Conflict of egos really. A quick read through this thread should really tell you all you need to know.

When people start taking another's opinion as a personal affront instead of just a differing veiwpoint, the argument tends to stop being about the actual sucject at hand and more about one faction trying to one up the other. It becomes personal. This is why we have such non sequiturs as troll, hater, fanboi, shill, and haters gonna hate. Which are all not only incredibly childish responses but also devices to discredit that the individual or faction they disagree with could possibly even have a rational or logical point to make. So the arguments continue, louder and louder, until it gives rise to the black hatred where people are actually delighted to see a game stumble or fail just so they can feel they got one over on the self preceived "enemy" that refused to take their opinions seriously, whether said opinions where justified or not.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Kyleran

It's nothing personal.  Simple fact is I want new MMORPG's to be built that incorporate some of the features and designs that I prefer, and currently the main focus of most titles is decidedly different from that.

Way I see it, the only way I'll ever have a chance of seeing a bit more variation in the feature sets of new games is for the current crop being delivered to fail, and fail miserably. 

Yeah, I know my view is selfish, I'm just like that what can I say. 

Unfortunately game design more or less follows the herd in terms of design so I need to see the herd run right off the cliff in order for there to be a chance of something more to my liking being delivered.

Good news for most other folks is that my campaign so far has only been partially successful.  Plenty of titles keep crashing against the rocks, but developers keep sending us the same thing again and again. (with some subtle variations I'll grant)

Or maybe like that other guy said, I'm just a douche.

 

The problem is - it is personal - when you are selfish it is personal.

 

People think they know what goes into game design but they really don't because they haven't done it. Just because they know what what they want in a game doesn't mean it is possible. I said this before, all games, cars, etc anything designed is a compromise. We have had no-compromise cars, take the Bugatti Veryon, at 1.5 million dollars a car - it is a statement but that is it. Same can be said with games. One could make a no-compromise game but would people be able to afford the price of it or let alone the PC to play it? Probably not. To make things the costs more realistic, they have to compromise. Unfortunately, people with opinions do not have to compromise - they assume everything they want can be done, even if the actual game developer says it can't. An example of this was a recent thread here, about GW2, where people kept saying they want open world PvP and there were actual quotes, from A.Net developers, saying that Open world PvP cannot be put in the game because the game wasn't designed for it.

I broadly agree with this.

I'd like to add though that it has also to do with the base of users here.  A lot of them simply do not like the way MMO's have gone since they first discovered them and have the naive notion that if developers went back to, 'basics', that would work, while completely ignoring their own personal nostalgia.  

There's also the naive idea that if a lot of these, 'WoW clone', games failed then developers would simply start making games to these guys wishlist.  Truth is, the investors involved with raising the capital would simply look to other markets to invest and large scale projects, like MMOs, wouldn't get made as there seen as too risky to make a profit on.

Were coming to the end of the gold rush in this market and it'd be better for a few successes then many failures if we want to see developers take chances with a new MMO.

There are valid reasons.

If you're a big fan of the MMO genre and you think that genre is being ruined by certain dynamics (I.E. instancing, de-emphasizing communitiy) then big money games that use those dynamics need to fail or they'll become an adopted norm.

If you're a big fan of a given IP and an MMO has come out based on that IP but the MMO in your opinion has handled it terribly (I.E. LoTRO, SWTOR, ESO), then your only hope to play an MMO based on your favorite IP is to hope the current version fails and a new better one is made.

Originally posted by Paradigm68

There are valid reasons.

If you're a big fan of the MMO genre and you think that genre is being ruined by certain dynamics (I.E. instancing, de-emphasizing communitiy) then big money games that use those dynamics need to fail or they'll become an adopted norm.

If you're a big fan of a given IP and an MMO has come out based on that IP but the MMO in your opinion has handled it terribly (I.E. LoTRO, SWTOR, ESO), then your only hope to play an MMO based on your favorite IP is to hope the current version fails and a new better one is made.

Again, your assumption that the fail would = a game made in the way you want is wishful thinking at its worst.  It's more likely they won't create MMOs ever again, or try to do the the same style "better."  A more productive path is to talk positively to the devs that are engaging their user bases and push for features you like.

When I see guys wrapping up games with same old s**t, new names and new sugar coated marketing words - of course I want them to fail. 

If they want to make their own game and not just milk the 'old concept' cow, then they'll have my money and support. Otherwise they can burn. 

Originally posted by Paradigm68

There are valid reasons.

If you're a big fan of the MMO genre and you think that genre is being ruined by certain dynamics (I.E. instancing, de-emphasizing communitiy) then big money games that use those dynamics need to fail or they'll become an adopted norm.

If you're a big fan of a given IP and an MMO has come out based on that IP but the MMO in your opinion has handled it terribly (I.E. LoTRO, SWTOR, ESO), then your only hope to play an MMO based on your favorite IP is to hope the current version fails and a new better one is made.

This shows a fundamentally flawed logic that is pretty common amongst people that doesn't know how the real world works.

The logic of 'Failure = breeds innovation / better version' is flawed and history has proven time and again that it is false.

Why people still think this way I have no idea.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Paradigm68

There are valid reasons.

If you're a big fan of the MMO genre and you think that genre is being ruined by certain dynamics (I.E. instancing, de-emphasizing communitiy) then big money games that use those dynamics need to fail or they'll become an adopted norm.

If you're a big fan of a given IP and an MMO has come out based on that IP but the MMO in your opinion has handled it terribly (I.E. LoTRO, SWTOR, ESO), then your only hope to play an MMO based on your favorite IP is to hope the current version fails and a new better one is made.

This shows a fundamentally flawed logic that is pretty common amongst people that doesn't know how the real world works.

The logic of 'Failure = breeds innovation / better version' is flawed and history has proven time and again that it is false.

Why people still think this way I have no idea.

Yup.  Here's an example: the houses in Haiti were not built well, and certainly not to withstand a great earthquake.  When the earthquake did hit, it did not suddenly result in the rise of excellent buildings in Haiti.  The failure of an MMO will not suddenly result in better MMOs.  There are way too many other conclusions to be drawn from the failure, and 98% of them will not be the ones you wish for.

Wow, just imagine how betamax fanbios feel about the demise of betamax......and those poor workers who made betamax......Couldnt we all please just keep them employed and celebrate them for making betamaxs ?

And of course lead paint, and  those poor workers who made lead paint ....

Its not like bad products need to fail. Oh.... wait..... they kinda do......

Originally posted by Mortemia

When I see guys wrapping up games with same old s**t, new names and new sugar coated marketing words - of course I want them to fail. 

If they want to make their own game and not just milk the 'old concept' cow, then they'll have my money and support. Otherwise they can burn. 

That's a totally legit response, and voting with your wallet is certainly valid.  But to get the game you want, you are better off finding and supporting a game that is closest to your ideal.  If the devs are open to communication, you'll have better luck opening a dialogue with them to the get the features you want.

The burning down of MMOs you don't like will rarely result in ones you do.

Originally posted by tkobo

Wow, just imagine how betamax fanbios feel about the demise of betamax......and those poor workers who made betamax......Couldnt we all please just keep them employed and celebrate them for making betamaxs ?

And of course lead paint, and  those poor workers who made lead paint ....

Its not like bad products need to fail. Oh.... wait..... they kinda do......

There was an attractive alternative to betamax with VHS, and the market flocked to it.  There was no need to actively push for its death, it happened by itself.  And no one ever "enjoyed" lead point, so that's a no-brainer.  

We're talking here about games that are liked by some that others want to destroy.  Nothing being said here about supporting games no one likes, only games that some like and others don't.

Originally posted by bishbosh2
because it means that similar games will not be made in the future. eg. if wow had shutdown <6 months after launch we wouldnt have so many wow clones

Nope, it would probably be EQ, UO, or EVE clones, and then people would probably be complaining that there are too many of those existing and not enough that are more story-driven.

Originally posted by Yakkin

Originally posted by bishbosh2
because it means that similar games will not be made in the future. eg. if wow had shutdown <6 months after launch we wouldnt have so many wow clones

Nope, it would probably be EQ, UO, or EVE clones, and then people would probably be complaining that there are too many of those existing and not enough that are more story-driven.

More likely it would mean a dwindling MMO market.  See, the problem with marketers is that they look at dollars, not the generator of the dollars.  The most likely conclusion would be (falsely, I think) that "MMOs are no longer viable and we should stop making them."  

See, the fallacy is in thinking that a company will draw a conclusion you agree with.

Originally posted by TheScavenger

It doesn't make sense. And it is a growing problem...or the problem is just more noticeable with more people playing MMOs. 

So again...why do "some" people find enjoyment in a MMO being closed or doing badly?

1) People get hyped .. the game launches .. it's not up to their desires, and they react .. badly .. all the way to the final hour.

2) Paid shills sayin' what they're told to say. 

3) Schaudenfr- .. naah, there's no such thing on the internet *rollseyes*

and

4) As was mentioned every so often, people are glad to see something they don't like gone, because it means there is a smaller chance a new game will be like the one that was ended.

Originally posted by Deddpool
They want the mmo they are not playing to fail, because its not THEIR mmo..since they are putting money is X mmo, then all others must die to justify spending their money.  Stupid.

That is not even close to true, there is obviously a few people that think this, but seriously, people are sick of 300000000000 mmos reskinned and sold as something new.

If you have been reading, most want these shit mmos to die, so they stop making them, if they start losing money on them, then they will stop making crap mmos.

So its not stupid, like the one guy said, we ant quality not quantity.

For the same reason that critics of pre release MMO hype train like to rub it in on fanboys that been attacking the critics. its sort of a major "I told you so" kind of thing.

"I told you developers and fanboys that you were doing things all wrong. Now your MMO is dying just like I speculated and predicted it would. Told you so. Next time dont be so blind fanboi and listen to what the critics who can see reality of the product has to say about your game so it can actually do great."

Originally posted by bishbosh2
because it means that similar games will not be made in the future. eg. if wow had shutdown <6 months after launch we wouldnt have so many wow clones

completely agree. so many games are pure trash and the the developers are just cashing in.