Trending Games | Darkest Dungeon | Elder Scrolls Online | Trove | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,772,442 Users Online:0
Games:720  Posts:6,187,423
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

Hardware  » Intel announces 7* W* Ivy Bridge* dual* cores

9 posts found
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13156

 
OP  1/15/13 11:33:00 AM#1

Okay, so the asterisks on the "Ivy Bridge" and "dual cores" aren't necessary.  But they sure are necessary on the 7 W bit.

Basically, Intel has had a 17 W bin of Ivy Bridge dual core chips out for quite a while.  They're used in high priced, low performance laptops such as Ultrabooks.  Actually, they might just be used in Ultrabooks, as the market for high price, low performance devices that are far less portable than tablets isn't terribly large.  Oh, also the Razer Edge, but that just repeats my point about "not terribly large" markets.

But if a bunch of chips can keep inside of a 17 W TDP, then you probably get a decent number of them that can stay inside of 13 W at further reduced clock speeds and voltages.  And there might even be a market of people willing to pay extra for less performance so that they can get a reduced power chip that would have great CPU performance for a tablet except that it runs way too hot for a tablet and has broken video drivers.  So naturally, Intel binned out some 13 W chips.

And then called them 7 W chips.  Apparently it an "SDP" of  7 W.  The technical definition of SDP is that whatever numbers the marketing department decides on are correct.  It's kind of like the nominal wattage on a power supply in that way.  Intel says it stands for "Scenario Design Power".

I think it's more appropriate to call it "Sometimes Design Power".  In other words, sometimes the chip will stay below 7 W at load.  So if you put it in a tablet that can only handle 7 W of heat dissipation, sometimes it won't overheat and fry.  But only sometimes.  The real TDP is 13 W, so you'd better have 13 W of cooling capability on hand.  Actually, you'd better just not put it in a tablet.

In fairness to Intel, they also have a real 10 W chip, the Pentium 2129Y, which also gets a Sometimes Design Power of 7 W.  That's a 1.1 GHz dual core with no hyperthreading and Intel HD Graphics--not HD 4000 or even HD 2500.  Oh, and the graphics are also clocked really low, and also lacks working video drivers.  But it's a budget chip, so it's $150.  The only somewhat budget friendly Core i3 version is $250.  Anyone get the idea that Intel doesn't actually want to sell very many of them?

Give it a few months and AMD will launch Kabini dual cores with a real TDP of 9 W, probably clocked somewhere around 1.7 GHz, which would leave them competitive with--and likely faster than-- the Pentium 2129Y.  Also, GCN graphics (probably 1 CU clocked around 500-600 MHz) with video drivers that actually work.  If AMD wanted to play the Sometimes Design Power game, they could claim that sometimes the chip only uses 5 W.  Or 3 W.  Or whatever number they decide on.  But AMD's marketing department is definitely aware of numbers smaller than 7.  But they'll probably just call it a TDP of 9 W and leave it at that, and point to Temash for lower power consumption.

  grndzro

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 1094

1/15/13 11:50:33 AM#2

Are thoes the ones that were actually more like 11-15 watts. I think there was an article stating that the 7w was at a paltry 800mhz when throttled down.

*edit* Yea I continued reading. U already said that :)

AMD's igp's could probably come close to that if they were throttled all the way down.

  proxy42086

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 29

1/15/13 11:54:35 AM#3
AMD they also stated they are pulling out of the cpu race with intel  and concentrate on wireless devices like phones
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5575

1/15/13 11:56:17 AM#4

What poked you about the crappy low end chips this morning?  It's good info to know though I suppose since marketing will tell us otherwise.

So apart from the junk Tegra 4 and these tablet chips is there anything interesting and exciting on the horizon?

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13156

 
OP  1/15/13 12:15:57 PM#5
Originally posted by proxy42086
AMD they also stated they are pulling out of the cpu race with intel  and concentrate on wireless devices like phones

Actually, AMD isn't making any chips targeted at phones.  Even the dual core version of Temash will be around 4 W, which is very tablet-friendly, but way too much for a phone.  I think AMD is waiting to see if Intel can get a foothold for x86 in the cell phone market.  If Intel fails (as is likely), then AMD wouldn't likely have succeeded either and will be glad they didn't waste the money on it.  If Intel succeeds in getting everything ported to x86, then AMD will probably make their own phone chips to compete.

AMD is putting more of a focus on low power cores such as their upcoming Jaguar cores.  But they could hardly put less of a focus on than they have traditionally when the first such small x86 AMD cores only launched about two years ago.  AMD says that they aren't trying to compete with Intel for top end x86 CPU performance, but that's really only because they can't.  From a marketing view, it sounds much better to say, "We didn't want to do X, but we did Y instead" than "We tried to do X and failed."  AMD is trying to convince people that their CPU performance is good enough even though it's not as good as Intel's, because if you decide that AMD's CPUs are good enough, then you're probably going to buy from AMD, as they have much better graphics than Intel, and also charge less.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13156

 
OP  1/15/13 12:23:32 PM#6
Originally posted by Torvaldr

What poked you about the crappy low end chips this morning?  It's good info to know though I suppose since marketing will tell us otherwise.

So apart from the junk Tegra 4 and these tablet chips is there anything interesting and exciting on the horizon?

CES was last week, so a lot of companies announced a lot of stuff.

AMD's upcoming Kabini will be a nifty chip if you're in the market for a netbook, as will Temash if you want a Windows-based tablet.  Just switching from ARM Cortex A9 cores to Cortex A15 will be a huge jump in CPU performance in tablets, regardless of what graphics you pair it with, and many Android tablets will make that jump this year.  If you want a budget gaming laptop or desktop running integrated graphics, then AMD's Richland should arrive any day now and will basically be Trinity with faster integrated graphics; Kaveri should arrive around the end of the year and have faster CPU cores as well.

If you want a super high end desktop video card, then cards based on Nvidia's upcoming GK110 chip should easily be the fastest on the market.  I expect the top bin to have an honest TDP of 300 W and cost about $800, though.

Apart from that, we'll be waiting until 2014 for interesting new stuff to come to gaming desktops or laptops--and not necessarily early 2014.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5071

1/15/13 12:25:03 PM#7
the whole 'they charge less' thing is the reason why all my computers have been amd ones.. at least as far as CPU's are concerned, but then my desktop gaming system is still running on an amd phenom I, 2.6 quad core
  grndzro

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 1094

1/15/13 4:09:52 PM#8
AMD could get into the mobil arms race very easily and sloughter Intel. Their GCN is Modular and would pair up with their Arm A15 liscence to make an APU very quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a complete package waiting to be sent to the foundry if they saw the need to do so.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13156

 
OP  1/15/13 5:58:48 PM#9
Originally posted by grndzro
AMD could get into the mobil arms race very easily and sloughter Intel. Their GCN is Modular and would pair up with their Arm A15 liscence to make an APU very quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if they already have a complete package waiting to be sent to the foundry if they saw the need to do so.

A given architecture will only scale up or down so far and still be any good.  The dual core version of Temash will probably be 1 CU clocked around 200-300 MHz, and that's about as low as their GCN architecture can reasonably go.  If AMD wanted to make a 2 W chip out of Jaguar+GCN, they probably could, but it would be a terrible 2 W chip and no cell phone manufacturer would want it.

But that's a lot lower than Nvidia's Kepler architecture will go.  Try to make a chip with 1 SMX and clock it low and you might end up pulling 10 W for the GPU alone.  You can do that just fine in a desktop or laptop, but it's a very bad idea in a tablet.

That's actually the problem that Intel is facing in trying to make ultra-low wattage Ivy Bridge chips.  Ivy Bridge is a great architecture if you want a 70 W chip or 50 W or 30 W.  But squeeze it down to 17 W and it isn't so great anymore.  At 10 W, it's downright mediocre.  10 W will be right in Kabini's wheelhouse, but if you want a 50 W chip, Jaguar cores will be mediocre at best and likely downright awful.

That's why companies make more than one architecture.  If you want a 50 W or 100 W chip, then AMD has Piledriver cores, which are decent.  If you want a 2 W chip, Intel offers Atom cores.  Intel actually doesn't have any good architectures for a 10 W chip, as that's higher than Atom can reasonably scale.  You can clock and volt and Atom chip higher to burn that much power, but performance trails far behind the older AMD Brazos, let alone Kabini.

We think of ARM as low power, but they play this game, too.  There are different degrees of low power.  Cortex A15 cores are nifty if you want a 5 W chip.  If you want 1 W, you can kind of do it with Cortex A15 cores, but Cortex A7 cores would be much better.  If you want 0.1 W, ARM would point you to their Cortex A4 cores.

The problem is that when designing a chip, there are a bunch of choices that you have to make.  How many cores, what memory standards, how wide of schedulers, which supported instructions, how much out-of-order scheduling, which process node, and so forth.  You can have choices A and B, and choice A is clearly better than choice B in a 50 W chip, and choice B is clearly better than choice A in a 5 W chip.  An architecture has to make one choice and go with it, as you can't have it both ways.