Originally posted by Sovrath

Jason Appleton: Who knows? Look, I just call things how I see them and I don't tend to pull punches. People think that because you are a developer that you have to act like a priest. I'm not a priest. I'm an indie game developer and I speak my mind.

 

I would say that you have to act professionally as it's a company, possibly one with investors who want to see their money in good hands and they are there to ultimately sell a product and make their customers confident in the product and creators.

Not to mention.you want to always put on a good face. We have to do this in interviews, with clients, maybe meeting our new relationship's parents, etc.

It's part of making first and lasting impressions.

If I was an employer and I  found his remarks, I wouldn't hire him.

I don't see being "an indy" developer as a free pass to act like a hurt kid. Then again, I have worked in a lot of professional ciurcumstances and I'm a bit older so maybe that's just me.

 Exactly, another reason I believe greed monger is a money grab.

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by Sovrath

Jason Appleton: Who knows? Look, I just call things how I see them and I don't tend to pull punches. People think that because you are a developer that you have to act like a priest. I'm not a priest. I'm an indie game developer and I speak my mind.

 

I would say that you have to act professionally as it's a company, possibly one with investors who want to see their money in good hands and they are there to ultimately sell a product and make their customers confident in the product and creators.

Not to mention.you want to always put on a good face. We have to do this in interviews, with clients, maybe meeting our new relationship's parents, etc.

It's part of making first and lasting impressions.

If I was an employer and I  found his remarks, I wouldn't hire him.

I don't see being "an indy" developer as a free pass to act like a hurt kid. Then again, I have worked in a lot of professional ciurcumstances and I'm a bit older so maybe that's just me.

 Exactly, another reason I believe greed monger is a money grab.

If it's a money grab it's a really bad one, as the guys running this grab should have blown town with the KS money a long time ago.

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by Sovrath

Jason Appleton: Who knows? Look, I just call things how I see them and I don't tend to pull punches. People think that because you are a developer that you have to act like a priest. I'm not a priest. I'm an indie game developer and I speak my mind.

 

I would say that you have to act professionally as it's a company, possibly one with investors who want to see their money in good hands and they are there to ultimately sell a product and make their customers confident in the product and creators.

Not to mention.you want to always put on a good face. We have to do this in interviews, with clients, maybe meeting our new relationship's parents, etc.

It's part of making first and lasting impressions.

If I was an employer and I  found his remarks, I wouldn't hire him.

I don't see being "an indy" developer as a free pass to act like a hurt kid. Then again, I have worked in a lot of professional ciurcumstances and I'm a bit older so maybe that's just me.

 Exactly, another reason I believe greed monger is a money grab.

 

If it's a money grab it's a really bad one, as the guys running this grab should have blown town with the KS money a long time ago.

 

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by Sovrath

Jason Appleton: Who knows? Look, I just call things how I see them and I don't tend to pull punches. People think that because you are a developer that you have to act like a priest. I'm not a priest. I'm an indie game developer and I speak my mind.

 

I would say that you have to act professionally as it's a company, possibly one with investors who want to see their money in good hands and they are there to ultimately sell a product and make their customers confident in the product and creators.

Not to mention.you want to always put on a good face. We have to do this in interviews, with clients, maybe meeting our new relationship's parents, etc.

It's part of making first and lasting impressions.

If I was an employer and I  found his remarks, I wouldn't hire him.

I don't see being "an indy" developer as a free pass to act like a hurt kid. Then again, I have worked in a lot of professional ciurcumstances and I'm a bit older so maybe that's just me.

 Exactly, another reason I believe greed monger is a money grab.

 

If it's a money grab it's a really bad one, as the guys running this grab should have blown town with the KS money a long time ago.

 

We don't know where they spent the money so I will hold judgement on that until we get more deets.

Well you obviously didn't get my point, so I'll try again:

If it was a scam or a money grab, the guys would be gone, poof. They would not be writing on forums or whatnot, leaving traceable evidence of themselves.

Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Welp. If you gave this guy your money; Boy do I have a deal for you! Ever seen a bridge for sale?

I'll rather give my money for this game than whatever WoW clone themepark lobby-crap comes out next. If this game is never released, I would still be in the same situation - with only 100% shit MMOs to play, or nothing at all.

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by Sovrath

Jason Appleton: Who knows? Look, I just call things how I see them and I don't tend to pull punches. People think that because you are a developer that you have to act like a priest. I'm not a priest. I'm an indie game developer and I speak my mind.

 

I would say that you have to act professionally as it's a company, possibly one with investors who want to see their money in good hands and they are there to ultimately sell a product and make their customers confident in the product and creators.

Not to mention.you want to always put on a good face. We have to do this in interviews, with clients, maybe meeting our new relationship's parents, etc.

It's part of making first and lasting impressions.

If I was an employer and I  found his remarks, I wouldn't hire him.

I don't see being "an indy" developer as a free pass to act like a hurt kid. Then again, I have worked in a lot of professional ciurcumstances and I'm a bit older so maybe that's just me.

 Exactly, another reason I believe greed monger is a money grab.

 

If it's a money grab it's a really bad one, as the guys running this grab should have blown town with the KS money a long time ago.

 

We don't know where they spent the money so I will hold judgement on that until we get more deets.

Well you obviously didn't get my point, so I'll try again:

If it was a scam or a money grab, the guys would be gone, poof. They would not be writing on forums or whatnot, leaving traceable evidence of themselves.

 They don't need to disapear, its not illegal if they cancel thier product and then in turn keep all the monies if they set it up right. Lrn2bigbusiness.

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Welp. If you gave this guy your money; Boy do I have a deal for you! Ever seen a bridge for sale?

I'll rather give my money for this game than whatever WoW clone themepark lobby-crap comes out next. If this game is never released, I would still be in the same situation - with only 100% shit MMOs to play, or nothing at all.

 

This is typical desperate and hard up sandbox gamers.

These are the kind of people that harm the MMO for us cos they keep rally for bad games and bad devs.

You just cannot just say no.

The sandbox games will never get better because of this typical mindset.

We as gamers need to have some high standard of QA in gaming.

Say "NO" to Devs write up. They need to show us gameplay videos.

Im not a backer of this game at all as i didnt like some of their ideas.. but i find it disgusting how people post on forums (not just here) rippnig into someone with personal attacks and so on..

but i guess thats the internet for you, some people have nothing else to do.

Originally posted by Gwahlur

Originally posted by BadSpock

It's called "being a legitimate business person/company."

How do you expect people to think you'll release a quality product worth their hard earned money if you can't at least fake a presentable face to the consumer?

Being an "indie" doesn't give you the right to be a douche.

 

And if people are being douches towards you and attacking you personally, not as a business person or company, you're not allowed to react as a human and not as a company?

  Rules Of Conduct

These apply to all members. If you're posting here, you're agreeing to these, so in such a case, reporting the posts would be the thing to do, not respond to them. 

Originally posted by xmenty

Originally posted by tom_gore

Originally posted by 3-4thElf
Welp. If you gave this guy your money; Boy do I have a deal for you! Ever seen a bridge for sale?

I'll rather give my money for this game than whatever WoW clone themepark lobby-crap comes out next. If this game is never released, I would still be in the same situation - with only 100% shit MMOs to play, or nothing at all.

 

This is typical desperate and hard up sandbox gamers.

You are one of those people that contribute to rally for bad games and bad dev cos you cannot just say no.

The sandbox games will never get better because of your kind of attitude.

You need to have some high standard in gaming and say no to sweet write up without even seeing any gameplay.

 

I'm sorry, but I have tried that tactic for about 10 years now and it's not working. All we get is more gear treadmill bullcrap themepark games over and over and over again.

I'm pretty convinced by now that us "hardcore" sandbox gamers are not going to see another "AAA" sandbox title ever again, because that's not what the masses want. I want it, though, and if it means I'll have to chalk it up being an indie title, so be it. Indie titles have the potential to grow over time into a great game (Minecraft, EVE Online).

So no. I'm done giving my money to WoW clones and games that claim they're not WoW clones but in reality are WoW clones. I'm also done waiting for the AAA sandbox title to just drop out of the sky and putting my money where my mouth is. I've now backed both Greed Monger and Pathfinder. If both of those fail, I'll back the next one and then the next one until one dev gets it right or until they stop trying.

If this costs me around 60-100 bucks a year it's money well spent, because I've got something to look forward, even if it's going to lead to disappointment.

"People think that because you are a developer that you have to act like a priest. I'm not a priest. I'm an indie game developer and I speak my mind."

It's about time one of these developers explained their mind, and what's going on.  A lot of people simply do NOT understand that these people are making these things to not only make a living from them, but to make something with integrity, that THEY want to play in.  Yet, they receive a ton of guff from people who simply don't know, or who know but refuse to understand, and they're not the ones making the game.  It's not YOUR game just because you subscribe to a forum somewhere and intend to spend some money and then, when you get pissed off because things aren't going to YOUR plan, you start griping and complaining because you're the forum ranger.

For my part, had I won the lawsuit I was prosecuting, I was going to put together a company -I am a businessman, as well as both a computer and tabletop gamer- and work toward building a MMORPG, but I was gonna be damned twice if I was going to open forums or let anyone know what was going on until we were ready for Closed Beta.  I'm of the mind of Field of Dreams, "If you build it, they will come", and I wouldn't let anyone know a damn thing until it was ready for Closed Beta.  Like Mr. Appleton, I have a very difficult time NOT feeding the trolls, and I don't see the need to hire a community manager/team until it's time for the community to be available.  It's my vision, not yours, and you don't deserve to know anything about it until it's done, period.

I've often thought those who open forums for MMORPG gamers deserve the trouble they are bringing on themselves, and this was a prime example of it.  Single-player game developers don't do this for the community that will, inevitably be built around their game, and there's not one reason to do it for MMORPG game developers.

'Nuff said.

[quote][i]Originally posted by Tithenon[/i]

[b]"People think that because you are a developer that you have to act like a priest. I'm not a priest. I'm an indie game developer and I speak my mind."

It's about time one of these developers explained their mind, and what's going on.  A lot of people simply do NOT understand that these people are making these things to not only make a living from them, but to make something with integrity, that THEY want to play in.  Yet, they receive a ton of guff from people who simply don't know, or who know but refuse to understand, and they're not the ones making the game.  It's not YOUR game just because you subscribe to a forum somewhere and intend to spend some money and then, when you get pissed off because things aren't going to YOUR plan, you start griping and complaining because you're the forum ranger.[/b][/quote]

As someone who has loosely followed this, I'll say simply that speaking your mind is one thing, and I dont think most people begrudge or object to that. Where it becomes an issue, is where someone who is presenting themselves as a professional chooses to act not very professionally. There is a reason developers bite their tongues, and often dont say what they would like, and that goes for most business professionals as well. You carry yourself as a professional, period. 

If you think that the behavior was professional, so be it, my personal opinion is that it could have been handled in a much better manner. It's the old saying, "Dont argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level, and beat you with experience." Someone got baited, and I dont see how you can spin it as a positive.

Just my 2 cents though.

Originally posted by Tithenon

For my part, had I won the lawsuit I was prosecuting, I was going to put together a company -I am a businessman, as well as both a computer and tabletop gamer- and work toward building a MMORPG, but I was gonna be damned twice if I was going to open forums or let anyone know what was going on until we were ready for Closed Beta.  I'm of the mind of Field of Dreams, "If you build it, they will come", and I wouldn't let anyone know a damn thing until it was ready for Closed Beta.  Like Mr. Appleton, I have a very difficult time NOT feeding the trolls, and I don't see the need to hire a community manager/team until it's time for the community to be available.  It's my vision, not yours, and you don't deserve to know anything about it until it's done, period.

 

I think that's exactly how it should be. Completely agree.

Originally posted by JamesP

I'm sort of confused here.

In our KickStarter we stated that we were using Unity3D. At that time we were banking on getting our hands on a specific piece of Technology that would have allowed us to have the seamless world we were planning on having. We then found out that piece of technology was still in development, was more for the license then we even managed to get through our KickStarter, or required a Revenue Share to obtain a license for. So another words that piece of technology that we were basing our whole Framework on having fell through. That Combined with Unity's Sneaky tactics of trying to hide the fact that they added some new things into their EULA caused us to loose faith in Unity3D for Greed Monger which meant we had to change engines to continue moving forward.

 

Now you guys are seeming to indicate you would rather have had us stick with Unity3D and released a watered down Zone (With Loading Screens) based version of what we wanted to release and were promising to release...

 

I just really fail to see the logic in all of that? 

 

James, you and I seem to have a very different way of doing business.

When I make a promise to a client or an investor their is only one evaluating question. Did or didn't i deliver on that promise. "Why" is irrelevant to my customer most of the time.

This is an industry where consumers have been cheated , ripped off / had change forced on them or out right lied too on numerous occasions. Sure there are haters and fanboys in equal measure but the vast majority of us are just suspicous / jaded consumers who will run a mile at the first sign that a developer is not delivering what was promised for whatever reason.

I want to offer you a couple of tips which i would like you to atleast consider:

Manage expectations, only offer what you know you can deliver. if something isn't certian don't mention it. People will love you for over delivering later.

Don't ever try to agrue with haters however "right" you are it will never help the situation.  Some of your potential customers may just read 1 or 2 posts in a thread in which you get angry and decide your a nutter because they havn't read the other posts which illicited that response from you. This is particuliarly important in an international forums because acceptable standard of behaviour very hugely arround the world. Getting angry is not nearly as acceptable outside the US in the business world.

This is exactly why devs shouldn't play Forum PvP. You can't win.

Hire a PR person who can handle forum discussion without having their emotions run wild. Shouldn't you be busy doing something else anyway?

Rule One: DONT FEED THE TROLLS.

Rule Two: BE KIND TO TROLLS. (makes them crazy)

Rule Three: NEVER SHOW EMOTION. ( the emo kids will feed on your soul.)

These are the rules of the internet of todays age welcome.

1.You are free to have whatever attitude you like. You are free to speak your mind and say whatever you like.

2.We are free to get rubbed the wrong way by your attitude. We are free to totally ignore your work and spend money elsewhere.

3.If you get emotionally charged by comments on the internet or internet forums, you are immature. It's text on a screen and it only has meaning if you give it meaning.

4.If you goal is to get as many people as possible to invest in your project and ultimately buy your game. You have a strange way of advertising.