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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » New Free to play changes to VG.

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52 posts found
  ukkoylijumal

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/04
Posts: 8

1/18/13 9:41:28 AM#21
Really now SoE should be happy to get 5 bucks from me. Now they get nothing. Getting lots of people with just few bucks is what makes them money. I could spend 20 bucks to unlock those items restrictions permanently but its not an option last time I checked. Giving players different options to pay is what most players are looking for.
  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1439

1/18/13 9:44:11 AM#22
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Sorry Vanguard, I had high hopes from the beginning, but years of neglect can't be made up for by a very badly done B2P model. When are you people gonna realize that no one can play the game with the stupid limitations you set? It's like how on EQ I tried the F2P version, you can't even get enough money to buy gear because of coin limitations. Crap like that has no place if you want F2P to work.

 

You can level up (through countless amounts of content) which can take quite some time and not run into an item you need to unlock, in EQ. I really wonder about people and what they claim is unplayable... So SOE lifts some restrictions and people act like they added more...lol.
  Gishgeron

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1297

1/18/13 9:47:44 AM#23
Originally posted by Torgir
Originally posted by jonrd463
Originally posted by Torgir
Looked great until I got to the part where I'm not allowed to use most higher than blue items as a free player. Ridiculous limitation and sadly in line with other SOE f2p titles. Now I understand that you have to make money from something but poor f2p model is a poor model. If you're planning on attractive membership benefits, please review the free player deal.

 

I'm curious. Knowing that any enterprise must turn a profit to exist, what would you suggest they do as a F2P model? As you said, they have to make money, so I'm wondering where the value threshold is that would make you or any reasonable person say "Alright, that's something I'm willing to pay money for."

 

There's good and bad f2p models in the current market. Personally I find the b2p model with a cosmetic CS most attractive, GW2, TSW and next month TERA. Turbine has also made a lucrative model by giving the option for cheap, customizable lifetime packages, so to say. So in my opinion a b2p Vanguard relaunch should've been at least on the table as a viable option. Again, this isn't the company line of doing things so it's probably out of the question.

 

The problem with B2P and cosmetic CS options is that they really only work with games holding a large playerbase. Most players are NOT going to spend money on cosmetic crap. I won't, and none of my friends do. So those games rely on large playerbases to get enough of a sample group to GET those sales. When dealing with a smaller game needing to grow into a stage where real development is possible again, you need actual player support. Of all the games I've seen come from that background, this is the best model I've seen. The GW 2 model works from launch, on a largely sought after title. It will not generate the revenue needed to work on a small game. This is not guesswork either, its fairly obvious to anyone who understands the market at all. So I'd like you to approach this again, and tell me what OTHER model you think would be better than the one they are providing in THIS situation. A game with a small playerbase that is on the decline and needs a financial boost and consumer growth to remain sustainable.

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/18/13 9:51:28 AM#24
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Sorry Vanguard, I had high hopes from the beginning, but years of neglect can't be made up for by a very badly done B2P model. When are you people gonna realize that no one can play the game with the stupid limitations you set? It's like how on EQ I tried the F2P version, you can't even get enough money to buy gear because of coin limitations. Crap like that has no place if you want F2P to work.

 

You can level up (through countless amounts of content) which can take quite some time and not run into an item you need to unlock, in EQ. I really wonder about people and what they claim is unplayable... So SOE lifts some restrictions and people act like they added more...lol.

 

You missed the point entirely. When I log onto Vanguard, which I paid full price for, and I can't play any of my old characters because of gear restrictions, who does that punish? The greedy turd or the loyal customer who bought it and played for almost a year. I gave them more money than they are going to make on 90% of these F2P players, so what is my incentive to play if I can't play my characters because they are all half naked? Gear restrictions are silly. Coin limitations are silly (in pretty much every SoE title) It's just bad business.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1352

We live for The One, we die for The One.

1/18/13 10:00:23 AM#25
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Torgir
Originally posted by Benedikt
torgir, tsabohavoc:
*.... must .... keep .... it .... must .... not ....comment ....on their .... posts*
sorry folks I am not able to keep away from commenting, so here it is: thank you that you dont like the f2p changes. i really dont want to meat people like you in the game.

you got almost everything possible for free and you are bitching that it is not enough? give me a break

 

I'm discussing this f2p model in light of competition in the market which is what I consider proper for the topic. These things do tend to get pretty personal fast and no, I'm not.

 

im not complaining of f2p restrictions (also i dislike any like "f2P" model), what i dislike is hipocrisy and greed.

 

i never understood this attitude:
how can someone ever bitch that "what he got FOR FREE" is not enough? are you living in some mysterious unknown haven where you are used to get everything for free? me, when i get something for free, i am grateful for that, not saying "i want more, this is not enough!". when i want to play a game, i understand that have to PAY for it, if i can play it (with limitations) without paying, its just a bonus.
sorry about the rant, but i am getting really sick of the ungrateful f2p players
  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2700

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

1/18/13 10:05:59 AM#26
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Sorry Vanguard, I had high hopes from the beginning, but years of neglect can't be made up for by a very badly done B2P model. When are you people gonna realize that no one can play the game with the stupid limitations you set? It's like how on EQ I tried the F2P version, you can't even get enough money to buy gear because of coin limitations. Crap like that has no place if you want F2P to work.

 

You can level up (through countless amounts of content) which can take quite some time and not run into an item you need to unlock, in EQ. I really wonder about people and what they claim is unplayable... So SOE lifts some restrictions and people act like they added more...lol.

 

You missed the point entirely. When I log onto Vanguard, which I paid full price for, and I can't play any of my old characters because of gear restrictions, who does that punish? The greedy turd or the loyal customer who bought it and played for almost a year. I gave them more money than they are going to make on 90% of these F2P players, so what is my incentive to play if I can't play my characters because they are all half naked? Gear restrictions are silly. Coin limitations are silly (in pretty much every SoE title) It's just bad business.

 

This is pretty much my feeling as well. Why offer a F2P version of your game if you're going to force former players into a pay to win situation? It's the same reason I stop playing EQ2. If you're going to try to entice new players to join SOE Needs to take a page out of Lineage 2, Terra, Aion and TSW's book. Don't strip your game down to appeal to free players, build it up to appeal to paying ones.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  TsaboHavoc

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/11
Posts: 340

1/18/13 10:24:27 AM#27
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
Originally posted by Torgir
Originally posted by Benedikt
torgir, tsabohavoc:
*.... must .... keep .... it .... must .... not ....comment ....on their .... posts*
sorry folks I am not able to keep away from commenting, so here it is: thank you that you dont like the f2p changes. i really dont want to meat people like you in the game.

you got almost everything possible for free and you are bitching that it is not enough? give me a break

 

I'm discussing this f2p model in light of competition in the market which is what I consider proper for the topic. These things do tend to get pretty personal fast and no, I'm not.

 

im not complaining of f2p restrictions (also i dislike any like "f2P" model), what i dislike is hipocrisy and greed.

 

i never understood this attitude:
how can someone ever bitch that "what he got FOR FREE" is not enough? are you living in some mysterious unknown haven where you are used to get everything for free? me, when i get something for free, i am grateful for that, not saying "i want more, this is not enough!". when i want to play a game, i understand that have to PAY for it, if i can play it (with limitations) without paying, its just a bonus.
sorry about the rant, but i am getting really sick of the ungrateful f2p players

 

what im saying is: this f2p model makes the game suffer cause instead of growing in a natural and organic way to please the players and keep them subscribed, the game are being changed to fast milk money from players in a nom-imersive way (u cant use this, u cant go there gimme ur money first). why do this instead of a b2p model or an all unlocked game in a p2p model with more ppl working? what about the ppl that supported the game all these years and cant even use the characters cause their gear was taken away from them to enforce a greedy "f2P" mechanic?
  Torgir

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 27

1/18/13 10:24:34 AM#28
Originally posted by Ramonski7
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Sorry Vanguard, I had high hopes from the beginning, but years of neglect can't be made up for by a very badly done B2P model. When are you people gonna realize that no one can play the game with the stupid limitations you set? It's like how on EQ I tried the F2P version, you can't even get enough money to buy gear because of coin limitations. Crap like that has no place if you want F2P to work.

 

You can level up (through countless amounts of content) which can take quite some time and not run into an item you need to unlock, in EQ. I really wonder about people and what they claim is unplayable... So SOE lifts some restrictions and people act like they added more...lol.

 

You missed the point entirely. When I log onto Vanguard, which I paid full price for, and I can't play any of my old characters because of gear restrictions, who does that punish? The greedy turd or the loyal customer who bought it and played for almost a year. I gave them more money than they are going to make on 90% of these F2P players, so what is my incentive to play if I can't play my characters because they are all half naked? Gear restrictions are silly. Coin limitations are silly (in pretty much every SoE title) It's just bad business.

 

This is pretty much my feeling as well. Why offer a F2P version of your game if you're going to force former players into a pay to win situation? It's the same reason I stop playing EQ2. If you're going to try to entice new players to join SOE Needs to take a page out of Lineage 2, Terra, Aion and TSW's book. Don't strip your game down to appeal to free players, build it up to appeal to paying ones.

 

I agree with this partially. I mean, if there was no f2p, you'd have to pay $15 to even get to the character selection screen. You still get the same product for that $15. On the other hand though, the market has changed. You have to give more than before to stay alive. It's not our fault as customers. It's the sellers that have changed the rules by trying to get an edge in competition. Hell yes I'll get what I can for less and let the companies worry about their account balance. Yes, those limitations you mention are a bad design, also with spell ranks in EQ/EQ2. They just make you not want to play. What I've been saying here.
  Scorchien

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/06
Posts: 1100

1/18/13 10:24:46 AM#29
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Sorry Vanguard, I had high hopes from the beginning, but years of neglect can't be made up for by a very badly done B2P model. When are you people gonna realize that no one can play the game with the stupid limitations you set? It's like how on EQ I tried the F2P version, you can't even get enough money to buy gear because of coin limitations. Crap like that has no place if you want F2P to work.

 

You can level up (through countless amounts of content) which can take quite some time and not run into an item you need to unlock, in EQ. I really wonder about people and what they claim is unplayable... So SOE lifts some restrictions and people act like they added more...lol.

 

You missed the point entirely. When I log onto Vanguard, which I paid full price for, and I can't play any of my old characters because of gear restrictions, who does that punish? The greedy turd or the loyal customer who bought it and played for almost a year. I gave them more money than they are going to make on 90% of these F2P players, so what is my incentive to play if I can't play my characters because they are all half naked? Gear restrictions are silly. Coin limitations are silly (in pretty much every SoE title) It's just bad business.

 

There is no punishment on that , the exisiting gear you are wearing his allowed wethr its blue , yellow , orange .. I wouldnt take it off, as it will Member lock ... And you can buy x5 gear unlocks for very cheap , which is great for F2P players , they removed most of the resrictions and it really is a great F2P model such a great game...
  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/18/13 10:37:01 AM#30
There are basically three options of f2p conversion models we have seen: 1. Intend people to actually play as f2p but still get money off them. This is the nickel and dime method. Turbine is the prime example of this. The nickel and diming also affects the subbed members as basic mmo features such as shared bank storage and exp locks arent given to subbers, but must be purchased. 2. F2P intended as an extended trial, intent is to get people to sub. This is the SoE model, and regardless of what some of this site's posters think it has worked for them with EQ2. Yes, the people that care what others are wearing wont like it, but those that just enjoy playing through content without worrying if they are overpowered for it should enjoy it. SWTOR is how not to do this method. 3. Cash shop only, no sub. relies on extreme volume (GW2), funding from another player base (L2, Aion), or content purchases (TSW)
  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/18/13 10:41:20 AM#31
Originally posted by Torgir They just make you not want to play. What I've been saying here.
They make YOU not want to play, not me. The system isn't designed for people like you. Get over it and move on. If you enjoy the game enough to get to the point where gear matters and you don't sub (or buy the unlockers, they arent expensive) you are a cheap, greedy person anyway.
  Talonsin

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/19/06
Posts: 1102

1/18/13 10:41:40 AM#32
I think this is a very positive move for the game. Glad the F2P option has become more attractive.
  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

1/18/13 10:49:37 AM#33

Interesting news.  I felt that the F2P offering was a bit restrictive when announced.  This opens that up quite a bit.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1352

We live for The One, we die for The One.

1/18/13 10:53:41 AM#34
Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
 why do this instead of a b2p model or an all unlocked game in a p2p model with more ppl working? what about the ppl that supported the game all these years and cant even use the characters cause their gear was taken away from them to enforce a greedy "f2P" mechanic?

huh, what are you talking about? there is still a p2p model with everything unlocked. as for "ppl that supported the game all these years" - they can still play the same they did before, they just got 2. option - to play for free with limitations (not to mention that as far as i know, ppl who had items before p2p still either had them unlocked or they got them unlocked when they asked for it, because not unlocking was a bug afaik (but i play p2p, so didnt pay too much attention to that))

  Aeonblades

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/12
Posts: 2123

1/18/13 11:08:15 AM#35
Originally posted by Scorchien

 There is no punishment on that , the exisiting gear you are wearing his allowed wethr its blue , yellow , orange .. I wouldnt take it off, as it will Member lock ... And you can buy x5 gear unlocks for very cheap , which is great for F2P players , they removed most of the resrictions and it really is a great F2P model such a great game...

Then why, when it first went F2P, I logged in, and yes, the gear was equipped, but I received no stats from it and the character appeared naked? I guess it's kind of a moot point because there I have already dropped over $200 dollars into this sinking ship since release in subscription fees and they never even fixed most of the basic problems. That's probably the root of the problem for me. Why should I spend more money when I didn't already get my money's worth?

If you are going to F2P do it right, if the product is not worth it don't expect people to invest money into their precious gear unlocks.

Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.

  Dirkin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 78

1/18/13 11:20:03 AM#36
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Scorchien

 There is no punishment on that , the exisiting gear you are wearing his allowed wethr its blue , yellow , orange .. I wouldnt take it off, as it will Member lock ... And you can buy x5 gear unlocks for very cheap , which is great for F2P players , they removed most of the resrictions and it really is a great F2P model such a great game...

Then why, when it first went F2P, I logged in, and yes, the gear was equipped, but I received no stats from it and the character appeared naked? I guess it's kind of a moot point because there I have already dropped over $200 dollars into this sinking ship since release in subscription fees and they never even fixed most of the basic problems. That's probably the root of the problem for me. Why should I spend more money when I didn't already get my money's worth?

If you are going to F2P do it right, if the product is not worth it don't expect people to invest money into their precious gear unlocks.

 

If you have any inclination to log in again, just petition and let a GM know this happened. You'll get all that gear unlocked for free. Any gear you had prior to f2p status is supposed to be permanently unlocked for you automatically. I believe it's working fine now, but if you did this back near when f2p launched I think think they had a few issues with it.

 

I'm not entirely sure how people can see teh item restriction as it is now as sufficient to make them not even play. I mean, yeah you don't get everything for free, but restricted to blue items is not game-breakingly bad. I doubt anyone levelling up will even see a yellow+ item until around close to 30, except maybe a few player crafted pieces. Even then, gear unlockers cost 50 cents. It seems fairly reasonable to me.

 

Obviously I am a VG fan, and I have been subbed to it since launch, but I like to think I stay pretty objective about this kind of stuff. When they first came out with the original f2p restrictions, it was way too bad. With all these changes, I think it's pretty decent.

  Scorchien

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/06
Posts: 1100

1/18/13 11:45:42 AM#37
Originally posted by Dirkin
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Scorchien

 There is no punishment on that , the exisiting gear you are wearing his allowed wethr its blue , yellow , orange .. I wouldnt take it off, as it will Member lock ... And you can buy x5 gear unlocks for very cheap , which is great for F2P players , they removed most of the resrictions and it really is a great F2P model such a great game...

Then why, when it first went F2P, I logged in, and yes, the gear was equipped, but I received no stats from it and the character appeared naked? I guess it's kind of a moot point because there I have already dropped over $200 dollars into this sinking ship since release in subscription fees and they never even fixed most of the basic problems. That's probably the root of the problem for me. Why should I spend more money when I didn't already get my money's worth?

If you are going to F2P do it right, if the product is not worth it don't expect people to invest money into their precious gear unlocks.

 

If you have any inclination to log in again, just petition and let a GM know this happened. You'll get all that gear unlocked for free. Any gear you had prior to f2p status is supposed to be permanently unlocked for you automatically. I believe it's working fine now, but if you did this back near when f2p launched I think think they had a few issues with it.

 

I'm not entirely sure how people can see teh item restriction as it is now as sufficient to make them not even play. I mean, yeah you don't get everything for free, but restricted to blue items is not game-breakingly bad. I doubt anyone levelling up will even see a yellow+ item until around close to 30, except maybe a few player crafted pieces. Even then, gear unlockers cost 50 cents. It seems fairly reasonable to me.

 

Obviously I am a VG fan, and I have been subbed to it since launch, but I like to think I stay pretty objective about this kind of stuff. When they first came out with the original f2p restrictions, it was way too bad. With all these changes, I think it's pretty decent.

 Yea it worked fine for me , for all my characters ... NP at all..

 

   This really is a great F2P model , people need to take the time to see what is avaible for free , its an impressive list and what is available for SC .. For ex.. any/race combo and all content is open to you ... Nice huh ... Now as F2P and you get to Skirleen POint and start the The HUnters League Line you will get 3 blues and 4 Yellow (locked) items .. You can purchase a x5 item unlock for i think 2.00$ and you are set in gear for 10 lvls and still have1 item unlock to boot .. You can put up a house form extra storage now... It really is a great deal and almost makes want to unsub lmao ...

 

  In addition there are plemty of good Guilds recruiting F2P and returning playesr and will help with harvest runs to get a house up in a couple days in many cases ..

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1439

1/18/13 11:53:39 AM#38
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Sorry Vanguard, I had high hopes from the beginning, but years of neglect can't be made up for by a very badly done B2P model. When are you people gonna realize that no one can play the game with the stupid limitations you set? It's like how on EQ I tried the F2P version, you can't even get enough money to buy gear because of coin limitations. Crap like that has no place if you want F2P to work.

 

You can level up (through countless amounts of content) which can take quite some time and not run into an item you need to unlock, in EQ. I really wonder about people and what they claim is unplayable... So SOE lifts some restrictions and people act like they added more...lol.

 

You missed the point entirely. When I log onto Vanguard, which I paid full price for, and I can't play any of my old characters because of gear restrictions, who does that punish? The greedy turd or the loyal customer who bought it and played for almost a year. I gave them more money than they are going to make on 90% of these F2P players, so what is my incentive to play if I can't play my characters because they are all half naked? Gear restrictions are silly. Coin limitations are silly (in pretty much every SoE title) It's just bad business.

I didn't miss the point.  The point is play an alt for free.  I thought you could use your gear until you take it off?

  User Deleted
1/18/13 11:57:11 AM#39

Read: TERA just launched an awesome FTP model and noone is playing ours because its shit.

Seriously, any idiot could have told SoE that they would make hardly any money if they try to nickle and dime everyone rather than make money off cosmetic stuff, but no, they have to make sure that anyone who doesnt subscribe is a gimp.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5909

1/18/13 12:01:01 PM#40
Originally posted by kevjards
not wanting to insult people but anyone that uses the term ridiculous limitations,greed etc.should really look in the mirror..you want everything for nothing and then bitch and moan about how the game is.that is greed of the highest order.you people should not be allowed near games has you serve no purpose to the community or the game itself.it costs millions to make these games and your asked to part with a few bucks.have to this is what gaming has turned into these days..a bunch of freeloaders.

I understand your point and that some people want it all for nothing.  However, the point is, for me at least, how they are trying to generate revenue.  Recently the Neverwinter folks had a Q&A at a convention and mentioned that the goal is to provide a sytem where people want to pay and not feel prodded, forced, and cajoled into paying.

Substandard Free Play models (for me of course): LotRO, EQ2, AoC

Better Free Play models: Vanguard

Good Free Play models: STO, Aion, L2, RaiderZ, Tera

I also like the Buy to Play models used by GW2 and TSW.  In particular I think Funcom has done a great job having diverse payment options that aren't confusing.  Both GW2 and TSW need to make their stores a little more interesting though.  We will see how TSW turns out as it starts to price new episodes.  I'm basing this B2P opinion off of the value I felt I got from the initial purchase.

Curse you AquaScum!

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