Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by superniceguy

 *SNIP

In STO this is not an issue as the keys will always be for sale, and if people give up going for dilithium to buy the keys, then no other player will lose out, only Perfect World.

 

 

To convert dilithium to ZEN, someone has to have purchased the ZEN and put them on the exchange. While it is possible to short Cryptic by buying low and selling high, they still make money from people willing to buy ZEN and convert it to dilithium.

The ZEN on the exchange is not from Cryptic, it is from other players.

Nope that's not how that started out. They put zen in the conversion store initially to get the market flowing. :) sorry to burst your bubble. The same thing happened in GW2 , they manipulate the markets 

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by superniceguy

 *SNIP

In STO this is not an issue as the keys will always be for sale, and if people give up going for dilithium to buy the keys, then no other player will lose out, only Perfect World.

 

 

To convert dilithium to ZEN, someone has to have purchased the ZEN and put them on the exchange. While it is possible to short Cryptic by buying low and selling high, they still make money from people willing to buy ZEN and convert it to dilithium.

The ZEN on the exchange is not from Cryptic, it is from other players.

If that is true, then it is not so obvious, and still less sleazy as you are just buying dilithium to purchase various other items which is not the gambling keys.

Devs have been very active lately... someone on the SWTOR forum even started a threat about it LOL - the Op's comment comes from dev tracker...

As to new cartel packs... let them coming

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=587483

Star Wars fans will pay anything for anything they put in the game.

If you have a horrible product that has no viability on the market unless it caters the fanbois, milk it.

Milk it hard.

Originally posted by Karteli

EA set the date for their next earnings call.  Just under 2 weeks from now.

http://investor.ea.com/events.cfm?list=Future

Future Event
Jan 30, 2013 2:00 PM PT	Electronic Arts Q3 2013 Earnings Conference Call

 

We'll get a glimpse of just how profittable the Cartel Market has been.  I'd give a free wager (har!) that it will be announced as a huge success, with some other spin about new free accounts and monetizing those free accounts to generate revenue.  .. Even though IMO most of the revenue is coming from subscribers spending more.

Some verbage yes; details - doubtful. Cannot see EA wanting to talk much about SWTOR. Could be tough big picture questions with EA no longer a NASDAQ 100 company.

However ...

That the cash shop brings in money is obvious but that doesn't mean they can keep a game going (e.g. CoH closed). The big question is how much is SWTOR costing EA to run.

In the last call JR said that they were looking at needing 500k sunscribers for the game to run at a profit in its current incarnation - less than the 1M number early last year but with fewer staff and maybe the development costs written off ... anyway 500k. They also said that they were looking at a 50/50 split between subs and cash shop purchases.

So there may be a comment about cash shop bringing in more money (maybe) than subs. This can be answered without details and given a positive spin even if the number of subs has dropped to zero.

They may also talk about the big rise in accounts.

If the analysts have been a Zynga presentations however then they may want more specific data. Actuals sub numbers .... churn ... percentage of accounts spending any money in the cash shop etc.

Originally posted by GoldenArrow

Star Wars fans will pay anything for anything they put in the game.

 

If you have a horrible product that has no viability on the market unless it caters the fanbois, milk it.

Milk it hard.

Hmmm I think it applies not only to Star Wars fans...  and why would it bother you or anybody in fact,  that fans are milked :) Fans have their minds and they decide if they want to be milked or not. It's nobody else business.

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by ezpz77

I'd say that gambling packs are most definetly a sustainable business model. As long as they can keep churning them out, weak-willed individuals will shell out hundreds of dollars, or more, at the chance of winning it big. The trick is to make the stuff in them really desirable and rare. I fully expect to see more items added to these packs that give players a very obvious advantage in game.

I consider myself a pretty thrifty guy. I've never even played a poker game for cash, but years ago, I dropped about $150 on gambling packs in Atlantica Online (in one sitting.) By the time I got what I was after, I didn't even care about the item anymore. A few hours later, my wife ripped me a new ass, and that was the end of my gamblin' days, but they can be extremely effective. I wouldn't doubt for a second that EA is making a truckoad of cash off of them.

Yeah. Thats called addiction ;-) 

Could care less if there were gambling packs in the game.  I wont be using them.  Not for me to tell others not to waste money/time on them if it works for them.

I just want to play my character, which this doesnt interfere with at all.

Personally, I care about a wider situation more then just how it effects me and am aware that this model targets the wallets of vulnerable to make an uncapped amount of money from them.

Personally, I am not ok with that and I feel guilty if my gaming comes at such a cost to others.

Personally, I would prefer we all pay the same minimal amount and be spared manipulative unethical revenue models with hidden costs.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by ezpz77

I'd say that gambling packs are most definetly a sustainable business model. As long as they can keep churning them out, weak-willed individuals will shell out hundreds of dollars, or more, at the chance of winning it big. The trick is to make the stuff in them really desirable and rare. I fully expect to see more items added to these packs that give players a very obvious advantage in game.

I consider myself a pretty thrifty guy. I've never even played a poker game for cash, but years ago, I dropped about $150 on gambling packs in Atlantica Online (in one sitting.) By the time I got what I was after, I didn't even care about the item anymore. A few hours later, my wife ripped me a new ass, and that was the end of my gamblin' days, but they can be extremely effective. I wouldn't doubt for a second that EA is making a truckoad of cash off of them.

Yeah. Thats called addiction ;-) 

Could care less if there were gambling packs in the game.  I wont be using them.  Not for me to tell others not to waste money/time on them if it works for them.

I just want to play my character, which this doesnt interfere with at all.

 

Personally, I care about a wider situation more then just how it effects me and am aware that this model targets the wallets of vulnerable to make an uncapped amount of money from them.

Personally, I am not ok with that and I feel guilty if my gaming comes at such a cost to others.

Personally, I would prefer we all pay the same minimal amount and be spared manipulative unethical revenue models with hidden costs.

 

 

This seems to me much like a "Welcome to George Orwell's world.." Please,  let the gamblers have fun if they so desire and non-gamblers who do not wish to spend a penny to  not have to have this minimal amount (I would call it tax) added to their sub.

Let the player have freedom of choice.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by ezpz77

I'd say that gambling packs are most definetly a sustainable business model. As long as they can keep churning them out, weak-willed individuals will shell out hundreds of dollars, or more, at the chance of winning it big. The trick is to make the stuff in them really desirable and rare. I fully expect to see more items added to these packs that give players a very obvious advantage in game.

I consider myself a pretty thrifty guy. I've never even played a poker game for cash, but years ago, I dropped about $150 on gambling packs in Atlantica Online (in one sitting.) By the time I got what I was after, I didn't even care about the item anymore. A few hours later, my wife ripped me a new ass, and that was the end of my gamblin' days, but they can be extremely effective. I wouldn't doubt for a second that EA is making a truckoad of cash off of them.

Yeah. Thats called addiction ;-) 

Could care less if there were gambling packs in the game.  I wont be using them.  Not for me to tell others not to waste money/time on them if it works for them.

I just want to play my character, which this doesnt interfere with at all.

 

Personally, I care about a wider situation more then just how it effects me and am aware that this model targets the wallets of vulnerable to make an uncapped amount of money from them.

Personally, I am not ok with that and I feel guilty if my gaming comes at such a cost to others.

Personally, I would prefer we all pay the same minimal amount and be spared manipulative unethical revenue models with hidden costs.

This seems to me much like a "Welcome to George Orwell's world.." Please,  let the gamblers have fun if they so desire and non-gamblers who do not wish to spend a penny to  not have to have this minimal amount (I would call it tax) added to their sub.

Let the player have freedom of choice.

This is too deep to get into here, because it will take us into a discussion of empathy, responsibility for (vulnerable) others, and sociopathic behaviours, all of which would probably get me warned or even banned for discussing 'ethics'.

And I probably would not convince you of anything anyhow. I suspect it is something someone naturally understands or not.

So... I will let you get on with your thing and wish you luck.

Originally posted by itgrowls

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by superniceguy

 *SNIP

In STO this is not an issue as the keys will always be for sale, and if people give up going for dilithium to buy the keys, then no other player will lose out, only Perfect World.

 

 

To convert dilithium to ZEN, someone has to have purchased the ZEN and put them on the exchange. While it is possible to short Cryptic by buying low and selling high, they still make money from people willing to buy ZEN and convert it to dilithium.

The ZEN on the exchange is not from Cryptic, it is from other players.

Nope that's not how that started out. They put zen in the conversion store initially to get the market flowing. :) sorry to burst your bubble. The same thing happened in GW2 , they manipulate the markets 

Interesting. Though, I do believe that Cryptic can manipulate the exchange, there is no evidence that it is happening. Maybe in the beginnning to, as you say, "get the market flowing".

Edit: thread with official responses on the matter

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by ezpz77

I'd say that gambling packs are most definetly a sustainable business model. As long as they can keep churning them out, weak-willed individuals will shell out hundreds of dollars, or more, at the chance of winning it big. The trick is to make the stuff in them really desirable and rare. I fully expect to see more items added to these packs that give players a very obvious advantage in game.

I consider myself a pretty thrifty guy. I've never even played a poker game for cash, but years ago, I dropped about $150 on gambling packs in Atlantica Online (in one sitting.) By the time I got what I was after, I didn't even care about the item anymore. A few hours later, my wife ripped me a new ass, and that was the end of my gamblin' days, but they can be extremely effective. I wouldn't doubt for a second that EA is making a truckoad of cash off of them.

Yeah. Thats called addiction ;-) 

Could care less if there were gambling packs in the game.  I wont be using them.  Not for me to tell others not to waste money/time on them if it works for them.

I just want to play my character, which this doesnt interfere with at all.

 

Personally, I care about a wider situation more then just how it effects me and am aware that this model targets the wallets of vulnerable to make an uncapped amount of money from them.

Personally, I am not ok with that and I feel guilty if my gaming comes at such a cost to others.

Personally, I would prefer we all pay the same minimal amount and be spared manipulative unethical revenue models with hidden costs.

This seems to me much like a "Welcome to George Orwell's world.." Please,  let the gamblers have fun if they so desire and non-gamblers who do not wish to spend a penny to  not have to have this minimal amount (I would call it tax) added to their sub.

Let the player have freedom of choice.

 

This is too deep to get into here, because it will take us into a discussion of empathy, responsibility for (vulnerable) others, and sociopathic behaviours, all of which would probably get me warned or even banned for discussing 'ethics'.

And I probably would not convince you of anything anyhow. I suspect it is something someone naturally understands or not.

So... I will let you get on with your thing and wish you luck.

I appreciate your comment. I understand we are of different opinion here.

I believe in personal responsibility and I don't want anybody to decide for me what is good for me and what is bad. If I want to buy something in cash shop it is my decision, and my only. BioWare is not forcing me to do it. Somebody who looses all his money due gambling receives much better lesson then if you would just cut him out of it.  If you won't touch fire as a child you won't learn that you should avoid it.

Parents should be responsible for their kids in a game and it's their decision how to deal with cash shop, but adults should be responisble for themselves. As soon as you decide for others what to do and how to do you crate civilization ofmindless victims, who don't want to take responsibility for their doings and blame everybody else for mistakes of their doing.

In short cartel packs == scam.

Everything is said.

if a game is allowed to have gambling then it needs to have age restrictions, especially where real cash is concerned.

these item boxes in free to play games are unhealthy for minors and it promotes very bad habits. If you want to piss ur money away as an adult fine, but this is immoral in terms of children. I don't see anything wrong with gambling but these "virtual slot machines" are not really right if the game is f2p to everyone.

mark my words, you'll see a story on the news, some kid steals mom's credit card and keeps buying "just one more cartel pack" and rings up her credit card for a thousand dollars. I am sure this happens already but you catch my drift...

Originally posted by Deewe

In short cartel packs == scam.

 

Everything is said.

It isn't a scam when you know exactly what you are buying and the purchase is completely optional driven by your own choice.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a scam.

Nobody in the game is required to buy cartel packs ... ever. 

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by ezpz77

I'd say that gambling packs are most definetly a sustainable business model. As long as they can keep churning them out, weak-willed individuals will shell out hundreds of dollars, or more, at the chance of winning it big. The trick is to make the stuff in them really desirable and rare. I fully expect to see more items added to these packs that give players a very obvious advantage in game.

I consider myself a pretty thrifty guy. I've never even played a poker game for cash, but years ago, I dropped about $150 on gambling packs in Atlantica Online (in one sitting.) By the time I got what I was after, I didn't even care about the item anymore. A few hours later, my wife ripped me a new ass, and that was the end of my gamblin' days, but they can be extremely effective. I wouldn't doubt for a second that EA is making a truckoad of cash off of them.

Yeah. Thats called addiction ;-) 

Could care less if there were gambling packs in the game.  I wont be using them.  Not for me to tell others not to waste money/time on them if it works for them.

I just want to play my character, which this doesnt interfere with at all.

 

Personally, I care about a wider situation more then just how it effects me and am aware that this model targets the wallets of vulnerable to make an uncapped amount of money from them.

Personally, I am not ok with that and I feel guilty if my gaming comes at such a cost to others.

Personally, I would prefer we all pay the same minimal amount and be spared manipulative unethical revenue models with hidden costs.

 

 

I understand.  Its just that you can't control someone else's action. At some point an individual has to be responsible for their own actions.  

Its like feeling guilty for eating because someone else in the world is starving.  How much do you take on?  Where do you draw the line?

I still feel we should pay for what we use.  The original MMO sub model back in the 90s existed because there were 1-2 MMOs and to support the model you had to pay a premium.  Fast forward like 20 years and MMOs are now mainstream like console games.  Why (only) offer the sub model?  It makes more business sense to be flexible.

Originally posted by Karteli

EA set the date for their next earnings call.  Just under 2 weeks from now.

http://investor.ea.com/events.cfm?list=Future

Future Event
Jan 30, 2013 2:00 PM PT	Electronic Arts Q3 2013 Earnings Conference Call

 

We'll get a glimpse of just how profittable the Cartel Market has been.  I'd give a free wager (har!) that it will be announced as a huge success, with some other spin about new free accounts and monetizing those free accounts to generate revenue.  .. Even though IMO most of the revenue is coming from subscribers spending more.

I suspect you will be right. The subscibers are the big spenders here and wherever I go.

I will expect your full report on this prior to Jan 30.

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

 

I appreciate your comment. I understand we are of different opinion here.

I believe in personal responsibility and I don't want anybody to decide for me what is good for me and what is bad. If I want to buy something in cash shop it is my decision, and my only. BioWare is not forcing me to do it. Somebody who looses all his money due gambling receives much better lesson then if you would just cut him out of it.  If you won't touch fire as a child you won't learn that you should avoid it.

Parents should be responsible for their kids in a game and it's their decision how to deal with cash shop, but adults should be responisble for themselves. As soon as you decide for others what to do and how to do you crate civilization ofmindless victims, who don't want to take responsibility for their doings and blame everybody else for mistakes of their doing.

Parents also have a responsibility in the choice of games their children play. TOR is rated "T",so children shouldn't be playing this game in the first place. It's my response to every "think about the children" statement. 

Sorry for the slight off, but the timing is perfect so I can't miss it:

LotRO is running a Lootbox Weekend right now with increased drop rates :)

(ok, it's actually sad...)

Originally posted by Sunscour
As a person who plays Magic the Gathering I understand all to well the appeal of "gambling packs". I have yet to buy anthing of the sort in any  MMO that I play, but I bet I will at some point....... Maybe...........?

oh god.... i play Magic for a month every 2-3 years. Then i remember why i quit playing. the $$$ spent adds up so fast.