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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Hating the Haters

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286 posts found
  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/23/13 3:59:08 PM#41
Originally posted by Alders

This is a public forum dedicated to every MMO.  If there was no bitching, we wouldn't have active threads.

The "love" is usually religated to the games own forum, along with more bitching of course.

 

My issue is trying to translate an open RPG based on overpowered builds into an MMO.  My spidey sense says something may not go well.

Compared to morrowind, skyrim is very much a themepark

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

1/23/13 4:01:02 PM#42
Originally posted by Yamota
 

Do you even know what blind hatred is? Let me educate you. It means to hate something without knowing anything about it and/or false information about it. I know that ESO will be a ThemePark and I know what a ThemePark formula does to an MMO. More over I know that Skyrim was not a ThemePark style RPG so my hate for it is based on facts.

Now you may believe that the fact that ESO will be a ThemePark is indeed not a fact but I believe it is and there are tons of signs pointing to it. So my hate for ESO is not blind, I dont hate it for no or false reason. I have a clear, specific reason for it and that is that the Skyrim model would have been a stellar and great sandbox MMO.

Instead they scrapped that idea and went ThemePark and, short of the Elder Scrolls skin, I dont see how those two RPGs will have anything to do with each other. It is another example where they (ab)use an excellent IP for a quick cash grab.

which is complete nonsense until we see the final product or at least till open beta

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7197

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/23/13 4:05:38 PM#43
Originally posted by Istavaan
The hate train has well and truly moved from gw2 to TESO, you guys are getting way too predictable. Some people like being miserable, i hope the mods crack down on it because it's making this place a depressing place to visit.

 

The most depressing thing around here, to be fair, is some people continously telling us post after post how depressing it is here...

 

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

1/23/13 4:05:44 PM#44
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

Skyrim was a themepark - just because you could go out and explore does not make it any less themeparky. You can explore in GW2 also - that is how I am leveling one character, just going out ans seeing what is there.

 

You are picking at nits and just throwing out as much non-information as possible to see if it sticks. There are no hard and fast rules so please stop trying to invent them.

 

Let us wait and see what it will be BEFORE bringing on the hate or the hype engine.

You keep repeating that but dont say why. How was Skyrim a ThemePark? The whole world was designed so you did not need to follow it in a linear fashion. You could, if you wanted to, but that is the beauty of open world design, you can do what the hell you want and the world is designed to do just that. That is what defines a virtual world and sandbox and what is contrary to ThemePark designed MMOs which are carefully designed to funnel you from point to point and punish you if you go of that path.

Dragon Age is a perfect example of a ThemePark like RPG where you are meant to follow a linear storyline and it would not make much sense if you did not because the "world" was not designed for it. Now if you dont see the difference between that and Skyrim then you have simply failed to grasp why Skyrim was such a great game.

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

1/23/13 4:06:34 PM#45
Originally posted by Aerowyn

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

Blind Hatred?  The hate it's getting is because they locked races to factions and then limit the area we can explore.  You are the one that sounds blind.  If you can't take a moment to read what people are saying then you shouldn't comment.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

1/23/13 4:07:49 PM#46
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Yamota
 

Do you even know what blind hatred is? Let me educate you. It means to hate something without knowing anything about it and/or false information about it. I know that ESO will be a ThemePark and I know what a ThemePark formula does to an MMO. More over I know that Skyrim was not a ThemePark style RPG so my hate for it is based on facts.

Now you may believe that the fact that ESO will be a ThemePark is indeed not a fact but I believe it is and there are tons of signs pointing to it. So my hate for ESO is not blind, I dont hate it for no or false reason. I have a clear, specific reason for it and that is that the Skyrim model would have been a stellar and great sandbox MMO.

Instead they scrapped that idea and went ThemePark and, short of the Elder Scrolls skin, I dont see how those two RPGs will have anything to do with each other. It is another example where they (ab)use an excellent IP for a quick cash grab.

which is complete nonsense until we see the final product or at least till open beta

No, it is a prediction based on the data we have. In life things are not always handed to you but you have to make assumptions,  predictions and even guess. If you are unable to do that then goodluck getting through life basing everything you do in 100% verifiable evidence.

  Rawiz

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/08
Posts: 472

1/23/13 4:08:56 PM#47
Originally posted by Yamota

Now you may believe that the fact that ESO will be a ThemePark is indeed not a fact but I believe it is and there are tons of signs pointing to it. So my hate for ESO is not blind, I dont hate it for no or false reason. I have a clear, specific reason for it and that is that the Skyrim model would have been a stellar and great sandbox MMO.

Instead they scrapped that idea and went ThemePark and, short of the Elder Scrolls skin, I dont see how those two RPGs will have anything to do with each other. It is another example where they (ab)use an excellent IP for a quick cash grab.

Yep, it's a cash grab, sorry you didn't get a sandbox bro, you really need one it seems.

Personally don't even care if it's a cash grab, last time I spent money on a mmo was 2008. I'll spend some money on this after enjoying games like W.Gretzky Hockey 1-3 (1989-1993 or so), The Terminator, (need I say when?) Fallout 3, Skyrim and so on.

Don't care about the superb sandbox theory either, not one bit

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7250

1/23/13 4:09:08 PM#48
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Istavaan
The hate train has well and truly moved from gw2 to TESO, you guys are getting way too predictable. Some people like being miserable, i hope the mods crack down on it because it's making this place a depressing place to visit.

 

The most depressing thing around here, to be fair, is some people continously telling us post after post how depressing it is here...

 

Remeber there were only a couple people on the GW2 "hate train" to begin with. I think it's fair to say that it was a 70% apporve 30% disapprove beakdown pre-launch. 

 

TESO started the other way around with many more disapprove than approve. 

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/23/13 4:09:54 PM#49
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Aerowyn

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

Blind Hatred?  The hate it's getting is because they locked races to factions and then limit the area we can explore.  You are the one that sounds blind.  If you can't take a moment to read what people are saying then you shouldn't comment.

im pretty sure he said the lower level areas are locked but the game opens up as you gain levels. he even hinted that races from opposing factions can possibly be in the same guild with a *wink* *wink* *nudge* nudge*..basically they are keeping their cards close to their chests and you have very few facts.

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

1/23/13 4:10:06 PM#50
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Aerowyn

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

Blind Hatred?  The hate it's getting is because they locked races to factions and then limit the area we can explore.  You are the one that sounds blind.  If you can't take a moment to read what people are saying then you shouldn't comment.

i have only see that mentioned by a couple people i have seen numerous times people posting they hate this game already because it's branded a themepark.. i highly doubt any of them have played beta tried the game in any fasion or have any experience in it at all so i'd call it pretty blind..

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7197

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/23/13 4:10:11 PM#51
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

Skyrim was a themepark - just because you could go out and explore does not make it any less themeparky. You can explore in GW2 also - that is how I am leveling one character, just going out ans seeing what is there.

 

You are picking at nits and just throwing out as much non-information as possible to see if it sticks. There are no hard and fast rules so please stop trying to invent them.

 

Let us wait and see what it will be BEFORE bringing on the hate or the hype engine.

You keep repeating that but dont say why. How was Skyrim a ThemePark? The whole world was designed so you did not need to follow it in a linear fashion.

 

Because themepark is not define by linear or non linear.

Themepark is defined by offering the player pre made rides (story and dungeons for example) that they can use for enjoyment.

Open themepark vs directed themepark.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

1/23/13 4:11:11 PM#52
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Aerowyn

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

Blind Hatred?  The hate it's getting is because they locked races to factions and then limit the area we can explore.  You are the one that sounds blind.  If you can't take a moment to read what people are saying then you shouldn't comment.

Yep I find that pretty funny. They pretend to be blind from all the info which has been released and then accuse others, who have looked at this info, of being blind.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

1/23/13 4:11:14 PM#53

Blind hatred is unreasonable.

But the hatred surrounding TESO gets less and less blind everyday: people are holding what the devs say and show against them. And as others have said, even the historically over-positive writers here at MMORPG.com have all stated TESO is going to be a more or less typical themepark.

So... what? Criticizing TESO as a themepark is what? Besides true?

ES is a very popular and much beloved RPG IP and many fans of that IP are legitimately complaining that the MMO they are trying to sell is almost nothing like the SPG games that made the IP popular.

Guess what?

Too Bad.

When a developer chooses to use a popular IP, they get the marketing bump from the name recognition, which was the point, but they also get the "baggage" of what that IP brings to the table. And if they deviate too far from being "true" to that IP, then they can pay the penalty for that with the fans.

Which is what is happening here.

TESO will be/is nothing like the SPGs of the ES IP and Zenimax is going to hear about that.

And frankly, that is not unreasonable.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/23/13 4:11:36 PM#54
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Yamota
 

Do you even know what blind hatred is? Let me educate you. It means to hate something without knowing anything about it and/or false information about it. I know that ESO will be a ThemePark and I know what a ThemePark formula does to an MMO. More over I know that Skyrim was not a ThemePark style RPG so my hate for it is based on facts.

Now you may believe that the fact that ESO will be a ThemePark is indeed not a fact but I believe it is and there are tons of signs pointing to it. So my hate for ESO is not blind, I dont hate it for no or false reason. I have a clear, specific reason for it and that is that the Skyrim model would have been a stellar and great sandbox MMO.

Instead they scrapped that idea and went ThemePark and, short of the Elder Scrolls skin, I dont see how those two RPGs will have anything to do with each other. It is another example where they (ab)use an excellent IP for a quick cash grab.

which is complete nonsense until we see the final product or at least till open beta

No, it is a prediction based on the data we have. In life things are not always handed to you but you have to make assumptions,  predictions and even guess. If you are unable to do that then goodluck getting through life basing everything you do in 100% verifiable evidence.

They have data now..you're starting to make it sound like a cult when you keep saying "we".

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/23/13 4:14:29 PM#55
Armchair developers everywhere.
  Fearum

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

1/23/13 4:14:47 PM#56
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by Aerowyn

very much agreed.. the blind hatred over themeparks on these forums is just sad... from all i have read sounds like they have some solid ideas so hopefully it will pan out

Blind Hatred?  The hate it's getting is because they locked races to factions and then limit the area we can explore.  You are the one that sounds blind.  If you can't take a moment to read what people are saying then you shouldn't comment.

You can make 3 different characters and explore everything while also getting 3 different story lines through each faction.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

1/23/13 4:15:12 PM#57
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

Skyrim was a themepark - just because you could go out and explore does not make it any less themeparky. You can explore in GW2 also - that is how I am leveling one character, just going out ans seeing what is there.

 

You are picking at nits and just throwing out as much non-information as possible to see if it sticks. There are no hard and fast rules so please stop trying to invent them.

 

Let us wait and see what it will be BEFORE bringing on the hate or the hype engine.

You keep repeating that but dont say why. How was Skyrim a ThemePark? The whole world was designed so you did not need to follow it in a linear fashion.

 

Because themepark is not define by linear or non linear.

Themepark is defined by offering the player pre made rides (story and dungeons for example) that they can use for enjoyment.

Open themepark vs directed themepark.

A ThemePark is ofcourse not completely linear, just as a real ThemePark. They are all relatively linear because they provide you with rides (as more than one), in specific zones, for specific level brackets and once done you move on to the next ride for the next level bracket. That is what makes it linear and no ThemePark I have ever played did not follow that model.

I heard Secret World might be like that but that would be an exception and I strongly doubt that you can go anywhere you want at any level because it seems to be pretty story based which by definition makes it linear.

Also never heard of the term open themepark, did you just make that up?

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7197

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/23/13 4:16:37 PM#58
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

Skyrim was a themepark - just because you could go out and explore does not make it any less themeparky. You can explore in GW2 also - that is how I am leveling one character, just going out ans seeing what is there.

 

You are picking at nits and just throwing out as much non-information as possible to see if it sticks. There are no hard and fast rules so please stop trying to invent them.

 

Let us wait and see what it will be BEFORE bringing on the hate or the hype engine.

You keep repeating that but dont say why. How was Skyrim a ThemePark? The whole world was designed so you did not need to follow it in a linear fashion.

 

Because themepark is not define by linear or non linear.

Themepark is defined by offering the player pre made rides (story and dungeons for example) that they can use for enjoyment.

Open themepark vs directed themepark.

A ThemePark is ofcourse not completely linear, just as a real ThemePark. They are all relatively linear because they provide you with rides (as more than one), in specific zones, for specific level brackets and once done you move on to the next ride for the next level bracket. That is what makes it linear and no ThemePark I have ever played did not follow that model.

I heard Secret World might be like that but that would be an exception and I strongly doubt that you can go anywhere you want at any level because it seems to be pretty story based which by definition makes it linear.

Also never heard of the term open themepark, did you just make that up?

 

Maaaaybeeeee.... 

 

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

1/23/13 4:17:05 PM#59
Originally posted by Istavaan
Armchair developers everywhere.

 

I don't need to develop an MMO to know crap when I see it.
  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

1/23/13 4:17:23 PM#60
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Yamota

I think even one of the mmorpg staff, who had test-played the game, said it was a ThemePark so I think it is pretty much a sure thing that it is. And an Elder Scrolls game, which are traditionally open ended sandboxy RPGs, contrary to linear story based one's like Dragon Age, being created as a ThemePark deserves to be hated.

It is like taking a piss on your fanbase and creating something completely else.

 

there was never anything sandbox in a MMO kind of way about elder scrolls games. Sandbox for single player games are define by their open world design. Look it up. Nothing to do with player made content. All MMO have open worlds. Adding multiplayer to skyrim or oblivion and you get the same gameplay found in any themepark mmo. There is nothing unique about the elder scrolls gameplay thatsnot found in a themepark

Nonsense. Themepark MMOs do not have open world design, they are clearly designed to funnel you from quest hub to quest hub, level bracketted zone to level bracketted zone and your character is carefully designed to be able to fight the content for that particular level bracket.

Skyrim was not designed like that. There was a story line that you could follow but you could also go out completely on your own and enjoy the game because the world was designed so that you could do that and still enjoy the game. ThemePark games, altough you could do it that way, are not designed as such.

And sandbox MMOs are also not defined by player made content but rather by open world design. However since they are MMOs, player made content is one of the elements typically associated with sandbox MMOs. However a ThemePark could also have it, just look at the STO foundry system, so it is not direcly related to sandbox MMOs.

Skyrim was a themepark - just because you could go out and explore does not make it any less themeparky. You can explore in GW2 also - that is how I am leveling one character, just going out ans seeing what is there.

 

You are picking at nits and just throwing out as much non-information as possible to see if it sticks. There are no hard and fast rules so please stop trying to invent them.

 

Let us wait and see what it will be BEFORE bringing on the hate or the hype engine.

You keep repeating that but dont say why. How was Skyrim a ThemePark? The whole world was designed so you did not need to follow it in a linear fashion.

 

Because themepark is not define by linear or non linear.

Themepark is defined by offering the player pre made rides (story and dungeons for example) that they can use for enjoyment.

Open themepark vs directed themepark.

A ThemePark is ofcourse not completely linear, just as a real ThemePark. They are all relatively linear because they provide you with rides (as more than one), in specific zones, for specific level brackets and once done you move on to the next ride for the next level bracket. That is what makes it linear and no ThemePark I have ever played did not follow that model.

I heard Secret World might be like that but that would be an exception and I strongly doubt that you can go anywhere you want at any level because it seems to be pretty story based which by definition makes it linear.

Also never heard of the term open themepark, did you just make that up?

people make up terms all the time to suit their agenda, i've heard the term sandpark being thrown around a lot lately.

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