Originally posted by Camaro68

Originally posted by sadeyx

hmm,  so far its sold exactly half as many copies as diablo3 did on the first day xD,  Which is a pretty good indicator,  leveling alts, item hunting and acheivments in D3 just seems to be far more gratuitous.

Guildwars2 is neither an MMO nor a standalonge RPG resulting in a game that isnt very very good at either.   Great if your a person who is deeply conflicted about these gamyplay styles but not me.   I rather play either a thorough-bred MMO or a thorough-bred RPG.

The only people in my friends list that still play it are just people determined to prove the game is as good as they convinced themselves it would be during the hype.

The reality is, it was fun for a month but now is the time to accept it will never be the wow-killer, will never live up to the hype and look for something else.

 

 

That's the best summation of GW2 I've seen so far.  It lacks the immediate appeal of Diablo while exuding none of the depth of a good MMORPG.

I wonder though when a developer takes a huge financial risk like this if the extra million box sales early on are better than longterm sub revenue.  Are they obligated to maintain the game when player retention isn't necessary?

Guild wars 1 started off around 1-2 million sales for the first game went on to sell 7 million. i'd say that was worth the risk. Unlike most games, this revenue model sells repectably over time rather than the vast majority at the begining. Wouldn't be surprised for gw2 to sell over 10 million in a fair few years from now over several exapnsion.

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Camaro68

Originally posted by sadeyx

hmm,  so far its sold exactly half as many copies as diablo3 did on the first day xD,  Which is a pretty good indicator,  leveling alts, item hunting and acheivments in D3 just seems to be far more gratuitous.

Guildwars2 is neither an MMO nor a standalonge RPG resulting in a game that isnt very very good at either.   Great if your a person who is deeply conflicted about these gamyplay styles but not me.   I rather play either a thorough-bred MMO or a thorough-bred RPG.

The only people in my friends list that still play it are just people determined to prove the game is as good as they convinced themselves it would be during the hype.

The reality is, it was fun for a month but now is the time to accept it will never be the wow-killer, will never live up to the hype and look for something else.

 

 

That's the best summation of GW2 I've seen so far.  It lacks the immediate appeal of Diablo while exuding none of the depth of a good MMORPG.

I wonder though when a developer takes a huge financial risk like this if the extra million box sales early on are better than longterm sub revenue.  Are they obligated to maintain the game when player retention isn't necessary?

Guild wars 1 started off around 1-2 million sales for the first game went on to sell 7 million. i'd say that was worth the risk. Unlike most games, this revenue model sells repectably over time rather than the vast majority at the begining. Wouldn't be surprised for gw2 to sell over 10 million in a fair few years from now over several exapnsion.

the trouble with those figures are that it includes all the expansions, which in turn means that progressively fewer players bought each expansion. How good or bad player retention has been with GW2 will only really be revealed when the next expansion is released. Though there is also the return factor, which also happens in WoW oddly enough, where lapsed players will return for an expansion release, at least for a little while. Sales of the original GW2 game though, unlikely to exceed 4m even if you take that over the next 10 years, chances are, except for maybe a few stragglers, anyone who wanted it, has probably got it by now. So like GW1 before it, further sales will probably be solely reliant on expansion packs, which means the existing GW2 owners.

Originally posted by Phry

 How good or bad player retention has been with GW2 will only really be revealed when the next expansion is released. Though there is also the return factor, which also happens in WoW oddly enough, where lapsed players will return for an expansion release, at least for a little while.

doubt it

if GW2 follows the sales model of GW1

when the expansion is released -- I assume there will be bundled packages including the base game too

if you cannot differentiate new players from existing ones, you wont be able to assess retention

GW1 only had 1 expansion

all the other GW1 chapters w new content were standalone games that did not require the orginal game

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Camaro68

Originally posted by sadeyx

hmm,  so far its sold exactly half as many copies as diablo3 did on the first day xD,  Which is a pretty good indicator,  leveling alts, item hunting and acheivments in D3 just seems to be far more gratuitous.

Guildwars2 is neither an MMO nor a standalonge RPG resulting in a game that isnt very very good at either.   Great if your a person who is deeply conflicted about these gamyplay styles but not me.   I rather play either a thorough-bred MMO or a thorough-bred RPG.

The only people in my friends list that still play it are just people determined to prove the game is as good as they convinced themselves it would be during the hype.

The reality is, it was fun for a month but now is the time to accept it will never be the wow-killer, will never live up to the hype and look for something else.

 

 

That's the best summation of GW2 I've seen so far.  It lacks the immediate appeal of Diablo while exuding none of the depth of a good MMORPG.

I wonder though when a developer takes a huge financial risk like this if the extra million box sales early on are better than longterm sub revenue.  Are they obligated to maintain the game when player retention isn't necessary?

Guild wars 1 started off around 1-2 million sales for the first game went on to sell 7 million. i'd say that was worth the risk. Unlike most games, this revenue model sells repectably over time rather than the vast majority at the begining. Wouldn't be surprised for gw2 to sell over 10 million in a fair few years from now over several exapnsion.

the trouble with those figures are that it includes all the expansions, which in turn means that progressively fewer players bought each expansion. How good or bad player retention has been with GW2 will only really be revealed when the next expansion is released. Though there is also the return factor, which also happens in WoW oddly enough, where lapsed players will return for an expansion release, at least for a little while. Sales of the original GW2 game though, unlikely to exceed 4m even if you take that over the next 10 years, chances are, except for maybe a few stragglers, anyone who wanted it, has probably got it by now. So like GW1 before it, further sales will probably be solely reliant on expansion packs, which means the existing GW2 owners.

Actually that's not quite correct  it depends entirely on the expansion format for example all wow games required Wow in order to play and even the previous expansion. GW1 aside from 1 were standalone so the amount of people that actually bought the game could be a lot closer to the total sold than as potentially none of the people that say bought the original guild wars bought factions and vice versa of course that's not the case we don't know the break down but I know many people who have only bought one game from the series, or two. So the total number of people that actually bought gw1 is up in the air we only know an upper and a lower limit. It could be near the top of just under million or near the bottom of 1.75 million

Originally posted by Warband

 potentially none of the people that say bought the original guild wars bought factions and vice versa of course that's not the case we don't know the break down but I know many people who have only bought one game from the series, or two. So the total number of people that actually bought gw1 is up in the air we only know an upper and a lower limit. It could be near the top of just under million or near the bottom of 1.75 million

can read the old press releases from 2005 forward

http://guildwars.com/events/press/releases/

guild wars announced 2 million after factions released - what that means for old or new players is unknown

we do know accounts created by quarter for a 2 year period back in 2009

showing that many new players were buying the GW1 franchise

from Feb 2009 financials - is a summary of accounts created  (not boxes sold)

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/ncsoft-releases-quarterly-report-guild-t10355520.html?s=03c4de217efb063cd387c2af2fa6ac77&t=10355520

QTR / Accounts
Sep 2006 / 2,447,000
Dec 2006 / 3,122,000
Mar 2007 / 3,555,000
Jun 2007 / 3,917,000
Sep 2007 / 4,500,000
Dec 2007 / 4,878,000
Mar 2008 / 5,159,000
Jun 2008 / 5,377,000
Sep 2008 / 5,589,000
Dec 2008 / 5,803,000

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Phry

 How good or bad player retention has been with GW2 will only really be revealed when the next expansion is released. Though there is also the return factor, which also happens in WoW oddly enough, where lapsed players will return for an expansion release, at least for a little while.

doubt it

 

if GW2 follows the sales model of GW1

when the expansion is released -- I assume there will be bundled packages including the base game too

 

if you cannot differentiate new players from existing ones, you wont be able to assess retention

 

GW1 only had 1 expansion

all the other GW1 chapters w new content were standalone games that did not require the orginal game

GW2 wil NOT follow the GW1 model. They are for all intents and purpose, different games. GW1 was barely a mmorpg. GW2 is a full blown mmorpg even if people here disagree. And with that notion of GW2 being a flown blown mmorpg you WILL have to have the original to play any expansions that will directly add to it's existing base. In GW1 the cities were shared while the world was instanced. In GW2 the cities are shared as well as the world.

maybe im wrong

RIFT had Storm Legions and Storm Legions Infinity edition including base game

I'm expecting GW2 to do something similar

Didnt Diablo III sell like 9 million copies? I know it isn't an MMORPG but the payment model of the two are similar and both are action RPGs which do not have an offline component.

So for me 3 million copies is nothing special for a triple A RPG. If it was subscription based then yeah but it is not.

Originally posted by Yamota

Didnt Diablo III sell like 9 million copies? I know it isn't an MMORPG but the payment model of the two are similar and both are action RPGs which do not have an offline component.

So for me 3 million copies is nothing special for a triple A RPG. If it was subscription based then yeah but it is not.

using the same argument - could say 3 million is nothing special for PC gaming

D3 made world history for all PC Gaming with their millions

regardless, as I posted earlier,

what is special is GW2 is still selling well

GW2 sold over a million from October 2012 forward --- 6 weeks after release

I really like GW2 though I started playing it late and didn't expect it to be as good as it is...  See what I appreciate are some of the little touches.  For instance: it promotes playing with friends; as in you don't have to have equal level characters to play with friends.  It also has the best character customization features of any MMO I've ever played.  So though the game plays like most other MMOs, except maybe Tera, in regard to combat.  I still enjoy it.  

By comparison the Secret War is a buggy PoS.  It features regular, frequent, disconnects from the server during prime time. Where it puts you in a different instance from your team-mate/s.  I has an abundance of "solo only" mission instances.  And in an attempt to "Make you Think" it features some of the most obscure mission elements of all time (which backfires and makes you alt tab out to go check google for a walkthrough...).  Eventually I decided it was completely lacking in content. Such that it became a true exercise in frustration.  Because completing every mission in a zone does not really prepare you for the difficulty of the next zone.  So after struggling with it for about 6 weeks I'm happy retreat to GW2.

I guess my point is that none of these games live in a vacuum.  In light of that statement I'd say that some people will prefer the glamor of a full tilt theme park like SWTOR (I know I thought I would...).  Others want lots of difficulty to stimulate some "sense of danger".  And others still want some sense that they have nothing invested in a game, except time played.  No game is likely to be all things to all people.  I'm just glad a game like GW2 is available for me to enjoy.

One shall also notice that despite the raw hatred shown towards this game on these forums, GW2 is still the Top Voted game of this site. If anything, it proves that the minority of very vocal haters on the forums aren't representative of the majority of people coming to this website.

But I guess some people just lack courage in real life so that they have to be nuisances on web forums hidden behind a screen where there's no consequences for being annoying, or just have a so boring real life that they have to come here to get some illusion of importance by posting misinformation and nonsense about video games they dislike.

Originally posted by Yamota

Didnt Diablo III sell like 9 million copies? I know it isn't an MMORPG but the payment model of the two are similar and both are action RPGs which do not have an offline component.

So for me 3 million copies is nothing special for a triple A RPG. If it was subscription based then yeah but it is not.

That is like saying Ronaldo isn't special because Messi is better.

And of course triple AAA RPGs you have Diablo and erm, Diablo.

Yeah, when you talk about GW2 you have to compare it to the most successful PC Games in history.

One doesn't need to do that when talking about crap.

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Camaro68

Originally posted by sadeyx

hmm,  so far its sold exactly half as many copies as diablo3 did on the first day xD,  Which is a pretty good indicator,  leveling alts, item hunting and acheivments in D3 just seems to be far more gratuitous.

Guildwars2 is neither an MMO nor a standalonge RPG resulting in a game that isnt very very good at either.   Great if your a person who is deeply conflicted about these gamyplay styles but not me.   I rather play either a thorough-bred MMO or a thorough-bred RPG.

The only people in my friends list that still play it are just people determined to prove the game is as good as they convinced themselves it would be during the hype.

The reality is, it was fun for a month but now is the time to accept it will never be the wow-killer, will never live up to the hype and look for something else.

 

 

That's the best summation of GW2 I've seen so far.  It lacks the immediate appeal of Diablo while exuding none of the depth of a good MMORPG.

I wonder though when a developer takes a huge financial risk like this if the extra million box sales early on are better than longterm sub revenue.  Are they obligated to maintain the game when player retention isn't necessary?

Guild wars 1 started off around 1-2 million sales for the first game went on to sell 7 million. i'd say that was worth the risk. Unlike most games, this revenue model sells repectably over time rather than the vast majority at the begining. Wouldn't be surprised for gw2 to sell over 10 million in a fair few years from now over several exapnsion.

I wouldn't use GW1 as a metric for anything in today's market.  In it's day there were practically zero F2P MMOs and they capitalized on that.  Things are MUCH different now.

Originally posted by Yamota

Didnt Diablo III sell like 9 million copies? I know it isn't an MMORPG but the payment model of the two are similar and both are action RPGs which do not have an offline component.

So for me 3 million copies is nothing special for a triple A RPG. If it was subscription based then yeah but it is not.

You are comparing one of the most beloved action RPG IP of all time with millions upon millions of Diablo and Diablo2 fans across the world with Guild Wars 2?

With your logic then many facebook games are FAAAAAR better than any PC game ever made due to how many play them

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Camaro68

Originally posted by sadeyx

hmm,  so far its sold exactly half as many copies as diablo3 did on the first day xD,  Which is a pretty good indicator,  leveling alts, item hunting and acheivments in D3 just seems to be far more gratuitous.

Guildwars2 is neither an MMO nor a standalonge RPG resulting in a game that isnt very very good at either.   Great if your a person who is deeply conflicted about these gamyplay styles but not me.   I rather play either a thorough-bred MMO or a thorough-bred RPG.

The only people in my friends list that still play it are just people determined to prove the game is as good as they convinced themselves it would be during the hype.

The reality is, it was fun for a month but now is the time to accept it will never be the wow-killer, will never live up to the hype and look for something else.

 

 

That's the best summation of GW2 I've seen so far.  It lacks the immediate appeal of Diablo while exuding none of the depth of a good MMORPG.

I wonder though when a developer takes a huge financial risk like this if the extra million box sales early on are better than longterm sub revenue.  Are they obligated to maintain the game when player retention isn't necessary?

Guild wars 1 started off around 1-2 million sales for the first game went on to sell 7 million. i'd say that was worth the risk. Unlike most games, this revenue model sells repectably over time rather than the vast majority at the begining. Wouldn't be surprised for gw2 to sell over 10 million in a fair few years from now over several exapnsion.

I wouldn't use GW1 as a metric for anything in today's market.  In it's day there were practically zero F2P MMOs and they capitalized on that.  Things are MUCH different now.

Also as a comparison,  GW1 sold 7 million total - but that included ALL expansions.. which again,  meant  that since they release what.. 4 copies total?  Even and including that they packaged them all in after factions for the same price as the standalone... the sales revenue decreases per sale over time.    

Thats why the B2P model is a little misleading the way GW does it,  as with subscriptions, you could say "I have 200K subscribers"  and GW2 would say.. "We sold 7M boxes" .... who comes out ahead in this scenario?   Could you imagine the difference if WoW touted boxes sold instead of active subscribers?

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Camaro68

Originally posted by sadeyx

hmm,  so far its sold exactly half as many copies as diablo3 did on the first day xD,  Which is a pretty good indicator,  leveling alts, item hunting and acheivments in D3 just seems to be far more gratuitous.

Guildwars2 is neither an MMO nor a standalonge RPG resulting in a game that isnt very very good at either.   Great if your a person who is deeply conflicted about these gamyplay styles but not me.   I rather play either a thorough-bred MMO or a thorough-bred RPG.

The only people in my friends list that still play it are just people determined to prove the game is as good as they convinced themselves it would be during the hype.

The reality is, it was fun for a month but now is the time to accept it will never be the wow-killer, will never live up to the hype and look for something else.

 

 

That's the best summation of GW2 I've seen so far.  It lacks the immediate appeal of Diablo while exuding none of the depth of a good MMORPG.

I wonder though when a developer takes a huge financial risk like this if the extra million box sales early on are better than longterm sub revenue.  Are they obligated to maintain the game when player retention isn't necessary?

Guild wars 1 started off around 1-2 million sales for the first game went on to sell 7 million. i'd say that was worth the risk. Unlike most games, this revenue model sells repectably over time rather than the vast majority at the begining. Wouldn't be surprised for gw2 to sell over 10 million in a fair few years from now over several exapnsion.

I wouldn't use GW1 as a metric for anything in today's market.  In it's day there were practically zero F2P MMOs and they capitalized on that.  Things are MUCH different now.

Yeap - they sold the triple in the same time.

Much different.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by Warband

Originally posted by Camaro68

Originally posted by sadeyx

hmm,  so far its sold exactly half as many copies as diablo3 did on the first day xD,  Which is a pretty good indicator,  leveling alts, item hunting and acheivments in D3 just seems to be far more gratuitous.

Guildwars2 is neither an MMO nor a standalonge RPG resulting in a game that isnt very very good at either.   Great if your a person who is deeply conflicted about these gamyplay styles but not me.   I rather play either a thorough-bred MMO or a thorough-bred RPG.

The only people in my friends list that still play it are just people determined to prove the game is as good as they convinced themselves it would be during the hype.

The reality is, it was fun for a month but now is the time to accept it will never be the wow-killer, will never live up to the hype and look for something else.

 

 

That's the best summation of GW2 I've seen so far.  It lacks the immediate appeal of Diablo while exuding none of the depth of a good MMORPG.

I wonder though when a developer takes a huge financial risk like this if the extra million box sales early on are better than longterm sub revenue.  Are they obligated to maintain the game when player retention isn't necessary?

Guild wars 1 started off around 1-2 million sales for the first game went on to sell 7 million. i'd say that was worth the risk. Unlike most games, this revenue model sells repectably over time rather than the vast majority at the begining. Wouldn't be surprised for gw2 to sell over 10 million in a fair few years from now over several exapnsion.

I wouldn't use GW1 as a metric for anything in today's market.  In it's day there were practically zero F2P MMOs and they capitalized on that.  Things are MUCH different now.

Actually guild was1 still sold well in spite of that. the game only reach 7 million recently, and was only at 6 million a few years ago about well over 3 to be expect. f2p mmo's have been out at least as long and it stll managed to sell an extra million spite of that, despte the last game beein released 4-5 years ago. Considering this is a new game with fai more recognition due to being a highly rated and decent selling sequel it should be fine. It's already showing some signs of legs.