Originally posted by Tayah

Originally posted by boxsnd
@all who want P2P. Can you name some P2P MMOs which released after 2005 that were successful? I honestly can't even think of one. What makes you believe ESO will have a different fate?

We can't because they've all been terrible WoW clones, that's why they're not P2P. There's a reason games like UO, Asheron's Call, DAOC still have players and subscriptions, they weren't shitty themeparks.

I would ask you, how many mmo's in the past few years that have gotten 500k-over 1 Mill to buy them knowing full well they were subscription based, only to have people leave in droves after the first couple months, then the game having to go B2P or F2P. People will pay a subscription for a game they really like, they won't pay it for a game that's not worthy a subscription.

well, SWTOR wasn't a WOW clone, TERA isn't a WOW clone, TSW certanly isn't a WOW clone...

Except for SWTOR, those are good games.. But, the market has changed too much at this point, gaming crowd is one of the toughest crowds to please and it get's harder with each day.

We've seen alot of good ideas floping when they were released and we've seen alot less good ideas succeeding... But the main thing is that the competition is now growing bigger and bigger every day, people won't pay for just about anything and that's why all those great games which could've succeed, failed - because of the wrong sub model.

Times changed and I think people are realising the actual value of their money in MMORPGs...

BTW, P2P model after 2005. in NA/EU is RIFT. It's a stable game with decent income if they're managing to keep it alive and add expansions so it's a success in my book. There's alot of them in East with P2P model, but their P2P model is so much different from ours and so much cheaper so I'm not taking it under consideration.

Subscription all the way, especially if it's going to keep the implementation of an item shop out of it. I just hate item shops.

People say they're getting used to them, but it's the exact opposite with me. Somehow they're actually bugging me more and more! :)

I would like to see a sub based game, but Im thinking there goin the B2P, plus cash shop route.

My 2 cents.

Depends on what your goal is.

If you want a quick cash grab, I'd say subscription + box + cash shop (secret world) or introducing some rmah+box fee.

If you want a long term success like wow (which I doubt anyone can reproduce at all), subscription would seem the obvious choice although in this market, you would need an amazing game (one game to rule them all) and a huge marketing budget. However, up till now no recent major AAA MMo's have come out which remained sub (correct me if im wrong though, wasn't sure about rift)

If you want just an ok success, the standard seems to be f2p (See LoL), cashshop (avoiding pay 2 win)

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Squeak69

i hope TESO will take a stand and go back to P2P i mean come on 15 is average for P2P

you cant tell me thats sets you back when you already own a com that can handle it and are paying for a highspeed internet line.

if you fill you need to get the money somewhere drink one less at the bar cut your own hair instead of barber ( no wait dont do that ) skip eating out one day and cook something at the house. get the cheap gas instead of the good gas, HELL WALK.

my point is everyone gose on and on about F2P is bettter cause they cant aford it, well ya know what i know peopple who say they cant aford the cost of gas but spend a few hundred every weekend on bar hopping. . .. . . . . . there would be more money for things if people would watch their money better

great now im ranting on things that dont have to do with thread :p

hey look at that! another that want's to tell everyone how they should use their money. Figures....

im not telling peple how to use their money, ok maybe i am in that rant

but in the end im mainly sick of people complaining about the cost of sub when they throw money at othere things that they get less time out of and pay alot more

Originally posted by Nikopol

Subscription all the way, especially if it's going to keep the implementation of an item shop out of it. I just hate item shops.

People say they're getting used to them, but it's the exact opposite with me. Somehow they're actually bugging me more and more! :)

i agree i hate them damn things

B2P, like Guild Wars, in my opinion. Look at the subscription based mmo games that have followed WoW. Most have turned to F2P, or closed their doors, within 1-2 years max. I really don't think this game will be any different with a subscription model. After a couple months, content becomes boring, and new content doesn't rapidly come out. People start feeling that the game is dull, and they decide to go back to an already well established and content rich WoW. This happens much faster if the game is full of bugs at release.

Then look at Guild Wars 2. Not only did they have a solid launch, but they are still selling tons of copies of the game. If I get bored of Guild Wars 2, I can just take a break for awhile without feeling like my money is being wasted. If I quit a subscription based game, I'm very unlikely to resubscribe, because I can't test the game to see if it's fun again. My money isn't tight, and I'm 28 years old, so that isn't the problem. I just don't like throwing my money towards things that aren't worth it.

Buy to Play with a cosmetic cash shop. One listen to Jack Emmert at the Gen Con 2012 D&D Digital, part 2 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5QFqtpWO1s&feature=player_detailpage Starts around the 4:40 mark talking of F2P and why certain games fail because of B2P and how they could have been better as a F2P. He makes perfect sense. He also talks how F2P allows gamers who can afford it the luxury of being able to purchase "wants" in the game, he expands upon this in the context of Comic Books. He says: As a Fan I can easily spend $500 a month in comic book paraphernalia but not because he needs to, but because he wants too. If you enjoy the game, there will be avenues for you to spend money. In essence only a very small percentage of player base will use the cash shops but still the company will be profitable.

This is essence is why Cash Shops with cosmetics are the best source of revenue. First you bring in more players (which is a fact) and second you allow fans to buy what they want from a cash shop. The Sparkly Ponies in WoW are a perfect example, IMO WoW would make a ton more money if they went F2P, and institute a cash shop with cosmetics. It’s working wonderfully for GW2 and as long as the game is good enough it will work for ESO. Subs are dying and for good reason, they're dinosaurs.

Plus you need to realize that the vast majority of gamers do not play MMO's because of the stigma of being subscription based, if you want to draw more players in then you need to be F2P or B2P from the ground up? If you start out sub based, you’ve already lost a very high percentage of potential player base because the stigma of going F2P after being subscription based means the game failed, whereas starting off as F2P or B2P is more of a sign of being "with the times".

Have to say B2P with a cosmetic only cash shop (mounts, skin etc.)

They can make alot of money with just services like name change, sex change and so on.

Blizzard makes millions just on customer services. like their 25 dollar mounts and 15 dollar companions.

Like it or not all MMOs will have Microtransactions. So I say let me buy the game to show support and pay for the services when i need it..

Just my two cents.

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Aeonblades
P2P Subscription. It's the best way to avoid 75% of MMO asshats.

Have you played wow?

This is the first thing I thought. 

I'm playing LOTRO and Vanguard, which are both f2p, but I have found the community in both games great. Far better for me than WoW, which is b2p. 

Regarding OPs question, I really don't think we know enough about the game to decide on what will be most profitable for them. I am wary of cash shops in games with pvp. They can be done well, so I think most new games will be b2p (like TSW) or f2p with an option to sub (hopefully, like Vanguard). But like I said, we need more info to make a decision from the business point of view.

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Originally posted by Remyi
B2P, like Guild Wars, in my opinion. Look at the subscription based mmo games that have followed WoW. Most have turned to F2P, or closed their doors, within 1-2 years max.

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Considering there is only like 2 b2p games on the market....What happens when b2p games start going south?

Originally posted by Nitth

 

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Originally posted by Remyi
B2P, like Guild Wars, in my opinion. Look at the subscription based mmo games that have followed WoW. Most have turned to F2P, or closed their doors, within 1-2 years max.

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Considering there is only like 2 b2p games on the market....What happens when b2p games start going south?

They either improve the game, offer incentive to keep playing, or take their profit/loss and move on. Hell, even the original Guild Wars has a decent player base still. That's the bonus to the model. You can take a break for a month, and jump right back in. Not that you should be playing games in this situation, but you are also able to keep playing if you lose your job for whatever reason. Also, the model provides cheaper server costs for them. Defiance is going with the B2P model as well.

My personal decision is to never play another subscription based MMORPG. I have plenty of stuff on my inactive WoW account, if I want to go that route. I would consider paying a subscription fee for some other form of MMO, like a FPS, if it struck my interest. This is why I really hope they don't head that direction. I really love the lore of The Elder Scrolls, and the game looks really interesting to me.. but I don't need yet another failed subscription based MMORPG that sits on my shelf unused.

B2P

Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months?

The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.

Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.

No box price, 9$ sub,. with F2P with cash shop option.

Box prices scare the shit out of after GW2, RIFT, and Pandaland.

B2P, TSW and GW2 kinda have me spoiled now (even though I had a lifetime sub to TSW already) I dont wanna go back to paying subs ever again!

Also I enjoy having more than one MMO at a time now. Subs make me feel like I have to be too commited to one game.

Originally posted by Se7enSins

B2P

 

Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months?

The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.

 

Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.

Actually,

Ultima Online

Asheron's Call

Eve

Dark Age of Camelot

NexusTK

Warhammer

    All still require subscriptions to play. I'm sure there are more i'm missing.