Trending Games | ArcheAge | Elder Scrolls Online | Black Gold | Trove

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,774,288 Users Online:0
Games:720  Posts:6,188,327
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are We Getting Too Smart for MMOs?

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 Search
117 posts found
  Saerain

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/27/06
Posts: 943

1/21/13 4:51:24 AM#101
Originally posted by strangiato2112

I wish i was playing MMOs with people who were getting too smart.  Every time I see the use of words like derp or baddie, or view a converstaion in general/trade/glff/1-9/60/etc I feel like we are moving towards idiocracy.

Mike Judge is an MMORPG fan, maybe thats where he got his ispiration.

What you're seeing is, if anything, a broadening audience, and an improved ability to be exposed to that audience, rather than people actually getting dumber. IQs keep rising, as usual.

Favorites: EVE, VG, LotRO | Playing: None | Anticipating: SC, ED, TD, EQN, CU

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

1/21/13 5:01:21 AM#102

People these days are not happy with something that could have been better or even perfect. It's about evolution, we want to go forward and reach the limits.

If we take a look at GW2, it's a great game but it can improve ALOT and it will as ArenaNet is cosntantly adding new content and fixing their content. Creating content for all kinds of players.

Look at WoW, it went from unique and hardcore to easymode and casual. Was it good? partially. Endgame need to be harder, like it was in Vanilla and TBC,open world pvp features is needed(Castles sieges,politics etc), new crafting, new combat etc.

WoW has made very few evolutions while other new games made huge evolutions.

  bongloads

Novice Member

Joined: 8/17/08
Posts: 389

1/21/13 6:53:57 PM#103
Originally posted by Marcus-

Nope.

 

Just too picky. Which is fine. Get 10 MMO players in a room, and you'd probably get 9 different thoughts on an ideal MMO.

 

I also think (generally) peoples expectations of the latest and greatest MMO is just a bit too far fetched. 

 

/shrug

 

Originally posted by Trudge34
Doesn't help that there have been maps with a compass that show which way you're facing, trails and markers everywhere showing you where to go for every quest so you don't have to read the text at all and some companies even posting guides to the dungeons on their own website. I don't disagree that player made websites and walkthroughs have helped, but IMO a larger portion of the dumbing down has been built right into the game. 

 

Exactly my thoughts

  ecla2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/13
Posts: 5

You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building.

1/21/13 9:38:33 PM#104
Originally posted by fat_taddler

I watched an interesting video the other day regarding this topic.

I think it may explain to some extent why MMO's seem to feel "dumbed down"  to many players these days or why so many games only keep us engaged for a month or two at best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nl27rS-kM

 

Are we getting too smart?

 

Nope .. we're just as stupid as we ever were (or smart, take your pick).  However we do have

1) A lot more experience .. when we were 20 and the MMO age was beginning, folks in their 30s and 40s weren't playing these games as they did not exist.  Now, we're 30 (or 40 or whatever), and we do exist.  Yay, us "smart" guys.

2) Information age.  Google "google" and find out when it really started (lawl) if you care enough.

3) Game evolution.  Games with no compasses?  Body hunts?  PKers?  Remember when a walkthrough was a big deal, and people rushed to write game guides for the cred?

Exactly.

Overly-pretentious verbose narcissistic verbiage goes here

  shmashed

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/08
Posts: 14

1/21/13 11:24:04 PM#105
Originally posted by madazz

Google didn't ruin MMO's. You were always able to search for things. EQ and UO both had their respective sites. I used UO Stratics and a few other sites when I wanted to learn something or find out where it was. I tried not to abuse it though! Back then you had maps, locations, strategies, builds, everything that you have today. Today its the MMO's that hand it all to you is the difference. Either the game points me in the right direction, or it forces me into that direction. 

heheh, in Everquest for .....3 years at the very least, you couldn't tab out of the game to your internet browser without crashing the whole game.  Thats hardly the same.  MMOs anymore put in ways to run the stupid quest spoiler websites right within the game UI.

 

A lot of what made those games awesome and a tremendous experience was exactly as the OP said....there was just a lack of information.  No automatic data collection uploaded to a massive database, etc.  The games were also slower.  A regular npc would take a couple minutes to kill solo.  Mana/energy/hp regen took a lot longer so you could establish a social connection to your groupmates.  In SWTOR I would walk into a room and kill 5 npc with the push of a single button.  In it and other MMOs, my mana comes back almost instantly.  The action while dungeon crawling is such busywork, you cannot reasonably type a sentence to your groupmmates because you have 40 hotkeys to monitor and the fight is nonstop.  If you don't have teamspeak, no one will say anything for the entire quest/mission/whatever.

 

Every advancement in mmos seemingly has chipped away at what I thought made he genre great.  At the moment I love the change, but then I realize everyone will copy it and things will never be the same.  I remember in EQ1 my crazy guild had multiple marriages broken up due to people filling "med break" times with cybersex due to slow mana regen.  The same people would stay in the guild, and just end up with new men/women from within it. Wives would take off and move in with the guilds main tank because he is such a "manly man" with all of his hit points or maybe the bard because he was such a good puller and really kept the xp pace of a group up.  

Hahahaha....ahhh, good times.  Sad and pathetic but hilarious.  You will never find the same per capita level of drama and insanity from something like SWTOR/GW2, thats for certain.

  LauraFrost

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 91

1/22/13 12:28:36 AM#106
Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

IMO, same problem one more time: old days MMO were unique and NEW.

 

They were NEW but that's not the only thing that made them different.

If you cannot see the mechanics, features, design philosophy of these games that are NOT available in the market now then you probably never played MMORPGs prior to 2003.

 

It's a fact that there are features some of us demand that are no longer served in new MMORPGs. Very simple, it's a fact just deal with it. I want these features in ONE game (not more). I don't ask for things to stop being, I don't want to change anything. I just want what is NOT available in the market now. Call it vareity, and it's good.

 

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

1/22/13 3:25:36 AM#107
Originally posted by nariusseldon

The CM wizz point is to use frost nova to permanent lock-up the mobs. So to do that efficient, you need to max crit and attack speed. In fact, much of the guide as you to ignore DPS. Plus, sheet DPS is not true dps because different skills have different multiplers and the way that CM wiz works, you can get a high multiplier. The point is .. it is NOT using the same stat the same way as everyone else. In fact read the forums, it is not uncommon to sacrifice DPS for some other crucical stat. THere is a debate about how important life-steal is (personally i use none of it, but have a weapon with it for switching in some situation) in archon build.

And there are 13 slots for a character. 5 out of 13 is HUGE. Plus, those are just BIS. We are talking about different stat priority in ALL OF THEM. The same item with attack speed and crit chance will be valued highly by some build, and not at all by some other.

I think this is right on topic. It shows the depth of combat systems in modern games.

 

You still need to kill the mobs in any case, watch the 1m cm wiz gearing video to see what that looks like in mp10.

If you are really suggesting that 1% crit pants are always more beneficial than anything else, we are way in the area of ej enthusiasts, if you dont ask yourself with every item with +crit and +as "is it it really worth it?" past ~40% crit and ~2 a/s .

5 out of 13 is huge only in your book, moreover you have 6 affixes per item, in the end you will have all of the beneficial ones or generic affixes like +damage against elites, as i said before, the main point here is that you take these (for me) marginal differences as depth, while ignoring and brushing off past differences (if you have to watch your mana you will exp in a completely different zone than when you dont, like being meelee).

Flame on!

:)

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1271

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

1/22/13 6:59:27 AM#108

"Are We Getting Too Smart for MMOs?"

No, or we'd be able to design and sell PC's with graphics already installed to optimum that didn't strain the electricity bill.

  Indol

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 192

1/22/13 8:55:42 AM#109

Variation is the key. If you don't know what you'll face, you can't look it up and know for sure how to build/strategize/execute optimally.

 

The future of MMO's (hopefully) lies within not being able to predict what 'optimal' is at all.

 

Whether that involves more randomization or player controlled bosses or whatever, variation like this is a way to bring the magic of discovery and individualism back to MMO's.

 

Smart design goes a long way.

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1353

1/22/13 8:58:34 AM#110
No
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

1/22/13 12:47:38 PM#111
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by nariusseldon

The CM wizz point is to use frost nova to permanent lock-up the mobs. So to do that efficient, you need to max crit and attack speed. In fact, much of the guide as you to ignore DPS. Plus, sheet DPS is not true dps because different skills have different multiplers and the way that CM wiz works, you can get a high multiplier. The point is .. it is NOT using the same stat the same way as everyone else. In fact read the forums, it is not uncommon to sacrifice DPS for some other crucical stat. THere is a debate about how important life-steal is (personally i use none of it, but have a weapon with it for switching in some situation) in archon build.

And there are 13 slots for a character. 5 out of 13 is HUGE. Plus, those are just BIS. We are talking about different stat priority in ALL OF THEM. The same item with attack speed and crit chance will be valued highly by some build, and not at all by some other.

I think this is right on topic. It shows the depth of combat systems in modern games.

 

You still need to kill the mobs in any case, watch the 1m cm wiz gearing video to see what that looks like in mp10.

If you are really suggesting that 1% crit pants are always more beneficial than anything else, we are way in the area of ej enthusiasts, if you dont ask yourself with every item with +crit and +as "is it it really worth it?" past ~40% crit and ~2 a/s .

5 out of 13 is huge only in your book, moreover you have 6 affixes per item, in the end you will have all of the beneficial ones or generic affixes like +damage against elites, as i said before, the main point here is that you take these (for me) marginal differences as depth, while ignoring and brushing off past differences (if you have to watch your mana you will exp in a completely different zone than when you dont, like being meelee).

Flame on!

:)

You really misunderstood what "marginal" means.

If you compare a archon wiz and a CM wiz .. at the same gear level ...

the archon wiz will have 2x the sheet dps, and probably 2/3 the attack speed. Is 2x, and 2/3 marginal? I don't think so.

And when you are trying APOC with 10-20% of your DPS (which i actually was considering), that is not marginal either.

One more example. The important of life-steal, which you can only get on your main weapon (unless you are a barb, who can get on the belt).

I have to give up 60k dps .. that is roughly 20% .. to get one. It does make my toon 100x more survivable, but at a great loss of DPS. The solution is to keep two weapons. Now don't tell me you think 20% DPS is marginal ....

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

1/22/13 12:49:14 PM#112
Originally posted by Indol

Variation is the key. If you don't know what you'll face, you can't look it up and know for sure how to build/strategize/execute optimally.

 

The future of MMO's (hopefully) lies within not being able to predict what 'optimal' is at all.

 

Whether that involves more randomization or player controlled bosses or whatever, variation like this is a way to bring the magic of discovery and individualism back to MMO's.

 

Smart design goes a long way.

Nah ... the future is in the complexity of what "optimal" is. Look at all the theorycrafting and calculations. If everything is a wash, people will just do something random.

It is precisely because you can optimize, the game is interesting. Otherwise, why would i spend so much time balancing EHP (effective health), DPS, and other stats?

 

  Indol

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 192

1/22/13 1:19:08 PM#113
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Indol

Variation is the key. If you don't know what you'll face, you can't look it up and know for sure how to build/strategize/execute optimally.

 

The future of MMO's (hopefully) lies within not being able to predict what 'optimal' is at all.

 

Whether that involves more randomization or player controlled bosses or whatever, variation like this is a way to bring the magic of discovery and individualism back to MMO's.

 

Smart design goes a long way.

Nah ... the future is in the complexity of what "optimal" is. Look at all the theorycrafting and calculations. If everything is a wash, people will just do something random.

It is precisely because you can optimize, the game is interesting. Otherwise, why would i spend so much time balancing EHP (effective health), DPS, and other stats?

 

Ever increasing complexity in games is a dead end. At a certain threshold the game stops being a game.

Trust me, i've been through the whole calculations and spreadsheets phase. went on for years. I'm past that now and crave unpredictability and improvisation in games. At a certain point you realize that all the calculations and numbers in the world can't hide a predictable and monotonous game experience. That's how I feel at any rate.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

1/22/13 1:25:48 PM#114
Originally posted by Indol
ncing EHP (effective health), DPS, and other stats?

 

Ever increasing complexity in games is a dead end. At a certain threshold the game stops being a game.

Trust me, i've been through the whole calculations and spreadsheets phase. went on for years. I'm past that now and crave unpredictability and improvisation in games. At a certain point you realize that all the calculations and numbers in the world can't hide a predictable and monotonous game experience. That's how I feel at any rate.

May be you grow out of it .. but given the proliferation of youtube "how-to" videos, and all sort of theorycrafting tools (do you know how many EHP and DPS calculators are out there for just one game .. Diablo 3?), i doubt this is coming to an end soon.

If you just read the D3 forum, there is lots of discussion about game mechancis like do i need a 2.71 attack speed or 3.01 attack speed to lock up boss with cc at this particular MP level.

(BTW, the numbers are not random, they correspond to cut-point of getting an additional tick in a particular damage dealing skill .. people are VERY precise about ti).

There are also research on drop rates, and stuff like that. I saw the same thing in WOW. And i bet the same thing in other popular games.

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

1/22/13 1:40:07 PM#115

I crave new experiences. It's not about difficulty for me. It's about the unexpected. That's about it right now. A world that changes, throws things at me when I least expect it. Surprise me. Scare the crap out of me. Whatever!

I guess that's why ArcheAge is so appealing to me. It looks like a big adventure where lots of different things to do, lots of different possibilities. That's what I miss. The unexpected.

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/22/13 1:51:10 PM#116
Off to kill Orc #588277.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

1/22/13 4:43:17 PM#117
Originally posted by nariusseldon

You really misunderstood what "marginal" means.

If you compare a archon wiz and a CM wiz .. at the same gear level ...

the archon wiz will have 2x the sheet dps, and probably 2/3 the attack speed. Is 2x, and 2/3 marginal? I don't think so.

And when you are trying APOC with 10-20% of your DPS (which i actually was considering), that is not marginal either.

One more example. The important of life-steal, which you can only get on your main weapon (unless you are a barb, who can get on the belt).

I have to give up 60k dps .. that is roughly 20% .. to get one. It does make my toon 100x more survivable, but at a great loss of DPS. The solution is to keep two weapons. Now don't tell me you think 20% DPS is marginal ....

 

Well, define "gear level" :)

Problem is you will eventually not have to make these choices, sooner or later, players with top gear have ~50% cc, ~2.5 aps, 150-300k dps, 20apoc, 400-500k ehp. Even the top "sheet dps" players dont differ much.

The sheer nature of many affixes on many gear slots with the additive diminishing returns make stat focusing choices more and more meaningless as you progress further, and encourages players to gravitate towards the same items that break the overall system, like a slow onehander with extra base aps...

Flame on!

:)

 

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 Search