ¨its low quality because its F2P¨ should end. Specially since P2P stopped delivering quality years ago and still charge.

Considering that would crush arguments that treat P2P as the superior option, I doubt it's going anywhere anytime soon.

Afterall, it's apparently alright to criticize F2P as being low-quality, but GOD FORBID someone dares criticize a P2P, because P2P is the holy savior of MMOs, and will set the F2P losers free!

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/26/13 7:24:41 PM#30
Originally posted by thinktank001

Interesting list.  I don't know if I can take it seriously for two reasons. 

1.  G1 has never been considered an MMORPG, except by delusional fanbois.  Yes, even the devs don't consider it one.

2.  Aion has always had a larger population than L1 and L2 combined and it isn't included on your list.

 

How do you measure a cash shop based game's population?   

 

 1. You even quoted the wrong person.

2. G1 has only been called a non-MMORPG by haters. Sorry, even the devs called it an MMO...and so does every major website. The entire industry disagrees with you.

3. Aions top population was 3.5 miilion. Everything on my listed topped 4 million at its peak in popularity, in 2008 Lineage still had over 1 million active players...10 YEARS after release, something Aion went F2P in less than 3 years. Also Lineage eared NCsoft 1.3 billion from 1998 to 2012 and according to NCsoft Aion has not earned them 200 million in total profits. The games are made by the same company, and even they state Aion did not compare to their other products...which is why they made it F2P, because that is where the money is.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  thinktank001

Elite Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1909

1/26/13 8:09:35 PM#31
Originally posted by jtcgs 

 1. You even quoted the wrong person.

2. G1 has only been called a non-MMORPG by haters. Sorry, even the devs called it an MMO...and so does every major website. The entire industry disagrees with you.

3. Aions top population was 3.5 miilion. Everything on my listed topped 4 million at its peak in popularity, in 2008 Lineage still had over 1 million active players...10 YEARS after release, something Aion went F2P in less than 3 years. Also Lineage eared NCsoft 1.3 billion from 1998 to 2012 and according to NCsoft Aion has not earned them 200 million in total profits. The games are made by the same company, and even they state Aion did not compare to their other products...which is why they made it F2P, because that is where the money is.

 

It was originally labeled with your name, but I changed it because I thought I messed up this forums retarded formatting.   Turns out it was correct after all. 

 

GW1 isn't an MMORPG.  You just need to look at the FAQ

 

I don't know where you get your data, but MMOdata presents a different list.   Granted it is limited to mostly P2P games, but as I stated earlier it would nice to see how you created your list for cash shop based games.  They rarely post any numbers besides " created accounts ".

 

  

 

 

  User Deleted
 
OP  1/26/13 8:44:57 PM#32
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

I am not sure what imformed has anything to do with it?

1. its one companies opinion that being SOE

2. Not my infomation but acualy Im basing my Opinion on SOE past history with MMO games sorry I dont see any of those titles that you mention in your post belonging to SOE??

3. its a very proven fact that the only reason F2P games are just that is because its ia extended trial of the game to get you hooked on the cash shop also the DEVS of any F2P know that they can not and will not make money off subs any more except two games now that being WoW and EVE and a very small less then handful of titles that I care not to mention right now.

4. To back up 3 here is my list....

LotR

SWTOR

and all of SOE games that are include but not mention.

5. Games that went defunct after they went  to F2P

CoX

and a few others that i can care less bout mentioning at this time.

6. Im on a roll oh wait I might be more informed then some ppl may of thought. Games that could of been saved if they went to F2P

SWG

and a few others that i can care less bout mention at this time. Hmmm I see a trend here. lol

P2P also rules the console games just ask any PS3 owner or X-Box owner. hmm ok guess I was right that Sub games will not be phased out anytime soon.

This comming from a guy not well informed.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2779

1/26/13 9:14:32 PM#33
Originally posted by Isturi

Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format.

To whom are you reffering?

Blizzard? No one has, or ever will, come close to that "leader".

CCP? PS2 has nearly twice as many people logging in every week as Eve has subs.

Trion? See above.

Who else should we be looking to?

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  User Deleted
1/26/13 9:14:57 PM#34
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

I am not sure what imformed has anything to do with it?

1. its one companies opinion that being SOE

2. Not my infomation but acualy Im basing my Opinion on SOE past history with MMO games sorry I dont see any of those titles that you mention in your post belonging to SOE??

3. its a very proven fact that the only reason F2P games are just that is because its ia extended trial of the game to get you hooked on the cash shop also the DEVS of any F2P know that they can not and will not make money off subs any more except two games now that being WoW and EVE and a very small less then handful of titles that I care not to mention right now.

4. To back up 3 here is my list....

LotR

SWTOR

and all of SOE games that are include but not mention.

5. Games that went defunct after they went  to F2P

CoX

and a few others that i can care less bout mentioning at this time.

6. Im on a roll oh wait I might be more informed then some ppl may of thought. Games that could of been saved if they went to F2P

SWG

and a few others that i can care less bout mention at this time. Hmmm I see a trend here. lol

P2P also rules the console games just ask any PS3 owner or X-Box owner. hmm ok guess I was right that Sub games will not be phased out anytime soon.

This comming from a guy not well informed.

SWG could not have been saved by going F2P, for it was not an issue that could be addressed. SWG died because the contract was given to EA for SWTOR. That is the only reason SWG was ended. Otherwise, it would have been F2P in SOE's stable and doing well, like every one of their games are doing right now.

Regardless, F2P is indeed the future, I spend more on F2P games than I ever did in the years of subbing, but the difference is...I choose who and what games I support because of their endeavors, not because I'm locked in and have to. And the most important part, I don't have to give my personal info to F2P games insofar as CC,  game cards can be bought in their place, a great piece of mind.

For the posters who keep saying F2P players are leeches and just play the games for free, well...simply...you're wrong... and I'm not geting off your lawn. In fact, I'm calling my friends.. they have dogs and frisbees.

  pluzoid

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/01/07
Posts: 153

1/26/13 9:36:44 PM#35

Lets get one thing clear... SWG died because Sony bought the game from Serra studios and then runner it into the ground with there ridiculous NGE. The game wasn't ever perfect, but instead of trying to add more content to a game in dire need of new crafting schematics and more quests and dungeons, they just changed the most unique part of the game in a pathetic attempt of cloning wow.
I was there when thousands of PAGES in the forums protested SOE to not use the NGE, but instead they made a new forum and deleted everyone's pleas.

Swtor didn't kill the game, SOE did, just like they killed Matrix Online they bought from sera, if there ever was a mmo to work it should of been The Matrix... It's only planet side and eq that saves SOE from being the worst mmo makers in the industry....

  User Deleted
1/26/13 9:51:49 PM#36
Originally posted by pluzoid

Lets get one thing clear... SWG died because Sony bought the game from Serra studios and then runner it into the ground with there ridiculous NGE. The game wasn't ever perfect, but instead of trying to add more content to a game in dire need of new crafting schematics and more quests and dungeons, they just changed the most unique part of the game in a pathetic attempt of cloning wow.
I was there when thousands of PAGES in the forums protested SOE to not use the NGE, but instead they made a new forum and deleted everyone's pleas.

Swtor didn't kill the game, SOE did, just like they killed Matrix Online they bought from sera, if there ever was a mmo to work it should of been The Matrix... It's only planet side and eq that saves SOE from being the worst mmo makers in the industry....

I'm not going to defend SOE in regards to SWG, but simply put, the license given to them by Lucas expired, that is why the game ended...NO OTHER REASON. Lucas ended SWG, not SOE.

But back on topic...

If SWG existed today and would be F2P (like all SOE games) I would be playing and supporting it, because I liked the original game and it's crafting. I liked visiting it once in a while, but not enough to lock myself up with a sub.

Same would go for DAoC, if it was F2P, I would bite the bullet and maybe give EA money if they promise it goes to Mythic, lol.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/26/13 10:01:01 PM#37
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

I am not sure what imformed has anything to do with it?

 That pretty much sums it all up doesnt it. Not sure what being informed has to do with your opinion.

It isnt just SoE. EA has stated the same thing, the MMO industry is moving away from Subscriptions. NCsoft, stated that Subscription based gaming is an outdated way of thinking, Nexus, same thing.

So, EA the single largest game maker on the planet, Nexon the second largest gaming company on the planet, NCSoft who has made more MMORPGS than almost any other company and now SOE.

And if I were to include the smaller companies that have said it, Funcom and Turbine...who is left? Blizzard? Trion? wow, so many companies out the genre...

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  User Deleted
 
OP  1/26/13 10:38:40 PM#38
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

I am not sure what imformed has anything to do with it?

 That pretty much sums it all up doesnt it. Not sure what being informed has to do with your opinion.

It isnt just SoE. EA has stated the same thing, the MMO industry is moving away from Subscriptions. NCsoft, stated that Subscription based gaming is an outdated way of thinking, Nexus, same thing.

So, EA the single largest game maker on the planet, Nexon the second largest gaming company on the planet, NCSoft who has made more MMORPGS than almost any other company and now SOE.

And if I were to include the smaller companies that have said it, Funcom and Turbine...who is left? Blizzard? Trion? wow, so many companies out the genre...

There is a old saying that applies here "If you cant hang with the BIG dogs then get off the porch."

That is imformative to say the least. I still dont know what being imformed has anything to do with it?? Its mmo gaming not rocket since after all the BIG dogs are Blizz and Trion and if all those other MMO companies cant hang with Blizz and Trion then they need to and they got off the porch because they could not hang.

  User Deleted
1/26/13 10:50:00 PM#39
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi
Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Isturi

Now lets face it in my every so humble opinion. SOE I feel is not the giant it think it is in the MMO world and hey if F2P is working well for SOE then great, fantastic. Truth be told they will never keep up with the indrustry leader's that still use P2P format. I honestly do not see P2P going anywere any time soon.

 Now lets face it in my ever so humble opinion. Isturi I feel is not the informed person he thinks he is about MMOs, F2P or P2P. Truth be told, Nexon Inc is the second largest MMO maker on the planet and only one single game maker makes more in profits than they do, EA...and EA makes most of its money from its Console and single player PC sales...yet Nexon makes most of their money from F2P games.

Top population MMORPGs in history.

WoW

GW1

Lineage 2

Runes of Magic

Atlantica Online

GW2

Lineage

Vindictus

I honestly

2 subs, 2 B2Ps...the rest...F2P

I dont see how F2P doesnt continue to grow and take more and more business away from P2Ps which rarely last a long time before going F2P.

I am not sure what imformed has anything to do with it?

 That pretty much sums it all up doesnt it. Not sure what being informed has to do with your opinion.

It isnt just SoE. EA has stated the same thing, the MMO industry is moving away from Subscriptions. NCsoft, stated that Subscription based gaming is an outdated way of thinking, Nexus, same thing.

So, EA the single largest game maker on the planet, Nexon the second largest gaming company on the planet, NCSoft who has made more MMORPGS than almost any other company and now SOE.

And if I were to include the smaller companies that have said it, Funcom and Turbine...who is left? Blizzard? Trion? wow, so many companies out the genre...

There is a old saying that applies here "If you cant hang with the BIG dogs then get off the porch."

That is imformative to say the least. I still dont know what being imformed has anything to do with it?? Its mmo gaming not rocket since after all the BIG dogs are Blizz and Trion and if all those other MMO companies cant hang with Blizz and Trion then they need to and they got off the porch because they could not hang.

Last I checked, Blizz was being sold by Vivendi for the last year, without a single buyer interested.

Trion is a good company, but a big dog? no.

All the other companies mentioned, though none mentioned Perfect World from China, which is putting out successful mmos left and right, not to mention buying NA dev companies at a similar pace.

I definitely see the F2P market as the future, without a doubt. In your analogy of the porch, that porch is delapidated and about to be condemned, stay there at your own risk.

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/26/13 10:52:42 PM#40
Originally posted by Isturi

There is a old saying that applies here "If you cant hang with the BIG dogs then get off the porch."

That is imformative to say the least. I still dont know what being imformed has anything to do with it?? Its mmo gaming not rocket since after all the BIG dogs are Blizz and Trion and if all those other MMO companies cant hang with Blizz and Trion then they need to and they got off the porch because they could not hang.

 The big dogs are Blizzard and Trion?!?

Nexon makes a larger profit than both of those companies COMBINED from ALL SOURCES OF REVENUE.

You can total up all of Trions MMORPGs and they dont total GW2s playerbase...and GW1 had twice that...Trion is small and NCSoft made a larger profit last year than Trion made total before Profits.

As I said, your opinion and the word informed do not go hand in hand...like you keep repeating, you dont know what being informed has to do with your own opinion.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

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