Originally posted by Icewhite

At this point, it's pretty clear that a lot of people are more worried about their "cred" (which bet did they place, how can I be sure my ass is covered, I was right all along [insert statistics]) than ever had any concern about or interest in the game itself.

Forum cred. Is anything else quite so useless guarded with so much passion?

Forum psychology.

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by DKLond

Since I like to be fair, I feel I should admit I was wrong about GW2 and the level of success it would enjoy.

I honestly expected the game would be all but dead ~3-4 months post release in terms of player activity and forum interest. I thought most people would be fed up with it - and I expected it to be much less of a success than it seems to have become. Now, I never expected failure - definitely not, but I thought it would be facing a widespread and heavy backlash right around now.

I'm not personally into the game - and I have a lot of bad things I could say about it, but I will spare you the negativity in this thread. It seems my tastes are, indeed, merely my tastes - and they obviously don't apply to as many people as I expected.

All I can say is that I was wrong - and I'm happy that so many people are enjoying a new and shiny MMO, even months after release. I'm sure we'd all love to have that feeling - and I'm envious of it.

Anyway, congratulations to ANet and the people playing GW2!

 It probably only has about 500K-800K players actively playing. That is a success but far from what most thought. It sold 3Million and only retained a 3rd of its client base so to me that = failure.

Is there some way to tell how many active players are playing? Also since there is no sub how can they retain anything? People come and go...I know personally once I hit 80 i started taking a super casual approach to the game. Am I counted as retained because I only play every so often?

Originally posted by dimnikar.

If it's a sucess in terms of being a good game for *US* is much easier to figure out,

But...so many want to elect thermselves to speak for this dubious "US". And they all say different things.

Originally posted by nukempro

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by DKLond

Since I like to be fair, I feel I should admit I was wrong about GW2 and the level of success it would enjoy.

I honestly expected the game would be all but dead ~3-4 months post release in terms of player activity and forum interest. I thought most people would be fed up with it - and I expected it to be much less of a success than it seems to have become. Now, I never expected failure - definitely not, but I thought it would be facing a widespread and heavy backlash right around now.

I'm not personally into the game - and I have a lot of bad things I could say about it, but I will spare you the negativity in this thread. It seems my tastes are, indeed, merely my tastes - and they obviously don't apply to as many people as I expected.

All I can say is that I was wrong - and I'm happy that so many people are enjoying a new and shiny MMO, even months after release. I'm sure we'd all love to have that feeling - and I'm envious of it.

Anyway, congratulations to ANet and the people playing GW2!

 It probably only has about 500K-800K players actively playing. That is a success but far from what most thought. It sold 3Million and only retained a 3rd of its client base so to me that = failure.

Is there some way to tell how many active players are playing? Also since there is no sub how can they retain anything? People come and go...I know personally once I hit 80 i started taking a super casual approach to the game. Am I counted as retained because I only play every so often?

I think the most telling number in GW2 is the amount of Spvp servers running. It may be the only number with players listed.

Launch week there where 260-300 severs every single day. If you log in prime time tonight you wont see more than 20-28 full Spvp severs. 

Now I don't know what portion of the population people who do Spvp represents, but it does represent and percent, also remeber GW2 was highly touted as a game for pvprs. I wont say a pvp game, but if you were a pvpr around launch time you bought the game.

Originally posted by Torgrim

I'm not sure how easy it is to show how many actual play GW2.

As a sub game It's pretty easy just count active subs but with GW2 B2P model is hard to get a clear reading, what they have to do basicly is manual count logins for let say a month, some weeks/weekends have more logins than others so you have to make a educated guess to see how many of those 3+ mill still play on a regular basis.

 

 

  Preposterous!!! We all know that they are not releasing activity levels because they have a lot to hide.....

The problem is that everytime Game X's successs levels get discussed there are as many ideas of what success means as there are opinions on the topic. Game sold a nice number of box sales which some can agree is what matters so in that it would be a success. The activity level on these forums is there like the OP stated. Retention matters more in a sub game but since they probably don't rely on it the same as a sub then can we say it fails there? Even though we don't know the activity levels. Less people has made the games DE's a lot more fun for me so less people is a success in itself as far as I am concerned ont hat topic. Now the game has some glaring flaws and I hope anet addresses them, but I wouldn't argue that the game was unsuccessful. I am glad the OP decided to speak up although I never would have held it against him had he not.

For a couple of month's enjoyment...akin to what I would find in an average video game, it was successful to me.

But as  an MMORPG, it was a dismal failure for me.   Just didn't offer the depth nor longevity I am hoping for with these games.  Now, that wouldn't be such an issue in itself.  But paired with the blatant overhyping of the company and it's fanbase, it become one.

I initially didn't expect much from the game...maybe a week or two of fun, but it lasted longer so I was pleased.  I did find it annoying being told during prelaunch how closeminded I was for saying this....and equally annoying were the ridiculous platitudes being associated with the game.

In the end, it was a rather forgettable title.  Fun for a moment in time, but thats about it.

I'd say it was a massive success.  I'm not sure what others were expecting, the next WoW killer prehaps?  Still, I'd wager it has more active players than all but a few of the highly successful casual F2P games and WoW, or in other words second highest active player based of a game you have to buy to play.

It's pretty obvious it's trouncing SW:TOR and TSW in active players.  Probably has more than both combined.  It definitely seems to be making money for NCSoft and I know there are some heavy cash shop spenders (whales) in game.

What counts as a success for most people nowadays?  What counts as a "massive" success?

I got my moneys worth out of the game. So did a lot of people. Its a sucess for me.

Im still waiting for the next game. GW2 just only held my interest for over 500 hours! How does this not become a sucess?

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by nukempro

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by DKLond

Since I like to be fair, I feel I should admit I was wrong about GW2 and the level of success it would enjoy.

I honestly expected the game would be all but dead ~3-4 months post release in terms of player activity and forum interest. I thought most people would be fed up with it - and I expected it to be much less of a success than it seems to have become. Now, I never expected failure - definitely not, but I thought it would be facing a widespread and heavy backlash right around now.

I'm not personally into the game - and I have a lot of bad things I could say about it, but I will spare you the negativity in this thread. It seems my tastes are, indeed, merely my tastes - and they obviously don't apply to as many people as I expected.

All I can say is that I was wrong - and I'm happy that so many people are enjoying a new and shiny MMO, even months after release. I'm sure we'd all love to have that feeling - and I'm envious of it.

Anyway, congratulations to ANet and the people playing GW2!

 It probably only has about 500K-800K players actively playing. That is a success but far from what most thought. It sold 3Million and only retained a 3rd of its client base so to me that = failure.

Is there some way to tell how many active players are playing? Also since there is no sub how can they retain anything? People come and go...I know personally once I hit 80 i started taking a super casual approach to the game. Am I counted as retained because I only play every so often?

I think the most telling number in GW2 is the amount of Spvp servers running. It may be the only number with players listed.

 

Launch week there where 260-300 severs every single day. If you log in prime time tonight you wont see more than 20-28 full Spvp severs. 

 

Now I don't know what portion of the population people who do Spvp represents, but it does represent and percent, also remeber GW2 was highly touted as a game for pvprs. I wont say a pvp game, but if you were a pvpr around launch time you bought the game.

GW2census always maintained 15% pvp focus(35%pve, 50% balanced) among those polled. reddit polls were more skewed since they were just pve and pvp. 80% pve focus. 

Originally posted by grimal

For a couple of month's enjoyment...akin to what I would find in an average video game, it was successful to me.

But as  an MMORPG, it was a dismal failure for me.   Just didn't offer the depth nor longevity I am hoping for with these games.  Now, that wouldn't be such an issue in itself.  But paired with the blatant overhyping of the company and it's fanbase, it become one.

I initially didn't expect much from the game...maybe a week or two of fun, but it lasted longer so I was pleased.  I did find it annoying being told during prelaunch how closeminded I was for saying this....and equally annoying were the ridiculous platitudes being associated with the game.

In the end, it was a rather forgettable title.  Fun for a moment in time, but thats about it.

Bingo. If in terms of an MMO that should give longevity, it was a major unsuccessful game for me. Others seem to play it alot more. It, to me was the biggest dissapointment in games in a long while, for what it was supposed to be. I went into GW2 as it will be a great second game, to fall back onto when I need a break from my main game, it couldn t even do that for me. Not saying others won t, just for me it failed miserably.

For me and after 4 months im enjoiyng the game  (i pass my time 75% in WxWxW), i made new friends in game, and WxWxW even with some big issues (such as mass culling), its the best i ever played.

The future shines cause anet already told it will improve WxWxW, and overall ingame features, can't wait for improvment in WxWxW!

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by dimnikar.

If it's a sucess in terms of being a good game for *US* is much easier to figure out,

But...so many want to elect thermselves to speak for this dubious "US". And they all say different things.

Exactly.  Proves my earlier point that success is subjective thus you cannot debate what it is/means to someone else.  If you feel GW2 is a success and someone else feels (read: feels) it is a failure - you cannot argue who is right.  Nor can we speak for other people.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by nukempro

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by DKLond

Since I like to be fair, I feel I should admit I was wrong about GW2 and the level of success it would enjoy.

I honestly expected the game would be all but dead ~3-4 months post release in terms of player activity and forum interest. I thought most people would be fed up with it - and I expected it to be much less of a success than it seems to have become. Now, I never expected failure - definitely not, but I thought it would be facing a widespread and heavy backlash right around now.

I'm not personally into the game - and I have a lot of bad things I could say about it, but I will spare you the negativity in this thread. It seems my tastes are, indeed, merely my tastes - and they obviously don't apply to as many people as I expected.

All I can say is that I was wrong - and I'm happy that so many people are enjoying a new and shiny MMO, even months after release. I'm sure we'd all love to have that feeling - and I'm envious of it.

Anyway, congratulations to ANet and the people playing GW2!

 It probably only has about 500K-800K players actively playing. That is a success but far from what most thought. It sold 3Million and only retained a 3rd of its client base so to me that = failure.

Is there some way to tell how many active players are playing? Also since there is no sub how can they retain anything? People come and go...I know personally once I hit 80 i started taking a super casual approach to the game. Am I counted as retained because I only play every so often?

I think the most telling number in GW2 is the amount of Spvp servers running. It may be the only number with players listed.

 

Launch week there where 260-300 severs every single day. If you log in prime time tonight you wont see more than 20-28 full Spvp severs. 

 

Now I don't know what portion of the population people who do Spvp represents, but it does represent and percent, also remeber GW2 was highly touted as a game for pvprs. I wont say a pvp game, but if you were a pvpr around launch time you bought the game.

BC, why do you like to post arguments you know the answer to? Of course there won't be that many as in the opening week when EVERYONE is playing. BTW I don't agree with those numbers, but the point is that there where more at launch than there are now. Well DUH!

The current numbers are very healthy. I also believe that as changes keep rolling in they will grow exponentially. GW2 has the spvp potential, it just needs the time for the system to take it's course. Unlike other games the ground work is there, they just need to add on top of it.

Eh for me I figured it would do okay though if your looking at hype, yes its a failure but virtually any MMO would be that is released today. Over-all its doing alright. Its not glorious by far but still its not doing to bad at all. Its retained a decent size of its player base (even if 3/4ths of the player base would of quit it would still be fine, particularly with box sales as a benefit) and it is at least doing active updates, mostly for holiday things and events but still it does give something fresh.

As much as I feel GW2 was a pretty big disapointment (not even buying into the hype which says a lot for me in disliking a game) I'd have to wish them luck. Hopefully they fix out their issues and get the game up and running without having to much problems in keeping a steady player base. It might be low on my list of MMos I'd play again, but it doesn't mean that it should be thrown out either. As long as players out there enjoy a game, there is no reason to want it to die and I hope those people can enjoy GW2 for some time.

I was wrong about Gw2 too.

I was excited and played it for about 30 levels and quit, thinking it just wasn't good enough.

Finally gave it a real chance and went to 80, got some exotics, did some dungeons, had fun and now I love it. I was wrong, GW2 is a blast.

I will still say that the personal story sucks until level 70, just a bunch of silly running around doing stuff. But it gets really epic and the last part (Arah 5-man dungeon) is epic. It was worth the temporary carpal tunnel endured from that dungeon.

Originally posted by Torgrim

I'm not sure how easy it is to show how many actual play GW2.

As a sub game It's pretty easy just count active subs but with GW2 B2P model is hard to get a clear reading, what they have to do basicly is manual count logins for let say a month, some weeks/weekends have more logins than others so you have to make a educated guess to see how many of those 3+ mill still play on a regular basis.

 

 

In subgames the number of subs doesn't represent the amount of active players either. I know a lot of people who are still subscribed to games they haven't logged in to for a year other than the occasional half hour to chat with old friends. Then there's multiboxers having multiple accounts and let's not forget the gold sellers.

Even in a subgame you can only count unique logins, define a frequency of logging in to be counted as active and filter out all multiboxers which can't be done by IP only because there's households / institutions / shared houses with multiple actual persons playing the game on the same connection.

Of course the amount of subs defines the income, but not the profit. A game with a huge playerbase can still make less profit than a smaller game both relative and absolute numbers. So that still doesn't say too much about the rate of success, even if you would only measure success in the ability to keep the game going thanks to a sound profit.

Originally posted by dimnikar

Originally posted by Marcus-

Originally posted by dimnikar

Originally posted by Grotar89

GW2 is amssive sucess and will only continue to grow, guess haters will always find some reason  to hate it.

I feel sry for them they are wasting their time and energy on bashing the game since they dont have any game to play.

 

I actively point out GW2s faults (i.e., bashing), yet have TONS upon TONS of games to play. That's just so odd, right?

 

ONTOPIC: I'd like to point out that while GW2 is a success on PC box sales wise for sure, determining whether it's a MMO success will only be possible if they release active user numbers (which won't happen, I assure you).

We will know if it's a MMO success when the 1st expansion hits, and even then only if they release sales numbers for the expansion (NOTE: they never did for GW1 expansions, altough part of that was due to the strange bundling they did back then).

What defines an MMO success? How many boxes must be sold that folks would actually say "success"?

 

3 million?  Or does it need to go up to 4 million expansion "boxes" sold? Is it possible to sell 2 million boxes, and then have enough income through the BLT to support the game and future expansions?  Can a an MMO have 400k active players and make enough money to be a success?  Or is there some arbitrary number it must have that the MMO community has deemed acceptable?

I apologize, I assumed everyone on these forums knew what constitutes a successful MMO. It's not boxes sold; we've seen enough evidence of that through "record breaking" sales of WAR, SWTOR and some others. Unless that was the business plan and they developed a bunch of patches in advance (think on-disc DLC, Capcom style).

But let me explain; for it to be a financial success for the publisher/developer, it needs to meet projected profits. In case of an MMO, in-house expetations extend beyond initial box sales, usually through implementation of subs, cash shops, or a combination thereof. We rarely - if ever, know if a game was a financial success; we usually aren't given the numbers (invesment, projected profits, etc). We speculate based on server merges, conversions to different business models, etc.

If it's a sucess in terms of being a good game for *US* is much easier to figure out, however, and depends fully on player retention. Having it be a financial success is a prerequisite - or else the game goes into "maintenance mode" of infrequent updates and "bare essentials" upkeep. You can notice players leaving easily enough by encountering ghost servers and through declining active user numbers.

With GW2s B2P model, the second kind of success will only be accurately known if they release expansion sales separately (as opposed to what they did with GW1).

I hope we're on the same page now.

 

 

No, not really...  according to you we will know when the expansion is released if it is a "success", if we get the numbers, yes??

So I'm still curious, how many numbers they have to sell with the first expansion to be considered an MMO success? And where did this number get formulated?

Also, whos' *US*?

Originally posted by DKLond

Since I like to be fair, I feel I should admit I was wrong about GW2 and the level of success it would enjoy.

I honestly expected the game would be all but dead ~3-4 months post release in terms of player activity and forum interest. I thought most people would be fed up with it - and I expected it to be much less of a success than it seems to have become. Now, I never expected failure - definitely not, but I thought it would be facing a widespread and heavy backlash right around now.

I'm not personally into the game - and I have a lot of bad things I could say about it, but I will spare you the negativity in this thread. It seems my tastes are, indeed, merely my tastes - and they obviously don't apply to as many people as I expected.

All I can say is that I was wrong - and I'm happy that so many people are enjoying a new and shiny MMO, even months after release. I'm sure we'd all love to have that feeling - and I'm envious of it.

Anyway, congratulations to ANet and the people playing GW2!

Most people tend to believe something similar is very subjective on the matter.