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1/25/13 2:44:08 PM#61
Originally posted by jimdandy26 In theory, you can design the game where it takes a month, or a year (and not just weeks) to "normalize". Does that matter to you?
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VengeSunsoar
 Elite Member
Joined: 3/10/04
GRIND DOES NOT EXIST. IT IS ENTIRELY YOUR PERCEPTION. |
1/25/13 2:44:34 PM#62
Originally posted by jimdandy26 In your opinion. Nothing you stated is factual of course. You know, in ancient Egypt. One of the hieroglyphics on the walls of the pyramids actually says 'I am upset as my heir will ruin my kingdom' or something to that affect. This is 5000BC stuff and you know what? Nothing has changed. :P |
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kadepsyson
 Elite Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
1/25/13 2:45:34 PM#63
Originally posted by Loktofeit I don't mean to be antagonizing honestly. I do want to point out that the MMORPG industry does acknowledge and post about P2W. Path of Exile made by Grinding Gear Games has a clear stance against it, in fact. I agree that P2W isn't something that can be easily a category - probably because it's very hard to get a solid agreed upon definition around here haha El Psy Congroo |
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1/25/13 2:48:16 PM#64
Yes, damn these game companies whose devs spend THOUSANDS OF HOURS WORKING ON THESE GAMES and they want to get paid for it.
Who would've thought... I mean I understand disliking pay to win, I'd personally rather have a sub. But truly PTW is just their way of making money. Which is completely damned fair if you ask me, anyone who disagrees doesn't know shit about programming, designing, or anything of the likes. It takes HARD man hours. Tens of thousands of them. It's not easy. You think your in-game grind is hard, you don't know anything. And the fact is, if they don't have those things you pay for that give you an advantage, then people won't pay for it. Which is what they need, so they can continue to make their games, and continue to add content to their games, they need money. What is so wrong about that?
The only way to fix this is to bring back paid subs. Which people will also complain about.
So it comes down to this; lose people who don't want to pay for subs, or make it free so people who don't have money can play, thus increasing population and PR and media awareness of this game, drawing in even bigger crowds, eventually drawing in big money. Good for them. I hope they get all the money they need to pay their guys who work their asses off building these games. |
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Loktofeit
 Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/25/13 2:51:19 PM#65
Originally posted by kadepsyson I completely agree that getting everyone on the same page for P2W would be a project and a half. It's right up there with 'gank' on the list of terms so vague that they become damn near useless for meaningful discussion.
filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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1/25/13 2:53:31 PM#66
f2p hardly changes anything. Any player who spends the same money that they would pay for a sub in another game will be able to buy almost anything that they want in the cash shop.
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kadepsyson
Elite Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
1/25/13 2:54:15 PM#67
Originally posted by Loktofeit Yeah. Especially since a lot of times people know they are paying for an advantage - know it is pay to win, but refuse to say it. They will say it isn't anything like that, and make all sorts of discussion on how it isn't. They know it is one way, and claim another. That would make the defining of the term harder as well. Human nature :) El Psy Congroo |
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1/25/13 3:09:26 PM#68
Originally posted by nariusseldon Of course you could, but no one has yet. Its extremely poor design to do so. It would have to be a completely closed system, which does not work. There is always a way for a person to make up the difference, and usually its not anywhere near insurmountable odds like many make it out to be.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar What? I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won. To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance. |
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In other words, yes, I know games cost money to make. Right now P2W is a dirty word, but that is changing. BTW, Anything that (1) costs money and (2) advances character progression is, by definition, P2W. I enjoyed reading everyone's input. Thanks. Playing: Rome Total War, Master of Orion II, Majesty 2, and Telengard. |
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VengeSunsoar
Elite Member
Joined: 3/10/04
GRIND DOES NOT EXIST. IT IS ENTIRELY YOUR PERCEPTION. |
1/25/13 3:57:57 PM#70
Originally posted by jimdandy26 You stated, "The "line" between whats p2w and not is "is this available in game". This is strictly opinion. Just as no one agrees on what pay two win items are, no one agrees on where the line is. This is not fact, don't present it as such. You know, in ancient Egypt. One of the hieroglyphics on the walls of the pyramids actually says 'I am upset as my heir will ruin my kingdom' or something to that affect. This is 5000BC stuff and you know what? Nothing has changed. :P |
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1/25/13 4:02:32 PM#71
Originally posted by Arclan No its not. If you can spend cash to buy an advantage, that is P2W - "buy to win". A lot of F2P games don't qualify. Your definition is piss poor.
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. -Author unknown, attributed to Mark Twain |
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Loktofeit
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
EVE in 2013 - DUST 514, CSM8, Fanfest, 10th Anniversary, Uprising, Odyssey. Gonna be a good year :) |
1/25/13 4:28:13 PM#72
Originally posted by Arclan You've perfectly described an expansion pack. filmoret: One thing I have never figured out is why the game devs hardly ever fix simple problems that arise. It is like they don't care about the pvp community. Nitth: What makes you so sure its a simple fix? filmoret: Because most of them are. Sometimes its just changing a number in a code string other times its creating a few variables. However none of them should take over a few hours of coding. |
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kadepsyson
Elite Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
1/25/13 4:30:14 PM#73
Originally posted by Loktofeit Ha, that is awesome. Good call on that! El Psy Congroo |
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1/25/13 7:28:04 PM#74
Originally posted by kadepsyson ahah ... i am 100% for p2w now :) |
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kadepsyson
Elite Member
Joined: 5/15/06
The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that. |
1/25/13 7:30:25 PM#75
Originally posted by nariusseldon Ha, yeah. Hey you know those free trials? Where you have to buy (or PAY for) the full game to keep going? PAY TO WIN! at least according to Arclan. El Psy Congroo |
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1/25/13 7:49:15 PM#76
IMO, the P2W model is gone for years now. Sure there's still some MMO that does it, but most of them have completely stop using this stupid model. When I started looking into F2P MMO about 3-4 years ago, the F2P P2W model was all over the place. Now those games can be counted on 1 hand. For me, P2W is something you only need to worry about in PvP.
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Beatnik59
 Elite Member
Joined: 11/23/05
"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977." |
1/25/13 9:55:28 PM#77
In the early days, the MMORPG was "Geek Society," everyone could create the kind of character they wanted to play. Then we had MMORPGs as "Geek Football," where everyone would play "positions" in a combat team (DPS, Tank, Crowd Control, Healer, etc.). Today, the MMORPG is "Geek Nightclub," where everyone shows off how conspicuously they can consume by sporting the latest fashions from the item store. __________________________ "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." |
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1/25/13 11:40:23 PM#78
Any F2P game that is P2W usually gets a nice bit of commotion and either the dev fixes the issue or the players leave. So to address the OP... state your evidence of P2W and in which F2P game. Otherwise, 'pics or it didn't happen.' |
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1/26/13 8:08:05 AM#79
the pay to win model is stupid and so are people that accept it mortal online , dc universe , rose online , age of conan , allods , all examples of typical pay to win games .
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1/26/13 8:12:25 AM#80
Originally posted by Rider071 pay to win = allods were a player can buy pure pvp power in cash shop . not pay 2 win but definatly free to play = path of exile were cash shop only sells cosmetic items and cash CANNOT buy power. seriously you needed someone to explain the difference to you? obviously yes or why did you ask . pics or it didn't happen ? is that like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it then it didn't happen or something? |
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