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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How long will MMOs hide P2W behind the veil of FTP?

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210 posts found
  Swiftrevoir

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/05
Posts: 162

1/25/13 2:02:04 PM#21
I don't play P2W games so I could care less how long they do their thing.  More than likely longer than I will live. There are many FTP games that aren't P2W so if you're having a problem with a particular title...move on.  BTW the MMO PS2 is FTP but not P2W.  ^^
  Bossalinie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 621

1/25/13 2:02:47 PM#22
It's not the company's fault people can't control their money.

"Whoah whoah whoah...sorry bud. You are funding me way too much of your money"

- Says no one
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4784

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/25/13 2:03:22 PM#23
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

 Thats right and considering f2p MMO's with cashs shops have been around since before UO I  would say there really is no generation that didn't accept them in some way.

LOLwut. What f2p existed before UO? Since many pin UO for inadvertantly creating the f2p model in the first place.

 

Also, what exactly are you calling p2w? I see that term get thrown around a lot when its not in the slightest.

 Furcadia 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

1/25/13 2:05:01 PM#24
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Bossalinie
@Blasphim umm...you just described pretty much every hobby that involves money...

Those games arent simply hobby, they are competition. If some have advantage simply because they can put more money in it, it becomes a problem.  What's stopping the dev to put in an I Win button that make you invulnerable and insta kill anyone else for 5000$.

I am not against micro transaction for cosmetic stuff. Or even bonus to leveling but anything that cannot be obtained by everyone that plays the game is game breaking for me.

I will never play a P2W game.

Why is that a problem, unless it is pvp? If i group, why is it a problem if the other guy bought a shield + 5 and can tank better?

What is stopping dev to put in an "I win" button .. is that it makes the game no fun, and everyone will leave. You want to give SOME advantage but not to much to make the game trivial.

People don't want to be invulnerable, they just want to have a better chance beating the challenge. You let them pay for what they want.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5432

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

1/25/13 2:06:00 PM#25
Originally posted by Bossalinie
@Blasphim umm...you just described pretty much every hobby that involves money...

not really. a good example of a hobby that involves money is Tennis. I grew up playing tennis for free all my life back in my country. Our trainer was part of our own team so he made profits off tournaments and teaching others outside our group, not our actual group. Here in the US you wont find free trainers and the people i have played with here that payed a trainer many years play as good as i did for free and some of them lose fairly quick too. So i guess not all hobbies are pay to win  ;D

But gaming is different, pay to win games should not be accepted. :D

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 498

1/25/13 2:06:02 PM#26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

 Thats right and considering f2p MMO's with cashs shops have been around since before UO I  would say there really is no generation that didn't accept them in some way.

LOLwut. What f2p existed before UO? Since many pin UO for inadvertantly creating the f2p model in the first place.

 

Also, what exactly are you calling p2w? I see that term get thrown around a lot when its not in the slightest.

 Furcadia 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

 

you realise P2W and F2P are 2 different things

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 498

1/25/13 2:07:43 PM#27
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Bossalinie
@Blasphim umm...you just described pretty much every hobby that involves money...

Those games arent simply hobby, they are competition. If some have advantage simply because they can put more money in it, it becomes a problem.  What's stopping the dev to put in an I Win button that make you invulnerable and insta kill anyone else for 5000$.

I am not against micro transaction for cosmetic stuff. Or even bonus to leveling but anything that cannot be obtained by everyone that plays the game is game breaking for me.

I will never play a P2W game.

Why is that a problem, unless it is pvp? If i group, why is it a problem if the other guy bought a shield + 5 and can tank better?

What is stopping dev to put in an "I win" button .. is that it makes the game no fun, and everyone will leave. You want to give SOME advantage but not to much to make the game trivial.

People don't want to be invulnerable, they just want to have a better chance beating the challenge. You let them pay for what they want.

I was talking pvp, I dont care about p2w pve games. And people dont want it you say ? I guess thats why no one cheats in games

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4784

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/25/13 2:09:56 PM#28
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

 Thats right and considering f2p MMO's with cashs shops have been around since before UO I  would say there really is no generation that didn't accept them in some way.

LOLwut. What f2p existed before UO? Since many pin UO for inadvertantly creating the f2p model in the first place.

 

Also, what exactly are you calling p2w? I see that term get thrown around a lot when its not in the slightest.

 Furcadia 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

 

you realise P2W and F2P are 2 different things

 Yes I do.  However there is huge disagreement on this site as to what constitutes p2w.  If there is a game that has a cs, there are people that are saying it's p2w.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Bossalinie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 621

1/25/13 2:12:20 PM#29
@rojo6934 just because you didnt pay for anything out of your pocket doesnt mean it didnt cost. It was time he didnt charge you for. Your situation is a perfect correlation to a high level character giving you his old gear and power leveling you.
  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 498

1/25/13 2:13:01 PM#30
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

 Thats right and considering f2p MMO's with cashs shops have been around since before UO I  would say there really is no generation that didn't accept them in some way.

LOLwut. What f2p existed before UO? Since many pin UO for inadvertantly creating the f2p model in the first place.

 

Also, what exactly are you calling p2w? I see that term get thrown around a lot when its not in the slightest.

 Furcadia 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

 

you realise P2W and F2P are 2 different things

 Yes I do.  However there is huge disagreement on this site as to what constitutes p2w.  If there is a game that has a cs, there are people that are saying it's p2w.

Don't think you can disagree on anything there. F2P means free to play, you could add microtransaction that are or are not P2W (pay to win) . So in the end it's really simple, pay to win means paying to get an advantage over other players.

  Blasphim

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/11
Posts: 347

Darkness is Death's ignorance, and the Devil's time

1/25/13 2:13:39 PM#31


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Azoth

Originally posted by Bossalinie @Blasphim umm...you just described pretty much every hobby that involves money...
Those games arent simply hobby, they are competition. If some have advantage simply because they can put more money in it, it becomes a problem.  What's stopping the dev to put in an I Win button that make you invulnerable and insta kill anyone else for 5000$. I am not against micro transaction for cosmetic stuff. Or even bonus to leveling but anything that cannot be obtained by everyone that plays the game is game breaking for me. I will never play a P2W game.
Why is that a problem, unless it is pvp? If i group, why is it a problem if the other guy bought a shield + 5 and can tank better?

What is stopping dev to put in an "I win" button .. is that it makes the game no fun, and everyone will leave. You want to give SOME advantage but not to much to make the game trivial.

People don't want to be invulnerable, they just want to have a better chance beating the challenge. You let them pay for what they want.


But why should someone with a disposable income greater than someone else's have an advantage in a virtual game? The college student playing with the money he earned from tips working at the the local bar should not be at a disadvantage in a game compared to the CFO of Microsoft.

Out in the real world it's a completely different issue, of course the CFO will have nicer things, he can afford them, that's the perks of having that kind of money.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19506

1/25/13 2:14:53 PM#32
Originally posted by Azoth
 

I was talking pvp, I dont care about p2w pve games. And people dont want it you say ? I guess thats why no one cheats in games

Well, the topic is about p2w, and no where it said only pvp. So you agree p2w is not a problem in pve? There are people who don't care abotu pvp, and only pve games, you know.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

1/25/13 2:17:19 PM#33
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

 Thats right and considering f2p MMO's with cashs shops have been around since before UO I  would say there really is no generation that didn't accept them in some way.

LOLwut. What f2p existed before UO? Since many pin UO for inadvertantly creating the f2p model in the first place.

 

Also, what exactly are you calling p2w? I see that term get thrown around a lot when its not in the slightest.

 Furcadia 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

 

Thats a mud. This is why you should not take wikipedia at face value. On top of which it did not launch with a cash shop. It merely launched free, just like virtually every mud did at the time.

 

[mod edit] Paying to win is simply when you can buy power that is not available in game. Some can argue that convience (xp boost) equates to power, and in certain systems they would be right, but honestly its rarely the case.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 2:17:24 PM#34
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Azoth
 

I was talking pvp, I dont care about p2w pve games. And people dont want it you say ? I guess thats why no one cheats in games

Well, the topic is about p2w, and no where it said only pvp. So you agree p2w is not a problem in pve? There are people who don't care abotu pvp, and only pve games, you know.

Actually when I read what you quoted, it sounds like Azoth admits there are pay to win pve games.  Just that isn't what Azoth cares about as one person.

Reading: important everyday.

El Psy Congroo

  Bossalinie

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/29/07
Posts: 621

1/25/13 2:18:07 PM#35
@Blasphim Is that any worse than an individual who can't play the game at all because he can't front X amount of money a month for a subscription?

At least the individual gets to play the game in P2W situations...
  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4784

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/25/13 2:18:52 PM#36
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

 Thats right and considering f2p MMO's with cashs shops have been around since before UO I  would say there really is no generation that didn't accept them in some way.

LOLwut. What f2p existed before UO? Since many pin UO for inadvertantly creating the f2p model in the first place.

 

Also, what exactly are you calling p2w? I see that term get thrown around a lot when its not in the slightest.

 Furcadia 1996

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

 

you realise P2W and F2P are 2 different things

 Yes I do.  However there is huge disagreement on this site as to what constitutes p2w.  If there is a game that has a cs, there are people that are saying it's p2w.

Don't think you can disagree on anything there. F2P means free to play, you could add microtransaction that are or are not P2W (pay to win) . So in the end it's really simple, pay to win means paying to get an advantage over other players.

edited - The point was there was a f2p game before UO.  Furcadia is f2p.  It does have a cash shop and you can discuss whether the items are p2w or not however it is still f2p.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12125

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

1/25/13 2:20:38 PM#37
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Bossalinie
@Blasphim umm...you just described pretty much every hobby that involves money...

Those games arent simply hobby, they are competition.

For you.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11429

1/25/13 2:22:27 PM#38
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Azoth

Don't think you can disagree on anything there. F2P means free to play, you could add microtransaction that are or are not P2W (pay to win) . So in the end it's really simple, pay to win means paying to get an advantage over other players.

If you don't think there is a lot disagreement on this forum regarding that, read the forum more.  Xp boosts alone will cause a 10 page thread on whether it's p2w.

i agree

 

people wont agree on the meaning of p2w

or the meaning of mmorpg  and who knows what else !

  VengeSunsoar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4784

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

1/25/13 2:22:37 PM#39
Originally posted by jimdandy26
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
 

If you don't think there is a lot disagreement on this forum regarding that, read the forum more.  Xp boosts alone will cause a 10 page thread on whether it's p2w.

Some say anything you can in a shop that you can get in game is p2w because your not earning it.  People say the 2 second differene in harvesting in FE between the f2p and the subscribers is a huge disadvantage.

People say all cosmetic items should be available in game, if you don't earn them they are pay to win.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 2:22:40 PM#40
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Azoth
Originally posted by Bossalinie
@Blasphim umm...you just described pretty much every hobby that involves money...

Those games arent simply hobby, they are competition.

For you.

And others, including those who make a living by playing games.  Just because you have a different kind of income, doesn't mean others do not play games to compete, or do so to make their living.

Also, I'm not even sure why you'd respond with "For you."  Are you sure that Azoth does in fact use them as competition?  Or did you mean something more like "Not for me."  Azoth could have been referring to other people, best not to assume until you know for sure, eh?

El Psy Congroo

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