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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2: The most influential mmorpg of 2012

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495 posts found
  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 4:52:27 PM#181
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ereyethirn
 

Except the difference here is guild wars 2 doesnt have 10million active players. I don't wanna say too much bad about guild wars 2 because as I said above, it did a good job at delivering a polished experience for casual players, however it isn't nearly as popular as wow so its not gonna have company after company copying them like wow does, and there is very little chance that anyone is actually going to copy many of their features as its just not successful enough to be a good game to base yourselves around.

wow had 10 million subs in NA/EU in 6 months after release?.. wow thats amazing

WoW had subs after release.

El Psy Congroo

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

1/25/13 4:54:41 PM#182
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ereyethirn
 

Except the difference here is guild wars 2 doesnt have 10million active players. I don't wanna say too much bad about guild wars 2 because as I said above, it did a good job at delivering a polished experience for casual players, however it isn't nearly as popular as wow so its not gonna have company after company copying them like wow does, and there is very little chance that anyone is actually going to copy many of their features as its just not successful enough to be a good game to base yourselves around.

wow had 10 million subs in NA/EU in 6 months after release?.. wow thats amazing

WoW had subs after release.

and?

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2860

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

1/25/13 4:56:22 PM#183

People are? Honestly outside making it look different, the game realy has done little in changing how MMos work. The only concept that is 'new'(ish) is perhaps being a bit more 'loose' on just how you can level, though even then its not exactly that varied on how that occurs as you can end up finding LESS options for leveling then you can on other games, it just helps to mitigate the process of 'questing' as you traditionally are use to by throwing in 'static' (yes we know its static, lets not pretend its dynamic) events which, I can sort of see being emphasized more in other games but its no where near new.

 

Call me jaded, but I just don't see anything GW2 did that will really inspire change... unless maybe the B2P model combined with a cash shop that would be normally in a F2P game, raking in even more cash for the developer which can be both a good and a bad thing.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3088

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  1/25/13 4:58:00 PM#184
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
 

yes! And that mod edit removed all of the comments about how it's unfortunate it's not a sandbox, because it would be nice if a sandbox could actually gain that sort of acclaim! :P

 

 

Sandbox Acclaim

If you'd like me to start linking news articles from international sources including BBC about it as well, I'd be happy to do so.  They mostly talk about character interaction, rather than "just pay the box fee" though, so not sure if that's what you want to hear.

Actually, I like to hear things like this and then think to myself about how sometimes it's nice to play a game where you don't have to worry about assholes.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

1/25/13 4:58:31 PM#185
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by boxsnd
Not so fast GW2 fan! If in the near future we see other MMOs adopting things like no trinity, the downed mechanic in PvE and PvP, hearts and dynamic events, overflow servers etc then we might say it's influential. Until then, patience.

I can't see any other game, from last year, that other companies will be influenced by. I am happy that there is no trinity as I am bored to death with that simplified game mechanic. It was used a crutch for too long.

How on earth is all-dps more complex than the trinity? 

It is not ALL DPS and that is where you are having issues.  With all of my characters I do a little but of it all. and you have to in GW2. If you went all DPS, you would besically be dead 95% of the time.

 

The trinity is simple-minded because ALL THE TANK DOES IS - DUH TANK, ETC. It is such a not complex game mechanic and that is why it first came out - it was the simplest type of game mechanic to create.

I find this to be a most ironic reply.

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 5:00:01 PM#186
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ereyethirn
 

Except the difference here is guild wars 2 doesnt have 10million active players. I don't wanna say too much bad about guild wars 2 because as I said above, it did a good job at delivering a polished experience for casual players, however it isn't nearly as popular as wow so its not gonna have company after company copying them like wow does, and there is very little chance that anyone is actually going to copy many of their features as its just not successful enough to be a good game to base yourselves around.

wow had 10 million subs in NA/EU in 6 months after release?.. wow thats amazing

WoW had subs after release.

and?

and it was a silly joke to make.  You know, playing on how GW2 doesn't have subs.  Obviously, but that's the joke here.

In any event, WoW peaked well above 10 million people continuously funding the game through their subscriptions.

How many Guild Wars 2 copies have been bought total - also, is the population of actively playing people increasing, or decreasing?  Not the box sales, but people playing?

In other words, has Guild Wars 2 already peaked in population far below the levels of current WoW after WoW has already seen a massive decline?

El Psy Congroo

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

1/25/13 5:00:26 PM#187
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
 

yes! And that mod edit removed all of the comments about how it's unfortunate it's not a sandbox, because it would be nice if a sandbox could actually gain that sort of acclaim! :P

 

 

Sandbox Acclaim

If you'd like me to start linking news articles from international sources including BBC about it as well, I'd be happy to do so.  They mostly talk about character interaction, rather than "just pay the box fee" though, so not sure if that's what you want to hear.

Actually, I like to hear things like this and then think to myself about how sometimes it's nice to play a game where you don't have to worry about assholes.

i have yet to find that game.. although gw2 has been overall very friendly and the systems in place encourage people to work together not against eachother(outside pvp of course)

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

1/25/13 5:02:51 PM#188
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ereyethirn
 

Except the difference here is guild wars 2 doesnt have 10million active players. I don't wanna say too much bad about guild wars 2 because as I said above, it did a good job at delivering a polished experience for casual players, however it isn't nearly as popular as wow so its not gonna have company after company copying them like wow does, and there is very little chance that anyone is actually going to copy many of their features as its just not successful enough to be a good game to base yourselves around.

wow had 10 million subs in NA/EU in 6 months after release?.. wow thats amazing

WoW had subs after release.

and?

and it was a silly joke to make.  You know, playing on how GW2 doesn't have subs.  Obviously, but that's the joke here.

In any event, WoW peaked well above 10 million people continuously funding the game through their subscriptions.

How many Guild Wars 2 copies have been bought total - also, is the population of actively playing people increasing, or decreasing?  Not the box sales, but people playing?

In other words, has Guild Wars 2 already peaked in population far below the levels of current WoW after WoW has already seen a massive decline?

where'd you dig that up from? x-fire? crystal ball? 1985 delorean?

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 5:04:55 PM#189
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
 

yes! And that mod edit removed all of the comments about how it's unfortunate it's not a sandbox, because it would be nice if a sandbox could actually gain that sort of acclaim! :P

 

 

Sandbox Acclaim

If you'd like me to start linking news articles from international sources including BBC about it as well, I'd be happy to do so.  They mostly talk about character interaction, rather than "just pay the box fee" though, so not sure if that's what you want to hear.

Actually, I like to hear things like this and then think to myself about how sometimes it's nice to play a game where you don't have to worry about assholes.

There are mean people throughout MMORPGs.  Some give players freedom, some give players the same things they've already been given but call it innovative then wonder where they went.  I was going to suggest you try avoiding those annoying mmorpg people by playing something single player...

In any event, I listed an MMORPG that is sandbox and has an impressive amount of acclaim and coverage from a wide variety of places.

Probably best to go back to something you have more experience with - proclaiming Guild Wars 2 as being the best game ever that should be worshipped as our almight Arenanet god-king.  I'll continue to chance this all being an elaborate troll I keep falling for since I can hardly believe people are this serious about game after game being perfection in online game form.

El Psy Congroo

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3088

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  1/25/13 5:04:57 PM#190
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
 

yes! And that mod edit removed all of the comments about how it's unfortunate it's not a sandbox, because it would be nice if a sandbox could actually gain that sort of acclaim! :P

 

 

Sandbox Acclaim

If you'd like me to start linking news articles from international sources including BBC about it as well, I'd be happy to do so.  They mostly talk about character interaction, rather than "just pay the box fee" though, so not sure if that's what you want to hear.

Actually, I like to hear things like this and then think to myself about how sometimes it's nice to play a game where you don't have to worry about assholes.

i have yet to find that game.. although gw2 has been overall very friendly and the systems in place encourage people to work together not against eachother(outside pvp of course)

really? What types of assholes do you worry about it GW2?

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 5:05:56 PM#191
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ereyethirn
 

Except the difference here is guild wars 2 doesnt have 10million active players. I don't wanna say too much bad about guild wars 2 because as I said above, it did a good job at delivering a polished experience for casual players, however it isn't nearly as popular as wow so its not gonna have company after company copying them like wow does, and there is very little chance that anyone is actually going to copy many of their features as its just not successful enough to be a good game to base yourselves around.

wow had 10 million subs in NA/EU in 6 months after release?.. wow thats amazing

WoW had subs after release.

and?

and it was a silly joke to make.  You know, playing on how GW2 doesn't have subs.  Obviously, but that's the joke here.

In any event, WoW peaked well above 10 million people continuously funding the game through their subscriptions.

How many Guild Wars 2 copies have been bought total - also, is the population of actively playing people increasing, or decreasing?  Not the box sales, but people playing?

In other words, has Guild Wars 2 already peaked in population far below the levels of current WoW after WoW has already seen a massive decline?

where'd you dig that up from? x-fire? crystal ball? 1985 delorean?

Sorry, it was a question, which is why I put the question mark at the end.

I was asking about it, not claiming it.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

El Psy Congroo

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

1/25/13 5:07:20 PM#192
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
 

yes! And that mod edit removed all of the comments about how it's unfortunate it's not a sandbox, because it would be nice if a sandbox could actually gain that sort of acclaim! :P

 

 

Sandbox Acclaim

If you'd like me to start linking news articles from international sources including BBC about it as well, I'd be happy to do so.  They mostly talk about character interaction, rather than "just pay the box fee" though, so not sure if that's what you want to hear.

Actually, I like to hear things like this and then think to myself about how sometimes it's nice to play a game where you don't have to worry about assholes.

i have yet to find that game.. although gw2 has been overall very friendly and the systems in place encourage people to work together not against eachother(outside pvp of course)

really? What types of assholes do you worry about it GW2?

had some rage quit in dungeons and some that don't listen when you are trying to help them get through them... dungeons is honestly only part iv'e had issue with a couple people being jerks.. oh wait did have some a**holes in spvp forgot

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 5:07:45 PM#193
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
 

yes! And that mod edit removed all of the comments about how it's unfortunate it's not a sandbox, because it would be nice if a sandbox could actually gain that sort of acclaim! :P

 

 

Sandbox Acclaim

If you'd like me to start linking news articles from international sources including BBC about it as well, I'd be happy to do so.  They mostly talk about character interaction, rather than "just pay the box fee" though, so not sure if that's what you want to hear.

Actually, I like to hear things like this and then think to myself about how sometimes it's nice to play a game where you don't have to worry about assholes.

i have yet to find that game.. although gw2 has been overall very friendly and the systems in place encourage people to work together not against eachother(outside pvp of course)

really? What types of assholes do you worry about it GW2?

There were those who intentionally lagged the game for others by going into high population areas - such as the broker, and casting as many effects as possible at once.  It was coordinated, and a large detriment to the FPS of those in the area.

So yeah, they are in GW2, and GW2 isn't perfection in online game form brought to us by the deities at arenanet.

El Psy Congroo

  Aerowyn

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

1/25/13 5:08:17 PM#194
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ereyethirn
 

Except the difference here is guild wars 2 doesnt have 10million active players. I don't wanna say too much bad about guild wars 2 because as I said above, it did a good job at delivering a polished experience for casual players, however it isn't nearly as popular as wow so its not gonna have company after company copying them like wow does, and there is very little chance that anyone is actually going to copy many of their features as its just not successful enough to be a good game to base yourselves around.

wow had 10 million subs in NA/EU in 6 months after release?.. wow thats amazing

WoW had subs after release.

and?

and it was a silly joke to make.  You know, playing on how GW2 doesn't have subs.  Obviously, but that's the joke here.

In any event, WoW peaked well above 10 million people continuously funding the game through their subscriptions.

How many Guild Wars 2 copies have been bought total - also, is the population of actively playing people increasing, or decreasing?  Not the box sales, but people playing?

In other words, has Guild Wars 2 already peaked in population far below the levels of current WoW after WoW has already seen a massive decline?

where'd you dig that up from? x-fire? crystal ball? 1985 delorean?

Sorry, it was a question, which is why I put the question mark at the end.

I was asking about it, not claiming it.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

punctuation.. such a silly little thing

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  kadepsyson

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/15/06
Posts: 1966

The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

1/25/13 5:10:01 PM#195
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by ereyethirn
 

Except the difference here is guild wars 2 doesnt have 10million active players. I don't wanna say too much bad about guild wars 2 because as I said above, it did a good job at delivering a polished experience for casual players, however it isn't nearly as popular as wow so its not gonna have company after company copying them like wow does, and there is very little chance that anyone is actually going to copy many of their features as its just not successful enough to be a good game to base yourselves around.

wow had 10 million subs in NA/EU in 6 months after release?.. wow thats amazing

WoW had subs after release.

and?

and it was a silly joke to make.  You know, playing on how GW2 doesn't have subs.  Obviously, but that's the joke here.

In any event, WoW peaked well above 10 million people continuously funding the game through their subscriptions.

How many Guild Wars 2 copies have been bought total - also, is the population of actively playing people increasing, or decreasing?  Not the box sales, but people playing?

In other words, has Guild Wars 2 already peaked in population far below the levels of current WoW after WoW has already seen a massive decline?

where'd you dig that up from? x-fire? crystal ball? 1985 delorean?

Sorry, it was a question, which is why I put the question mark at the end.

I was asking about it, not claiming it.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

punctuation.. such a silly little thing

Yeah, they help.

El Psy Congroo

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3344

1/25/13 5:12:30 PM#196
To answer Op post and to support position that gw2 is the most influential mmorg in 2012, you can ask the question, if not gw2 what was the most influential? It's not wow, that's more of the same, it's not swtor, it's not the myriad of other mmorgs in 2012. Ofc it is GW2. Reasoning, it is that it offers something different, that is viable, cheap and quality.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  Ginaz

Elite Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 1711

1/25/13 7:25:42 PM#197
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by boxsnd
Not so fast GW2 fan! If in the near future we see other MMOs adopting things like no trinity, the downed mechanic in PvE and PvP, hearts and dynamic events, overflow servers etc then we might say it's influential. Until then, patience.

I can't see any other game, from last year, that other companies will be influenced by. I am happy that there is no trinity as I am bored to death with that simplified game mechanic. It was used a crutch for too long.

How on earth is all-dps more complex than the trinity? 

It is not ALL DPS and that is where you are having issues.  With all of my characters I do a little but of it all. and you have to in GW2. If you went all DPS, you would besically be dead 95% of the time.

 

The trinity is simple-minded because ALL THE TANK DOES IS - DUH TANK, ETC. It is such a not complex game mechanic and that is why it first came out - it was the simplest type of game mechanic to create.

Good lord.  I'm tired of GW2 fans calling other game systems, and by extension the people that play and enjoy them, simple minded.  They seem to think that if we don't appreciate all the awesome greatness that is GW2 that somehow we're stupid or we "just don't get it".  Its insulting and annoying.  Stop it.

Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?

Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3088

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  1/25/13 9:55:26 PM#198
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by eyelolled
 

yes! And that mod edit removed all of the comments about how it's unfortunate it's not a sandbox, because it would be nice if a sandbox could actually gain that sort of acclaim! :P

 

 

Sandbox Acclaim

If you'd like me to start linking news articles from international sources including BBC about it as well, I'd be happy to do so.  They mostly talk about character interaction, rather than "just pay the box fee" though, so not sure if that's what you want to hear.

Actually, I like to hear things like this and then think to myself about how sometimes it's nice to play a game where you don't have to worry about assholes.

i have yet to find that game.. although gw2 has been overall very friendly and the systems in place encourage people to work together not against eachother(outside pvp of course)

really? What types of assholes do you worry about it GW2?

There were those who intentionally lagged the game for others by going into high population areas - such as the broker, and casting as many effects as possible at once.  It was coordinated, and a large detriment to the FPS of those in the area.

So yeah, they are in GW2, and GW2 isn't perfection in online game form brought to us by the deities at arenanet.

LOL!!!!!!

Are you kidding me!!!  Did you actually try to use intentional lagging in a city area (you know the kind of place you can't even fight anything!)  when you are advocating a game that has condoned the use of ponzi schemes amongst it's players !?!

LOL

yeah, congrats on all your player interaction, and my sincerest apologies to those who might have accidently bought the wrong kind of dye due to lag caused by some terrible human beings.

 

EDIT: If your intent was just to get me laughing, I'm sorry for the sarcasm, because it honestly brought tears to my eyes.  And thank you.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  User Deleted
1/25/13 9:58:02 PM#199
Originally posted by boxsnd
Not so fast GW2 fan! If in the near future we see other MMOs adopting things like no trinity, the downed mechanic in PvE and PvP, hearts and dynamic events, overflow servers etc then we might say it's influential. Until then, patience.

 Other games have already adopted open tapping and non-contested nodes, I'm sure it won't be long before other features are adopted.

  User Deleted
1/25/13 10:04:51 PM#200
Originally posted by Ginaz
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by boxsnd
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by boxsnd
Not so fast GW2 fan! If in the near future we see other MMOs adopting things like no trinity, the downed mechanic in PvE and PvP, hearts and dynamic events, overflow servers etc then we might say it's influential. Until then, patience.

I can't see any other game, from last year, that other companies will be influenced by. I am happy that there is no trinity as I am bored to death with that simplified game mechanic. It was used a crutch for too long.

How on earth is all-dps more complex than the trinity? 

It is not ALL DPS and that is where you are having issues.  With all of my characters I do a little but of it all. and you have to in GW2. If you went all DPS, you would besically be dead 95% of the time.

 

The trinity is simple-minded because ALL THE TANK DOES IS - DUH TANK, ETC. It is such a not complex game mechanic and that is why it first came out - it was the simplest type of game mechanic to create.

Good lord.  I'm tired of GW2 fans calling other game systems, and by extension the people that play and enjoy them, simple minded.  They seem to think that if we don't appreciate all the awesome greatness that is GW2 that somehow we're stupid or we "just don't get it".  Its insulting and annoying.  Stop it.

 Comparitively the system is simpler, he isnt saying people playing trinity games are simpler, just that the system is.

Without the trinity, everyone needs to work as a team to be successful. Everyone has to defend other group members, everyone has to take turns of drawing the mobs ire, everyone has to contribute to damage (or just res zerg - which they are removing, and isnt the intentional way to play).

With the trinity if someone dies, its the healers fault for not healing, or the tanks fault for not holding aggro. Thats as complicated as it gets. Tanks taunt, healers heal, dps deal damage. Sure you can throw in some utility who buff, but that doesnt make it overly complicated.  

I appreciate that some people prefer to play the trinity, that they feel special for being the person that keeps other people alive, or holds aggro against high dps. My friend refuses to play any games where he cant be a healer because that is the role he likes. But lets call a spade a spade, trinity makes the game a lot simpler.

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