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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Sexism in Gaming 2012: Anger & Intellect

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234 posts found
  Betaguy

Elite Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2522

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/25/13 11:08:01 AM#21
Originally posted by Magnetia

I am fairly certain that some female players know and take advantage of the fact that male players will be nicer to them / give them free stuff / be more willing to help.

Just saying we aren't the only criminals. 

 Exactly this, the females are way worse then men. 80% of the women I have ever played with know this and use this cheap tactic on the weak, lonely gamer geeks.

  Scottgun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 340

1/25/13 11:08:16 AM#22

It seems plenty of time and typing could have been saved if you posted a link to online disinhibition effect and been done with it. What's next? "I hate that cats scratch the furniture"?

 

 

How not to sell me on a game: "And most people that make it past the tutorial seem to appreciate [x game's] uniqueness, even if they don't find it fun."

  ScaryMonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/13
Posts: 102

1/25/13 11:13:13 AM#23
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
Originally posted by NorseGod

First-world problems in video games.

I play MMOs to take a break from social issues and other RL crap. Guess I can go back to doing what I did before I got interested in MMOs. :hiccup:

Exactly this.  

Dam when I play a game there are a bunch of pixels running around looking like either male or female (or a bit of both if anime) and I have no idea who the player controlling them is or what they look like.  Neither do I care unless we get chatting and group up regularly.  Yes there are always trolls, and idiots, they go on the ignore list.      

What games are people playing where all this sexism and bullying and general un-pc behaviour happens?

As for sexism in the workplace, I hardly think this is the forum for a reasoned debate on the subject.  

 

Except that this highlights part of the problem. Instead of you and others saying "really? people are being abused because of x, that' terrible" you instead attack the whole thing. I find that very telling.

Though the problem is a larger one and is more of a societal thing. As an example, the idea that "if a woman doesn't want to be harassed she shouldn't wear revealing clothing" seems silly as a woman should be able to wear whatever she wants. Having said that "the reality" is that if a woman wears revealing clothing then it's going to invite comment from those who just don't know how to behave.

In a perfect world she shouldn't have to make the decision to wear a head to toe frock over something she finds attractive but since this isn't a perfect world that decision is always there.

On the other hand, though there are women who get unwanted attention from dorks who never learned how to speak to people, there are women (and men) who look for drama and look for anything to give them legitimacy for being a victim. In other words, they like to use the victim card and perhaps put themselves in situations where they can eventually cry "I'm being oppressed".

The important thing is to be attentive to the legitimate compalints and be aware that there are others who want to define themselves as "victim".

Lastly, video games are played by people and nothing that people do ever resides in a vacuum. Behavior doesn't suddenly get better once someone logs in and says "I'm in a game and now all those pesky issues get left behind". People bring baggage with them wherever they go.

I take slight objection to the conclusions you seem to be drawing about my character in your response.  I am not going to defend myself because frankly the slightly accusatory tone you use is absurd given that you are forming it from a position of complete ignorance about me.    

In response: I am playing a computer game, that is all.  I run around and shoot gremlins or some such nonsense.  What is it that you expect me to be doing other than this to combat an issue I have never even seen occur within my computer game? 

 

  Battlerock

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/11
Posts: 731

1/25/13 11:16:26 AM#24
I have been in guilds that this was prevalent and I took it upon myself to destroy the guild from the inside out. I was successful many times. Right now I'm in a great guild though we have many many members a good mix of women and men and I have not seen one drop of sexism and I'm really suprised, considering some of the childish silly things we do in game. I'm not going to mention the guild name but kudos to them for keeping it clean. It's probably the first guild I have been in that men and women are looked at equally.
  Harafnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/18/04
Posts: 1362

1/25/13 11:17:11 AM#25
If you have a problem with ANY of her points... Then you are one of the guys she is talking about. Just letting you know.

"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"

  ScaryMonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/13
Posts: 102

1/25/13 11:20:31 AM#26
Originally posted by Harafnir
If you have a problem with ANY of her points... Then you are one of the guys she is talking about. Just letting you know.

Are you trying to be ironic?  MMORPG.com: Not the place to come for any remotely sensible or reasoned debate on any subject.  I am beginning to remember why I deleted my last account.  

  Ryowulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/28/05
Posts: 667

1/25/13 11:21:04 AM#27

If you want to see examples of what the author is talking about go on Twitch.  Find a woman doing a game cast, someone who has more than just a couple of viewers and see how many comments are made based on her gender.

Or just ask her if she gets that kind of treatment.

On male game cast, I don't see a lot of "Your hair looks nice today" "Do you have a bf?" "Show us your ****"

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6486

"Only cunts name their swords"

1/25/13 11:22:55 AM#28
Putting collective blame and/or punishment on us men is nonsense. I haven't neither seen nor done any of these actions described in this article so I am not going to take any blame for it. I think it is a very small minority which does these things but for some reason it always get blown out of proportion in the media and then somehow tries to wilifies all men.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16937

1/25/13 11:23:09 AM#29
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
 

I take slight objection to the conclusions you seem to be drawing about my character in your response.  I am not going to defend myself because frankly the slightly accusatory tone you use is absurd given that you are forming it from a position of complete ignorance about me.    

In response: I am playing a computer game, that is all.  I run around and shoot gremlins or some such nonsense.  What is it that you expect me to be doing other than this to combat an issue I have never even seen occur within my computer game? 

 

ok, great. And I don't know you so you might be a saint. But your, and other, responses are not about "wow, that's terrible that "some" people have to put up with this crap" but more about lashing out in some fashion at the mere mention of it.

yes, you play a computer game and you attack gremlins. Good for you. Me too for that matter. But the same could be said for "hey, I only want to go to the store, pick up my milk and go home. No drama". However, because people are people they bring drama. Some try to minimize and mitigate drama. But I've witnessed both sexual harrassment and just "harassment" in these games AND witnessed people who created drama and then became all "oh my, i'm being harrassed and I never asked for it" when clearly they did.

As a gross side note, I was once in game (lineage 2) and had a female character as an alt. And what happened? Some creep started hitting on me and in a very pathetic and disgusting way. He actually though my character was a female in real life.

Just because you haven't seen this issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Is your reaction going to be "I've never seen it so it doesn't exist period" or is your reaction going to be "if that's legitmiate then that's terrible"? That's the point.

  Aeonblades

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 1730

1/25/13 11:23:29 AM#30
Let's counter sexism with sexism! YAY! LOGIC!

Currently Playing: ESO,FFXIV, various betas
Have played: You name it.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11822

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

1/25/13 11:24:03 AM#31
Originally posted by Harafnir
If you have a problem with ANY of her points... Then you are one of the guys she is talking about. Just letting you know.

ANY of her points.

There is no middle ground. You are either with us or against us!

 

Just letting you know.

  Derros

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 983

1/25/13 11:24:53 AM#32
Originally posted by Istavaan
[mod edit]

So women are responsible for being treated as second class citizens in some online/geek areas, gaming being one, how so?  By being born?

 

Ah I know the response, ive seen it to many times: "Well if they didnt keep bringing it up, it wouldnt happen! people are reacting! bla bla bla feminist agenda!"

 

yep if we just ignore a problem, it goes right away

  Aeonblades

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 1730

1/25/13 11:24:57 AM#33
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Harafnir
If you have a problem with ANY of her points... Then you are one of the guys she is talking about. Just letting you know.

ANY of her points.

There is no middle ground. You are either with us or against us!

 

Just letting you know.

Better dead than red!

Currently Playing: ESO,FFXIV, various betas
Have played: You name it.

  ScaryMonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/13
Posts: 102

1/25/13 11:31:26 AM#34
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
 

I take slight objection to the conclusions you seem to be drawing about my character in your response.  I am not going to defend myself because frankly the slightly accusatory tone you use is absurd given that you are forming it from a position of complete ignorance about me.    

In response: I am playing a computer game, that is all.  I run around and shoot gremlins or some such nonsense.  What is it that you expect me to be doing other than this to combat an issue I have never even seen occur within my computer game? 

 

ok, great. And I don't know you so you might be a saint. But your, and other, responses are not about "wow, that's terrible that "some" people have to put up with this crap" but more about lashing out in some fashion at the mere mention of it.

yes, you play a computer game and you attack gremlins. Good for you. Me too for that matter. But the same could be said for "hey, I only want to go to the store, pick up my milk and go home. No drama". However, because people are people they bring drama. Some try to minimize and mitigate drama. But I've witnessed both sexual harrassment and just "harassment" in these games AND witnessed people who created drama and then became all "oh my, i'm being harrassed and I never asked for it" when clearly they did.

As a gross side note, I was once in game (lineage 2) and had a female character as an alt. And what happened? Some creep started hitting on me and in a very pathetic and disgusting way. He actually though my character was a female in real life.

Just because you haven't seen this issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Is your reaction going to be "I've never seen it so it doesn't exist period" or is your reaction going to be "if that's legitmiate then that's terrible"? That's the point.

My response would be, its a computer game, it is my downtime.  If I do not like the community for wahtever reason it is no longer escapism and I quit.  

If I see these issues in real life that is an entirely different matter, but I rarely see them in real life; certainly my workplace (its about a 50/50 mix) and the bars I go to afterwards are a little more enlightened than the general portrayal in this article.  

  krant

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/13
Posts: 7

1/25/13 11:35:00 AM#35
Originally posted by Yamota
Putting collective blame and/or punishment on us men is nonsense. I haven't neither seen nor done any of these actions described in this article so I am not going to take any blame for it. I think it is a very small minority which does these things but for some reason it always get blown out of proportion in the media and then somehow tries to wilifies all men.

Yes it is a small minority of men who act out in these ways, but the fact that these men are often supported by others and encouraged by the silence of men who might disagree contributes to the problem.

The article doesn't say that all men act this way, it says that these actions should not be acceptable in our games.

And they shouldn't.  If you have never acted in any of the ways described in the article, congratulations.  Now quit whining about not being recognized for your quiet heroism and go out into the world and tell others that thier behaivior is inappropriate when to do act in ways described in the article.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16937

1/25/13 11:36:25 AM#36
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
 

I take slight objection to the conclusions you seem to be drawing about my character in your response.  I am not going to defend myself because frankly the slightly accusatory tone you use is absurd given that you are forming it from a position of complete ignorance about me.    

In response: I am playing a computer game, that is all.  I run around and shoot gremlins or some such nonsense.  What is it that you expect me to be doing other than this to combat an issue I have never even seen occur within my computer game? 

 

ok, great. And I don't know you so you might be a saint. But your, and other, responses are not about "wow, that's terrible that "some" people have to put up with this crap" but more about lashing out in some fashion at the mere mention of it.

yes, you play a computer game and you attack gremlins. Good for you. Me too for that matter. But the same could be said for "hey, I only want to go to the store, pick up my milk and go home. No drama". However, because people are people they bring drama. Some try to minimize and mitigate drama. But I've witnessed both sexual harrassment and just "harassment" in these games AND witnessed people who created drama and then became all "oh my, i'm being harrassed and I never asked for it" when clearly they did.

As a gross side note, I was once in game (lineage 2) and had a female character as an alt. And what happened? Some creep started hitting on me and in a very pathetic and disgusting way. He actually though my character was a female in real life.

Just because you haven't seen this issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Is your reaction going to be "I've never seen it so it doesn't exist period" or is your reaction going to be "if that's legitmiate then that's terrible"? That's the point.

My response would be, its a computer game, it is my downtime.  If I do not like the community for wahtever reason it is no longer escapism and I quit.  

If I see these issues in real life that is an entirely different matter, but I rarely see them in real life; certainly my workplace (its about a 50/50 mix) and the bars I go to afterwards are a little more enlightened than the general portrayal in this article.  

Yeah but monk, this is real life.

I know that's difficult for some to accept that logging into a computer game is anything other than escapism but humans are humans in any venue they choose to enter.

My circle of friends as well as my job are all above board and above and beyond as far as treating people well. I don't generally see this crap in my immediate circle. I have seen it in game and I have seen it out of game.

I've also seen people create drama and put themselves into the positon of "being a victim". I think they get off on it or need it to define them. I have seen people, and in this case women, walkking down the street and get harassed because they were chesty. And not even wearing revealing clothing.

So again, I believe the issue is recognizing when it's happenign and is a real problem (whether male or female but it seems that women have their own brand of harrassment that they have to deal with) and of course recognizing those who are all about drama.

  JerYnkFan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/06
Posts: 337

1/25/13 11:37:27 AM#37
Wow MMORPG coming out with some real heavy articles lately.  Frankly no one male or female should be subjected to the type of vitrol that is sometimes spewed on the internet.  When Pokket first started writing here some of the comments were WAY out of line regardless of what people thought about her writing style or subject matter.  Thankfully that seems to have calmed down.  I've also been witness to the same type of junk that goes on with my female cosplaying friends.  IMO the internet lets people be complete a**hats without any threat of reprecussion so it's rather easy to all of sudden grow "beer muscles" and play the tough guy.
  nezbel

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/08
Posts: 47

1/25/13 11:39:45 AM#38
Make an XBox Live account with a somewhat girl like username and set your profile info to female. Then go play all the multi-player games you usually do and see what happens when people think your a girl playing the same games you usually do.
  ScaryMonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/13
Posts: 102

1/25/13 11:40:49 AM#39
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by ScaryMonk
 

I take slight objection to the conclusions you seem to be drawing about my character in your response.  I am not going to defend myself because frankly the slightly accusatory tone you use is absurd given that you are forming it from a position of complete ignorance about me.    

In response: I am playing a computer game, that is all.  I run around and shoot gremlins or some such nonsense.  What is it that you expect me to be doing other than this to combat an issue I have never even seen occur within my computer game? 

 

ok, great. And I don't know you so you might be a saint. But your, and other, responses are not about "wow, that's terrible that "some" people have to put up with this crap" but more about lashing out in some fashion at the mere mention of it.

yes, you play a computer game and you attack gremlins. Good for you. Me too for that matter. But the same could be said for "hey, I only want to go to the store, pick up my milk and go home. No drama". However, because people are people they bring drama. Some try to minimize and mitigate drama. But I've witnessed both sexual harrassment and just "harassment" in these games AND witnessed people who created drama and then became all "oh my, i'm being harrassed and I never asked for it" when clearly they did.

As a gross side note, I was once in game (lineage 2) and had a female character as an alt. And what happened? Some creep started hitting on me and in a very pathetic and disgusting way. He actually though my character was a female in real life.

Just because you haven't seen this issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Is your reaction going to be "I've never seen it so it doesn't exist period" or is your reaction going to be "if that's legitmiate then that's terrible"? That's the point.

My response would be, its a computer game, it is my downtime.  If I do not like the community for wahtever reason it is no longer escapism and I quit.  

If I see these issues in real life that is an entirely different matter, but I rarely see them in real life; certainly my workplace (its about a 50/50 mix) and the bars I go to afterwards are a little more enlightened than the general portrayal in this article.  

Yeah but monk, this is real life.

I know that's difficult for some to accept that logging into a computer game is anything other than escapism but humans are humans in any venue they choose to enter.

My circle of friends as well as my job are all above board and above and beyond as far as treating people well. I don't generally see this crap in my immediate circle. I have seen it in game and I have seen it out of game.

I've also seen people create drama and put themselves into the positon of "being a victim". I think they get off on it or need it to define them. I have seen people, and in this case women, walkking down the street and get harassed because they were chesty. And not even wearing revealing clothing.

So again, I believe the issue is recognizing when it's happenign and is a real problem (whether male or female but it seems that women have their own brand of harrassment that they have to deal with) and of course recognizing those who are all about drama.

Yeah but Sov, I have never seen this occur in any computer game I have played.  I have seen all kinds of trolls but I have never been in a position for this to be an issue.  The internet is like the wild west, if you do see it happening by responding you will generally only feed the trolls.  Yes it is wrong, yes it should result in a ban if necessary, I am not in a position to police either of these things in a game, unless I threaten them with my wand of great evocation.  

  FelixMajor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/27/07
Posts: 458

1/25/13 11:43:45 AM#40
I could care less what sex is playing the games I am playing, however if that person happens to be ruining my experience for whatever reason, they can piss off

Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

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