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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Space combat- a failure?

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145 posts found
  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 916

1/15/13 2:55:43 PM#61
Originally posted by ktanner3

Sorry, but you lose me the moment you start saying that TOR is WOW2. TOR is nothing like WOW. 

It's funny. Some people like saying that TOR is WOW2 while others say it sucks because it doesn't have enough WOW features. Got to love the internet . :)

I said that I wish they had said repeatedly "This is not going to be WoW2".

SWTOR mimicked WoW's core features such as; raid focus, gear grind, battlegrounds... you can see it's imprint in many aspects of the game.  They used WoW as a blueprint to make their MMO - they outright told us this during development.  Just because Luke isn't in it doesn't mean it's not a Star Wars game.
  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4142

Trolls will be ignored

1/15/13 3:08:23 PM#62
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by ktanner3

Sorry, but you lose me the moment you start saying that TOR is WOW2. TOR is nothing like WOW. 

It's funny. Some people like saying that TOR is WOW2 while others say it sucks because it doesn't have enough WOW features. Got to love the internet . :)

I said that I wish they had said repeatedly "This is not going to be WoW2".

SWTOR mimicked WoW's core features such as; raid focus, gear grind, battlegrounds... you can see it's imprint in many aspects of the game.  They used WoW as a blueprint to make their MMO - they outright told us this during development.  

Raids have been a common feature of MMOs since Anarchy Online. I realize that WOW might have been your first MMO but Blizzard merely used what had already been in MMOs and perfected it. 

Just because Luke isn't in it doesn't mean it's not a Star Wars game.

Who said it wasn't a Star Wars game?

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

1/15/13 3:12:27 PM#63
I'm not going to pull the direct quote, someone else can if they are so inclined, because I'm lazy; but one of the chief Bioware muckity mucks prior to launch stated that they used WoW as a touchstone for game design because to not do so would be folly.
  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/15/13 3:12:58 PM#64
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones They didn't keep the SWG space combat system because SWToR isn't SWG2. It's a completely different game. The space combat in SWToR was one of the better elements of the game. It fit into the game's other "theme park" elements of the game just fine.
SWTOR is meant to be a MMO, not a single player game, which SWTORs space combat system is.

 

STO is not the same as SWG, but it managed to provide a better MULTIPLAYER space game in a MMO than SWTOR. The game also did not take so long to make, or cost as much.

SWG was just too awesome, you could have more than yourself piloting the ship, and have other players manning your guns. SWGs JTL was the ultimate online space game, and no other game or MMO does this at all, not even STO or EVE

I suppose SWTOR space game is better than there being none, and just cutscenes instead, although that could have been pretty awesome actually, considering the gameplay is on rails and you do not have full control.

The space game in SWTOR would have been better if they added in more DIFFERENT missions, instead of Republic AND Empire having the same missions, and then as you get further, you get the same missions AGAIN, but harder, when they should have done DIFFERENT AND HARDER missions. It was just lazy what was done, and players get tired of it a lot lot quicker.

 




SWToR was meant to be exactly what it was. The rest of the game allowed for a single player focus, so there's no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the space game. It was a mini-game that fit the rest of the game. Of all the things they could put a ton of time and resources into, space missions isn't one of the things that's going to get them any mileage because the entire rest of the game would still be there.

Ugly and just staring at you with one bloodshot, baleful eye. It would have an awesome hat, known as "Character Story Lines", and maybe a really nice briefcase, known as "Space Missions", but otherwise it would be dressed in trailer park chic. Turning the briefcase into a nice cane or monocle wouldn't make the rest of it any less ugly.

 

SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, not a single player game like ME3 with multiplayer. If it was like ME3 then single player space would have been what it was meant to be.

They should have incorporated space into the story, and made the space and space combat as cut scenes like the rest of the game.

What they have done has all backfired as now they have less SUBBED players than SWG had (although has way more FREE players though)

  pioneer08

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 119

1/15/13 3:26:03 PM#65
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones They didn't keep the SWG space combat system because SWToR isn't SWG2. It's a completely different game. The space combat in SWToR was one of the better elements of the game. It fit into the game's other "theme park" elements of the game just fine.
SWTOR is meant to be a MMO, not a single player game, which SWTORs space combat system is.

 

STO is not the same as SWG, but it managed to provide a better MULTIPLAYER space game in a MMO than SWTOR. The game also did not take so long to make, or cost as much.

SWG was just too awesome, you could have more than yourself piloting the ship, and have other players manning your guns. SWGs JTL was the ultimate online space game, and no other game or MMO does this at all, not even STO or EVE

I suppose SWTOR space game is better than there being none, and just cutscenes instead, although that could have been pretty awesome actually, considering the gameplay is on rails and you do not have full control.

The space game in SWTOR would have been better if they added in more DIFFERENT missions, instead of Republic AND Empire having the same missions, and then as you get further, you get the same missions AGAIN, but harder, when they should have done DIFFERENT AND HARDER missions. It was just lazy what was done, and players get tired of it a lot lot quicker.

 




SWToR was meant to be exactly what it was. The rest of the game allowed for a single player focus, so there's no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the space game. It was a mini-game that fit the rest of the game. Of all the things they could put a ton of time and resources into, space missions isn't one of the things that's going to get them any mileage because the entire rest of the game would still be there.

Ugly and just staring at you with one bloodshot, baleful eye. It would have an awesome hat, known as "Character Story Lines", and maybe a really nice briefcase, known as "Space Missions", but otherwise it would be dressed in trailer park chic. Turning the briefcase into a nice cane or monocle wouldn't make the rest of it any less ugly.

 

SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, not a single player game like ME3 with multiplayer. If it was like ME3 then single player space would have been what it was meant to be.

They should have incorporated space into the story, and made the space and space combat as cut scenes like the rest of the game.

What they have done has all backfired as now they have less SUBBED players than SWG had (although has way more FREE players though)

 

Hmm swtor is not an mmo? Really well I take it you have never played it. Just to educate you a little bit here I will name just a few aspects that make it a very good mmo. Alright here we go....a great story, heroic area *that require you to group with other players, guilds *you join with other players, crafting items that you *sell to other players on the gtn, world bosses *that you need other players to take down, flaspoints *that you run with other players, ops *that you run with other players, datacron hunting *some you need *other players to get, pvp where you group *with other player to fight *other players. Well hope you can now understand this is a mmo not a single player game.
  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 916

1/15/13 4:04:14 PM#66
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by ktanner3

Sorry, but you lose me the moment you start saying that TOR is WOW2. TOR is nothing like WOW. 

It's funny. Some people like saying that TOR is WOW2 while others say it sucks because it doesn't have enough WOW features. Got to love the internet . :)

I said that I wish they had said repeatedly "This is not going to be WoW2".

SWTOR mimicked WoW's core features such as; raid focus, gear grind, battlegrounds... you can see it's imprint in many aspects of the game.  They used WoW as a blueprint to make their MMO - they outright told us this during development.  

Raids have been a common feature of MMOs since Anarchy Online. I realize that WOW might have been your first MMO but Blizzard merely used what had already been in MMOs and perfected it. 

Just because Luke isn't in it doesn't mean it's not a Star Wars game.

Who said it wasn't a Star Wars game?

FFS do we have to go there?  Despite your childish remark it doesn't change the fact that WoW HAS raiding and SWTOR added a raiding system to be like WoW, not AO.

World of Warcraft pulled all the cool features from other MMOs and made the popular.  Since then no other developer has approached MMOs with a completely open mind.  We may get a few innovations but they keep trying to do the same thing over and over.  No one ever sat down and said, "Hey, what's some cool content we can design for a large group of players that will challenge them mentally, encourage team work and reward them for their efforts."

Oh, I was testing your ability for abstract thought with the Luke comment... that and teasing you for misquoting me.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10377

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/15/13 4:32:55 PM#67


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones They didn't keep the SWG space combat system because SWToR isn't SWG2. It's a completely different game. The space combat in SWToR was one of the better elements of the game. It fit into the game's other "theme park" elements of the game just fine.
SWTOR is meant to be a MMO, not a single player game, which SWTORs space combat system is.   STO is not the same as SWG, but it managed to provide a better MULTIPLAYER space game in a MMO than SWTOR. The game also did not take so long to make, or cost as much. SWG was just too awesome, you could have more than yourself piloting the ship, and have other players manning your guns. SWGs JTL was the ultimate online space game, and no other game or MMO does this at all, not even STO or EVE I suppose SWTOR space game is better than there being none, and just cutscenes instead, although that could have been pretty awesome actually, considering the gameplay is on rails and you do not have full control. The space game in SWTOR would have been better if they added in more DIFFERENT missions, instead of Republic AND Empire having the same missions, and then as you get further, you get the same missions AGAIN, but harder, when they should have done DIFFERENT AND HARDER missions. It was just lazy what was done, and players get tired of it a lot lot quicker.  
SWToR was meant to be exactly what it was. The rest of the game allowed for a single player focus, so there's no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the space game. It was a mini-game that fit the rest of the game. Of all the things they could put a ton of time and resources into, space missions isn't one of the things that's going to get them any mileage because the entire rest of the game would still be there. Ugly and just staring at you with one bloodshot, baleful eye. It would have an awesome hat, known as "Character Story Lines", and maybe a really nice briefcase, known as "Space Missions", but otherwise it would be dressed in trailer park chic. Turning the briefcase into a nice cane or monocle wouldn't make the rest of it any less ugly.  
SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, not a single player game like ME3 with multiplayer. If it was like ME3 then single player space would have been what it was meant to be.

They should have incorporated space into the story, and made the space and space combat as cut scenes like the rest of the game.

What they have done has all backfired as now they have less SUBBED players than SWG had (although has way more FREE players though)




SWToR was an MMO. Just not a good one.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  superniceguy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2251

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/15/13 6:25:05 PM#68
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones They didn't keep the SWG space combat system because SWToR isn't SWG2. It's a completely different game. The space combat in SWToR was one of the better elements of the game. It fit into the game's other "theme park" elements of the game just fine.
SWTOR is meant to be a MMO, not a single player game, which SWTORs space combat system is.   STO is not the same as SWG, but it managed to provide a better MULTIPLAYER space game in a MMO than SWTOR. The game also did not take so long to make, or cost as much. SWG was just too awesome, you could have more than yourself piloting the ship, and have other players manning your guns. SWGs JTL was the ultimate online space game, and no other game or MMO does this at all, not even STO or EVE I suppose SWTOR space game is better than there being none, and just cutscenes instead, although that could have been pretty awesome actually, considering the gameplay is on rails and you do not have full control. The space game in SWTOR would have been better if they added in more DIFFERENT missions, instead of Republic AND Empire having the same missions, and then as you get further, you get the same missions AGAIN, but harder, when they should have done DIFFERENT AND HARDER missions. It was just lazy what was done, and players get tired of it a lot lot quicker.  
SWToR was meant to be exactly what it was. The rest of the game allowed for a single player focus, so there's no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the space game. It was a mini-game that fit the rest of the game. Of all the things they could put a ton of time and resources into, space missions isn't one of the things that's going to get them any mileage because the entire rest of the game would still be there. Ugly and just staring at you with one bloodshot, baleful eye. It would have an awesome hat, known as "Character Story Lines", and maybe a really nice briefcase, known as "Space Missions", but otherwise it would be dressed in trailer park chic. Turning the briefcase into a nice cane or monocle wouldn't make the rest of it any less ugly.  
SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, not a single player game like ME3 with multiplayer. If it was like ME3 then single player space would have been what it was meant to be.

 

They should have incorporated space into the story, and made the space and space combat as cut scenes like the rest of the game.

What they have done has all backfired as now they have less SUBBED players than SWG had (although has way more FREE players though)




SWToR was an MMO. Just not a good one.

 

Exactly, and that is why the space game is a failure, and SWTOR is not what it was meant to be, as a MMO is Massively Multiplayer focussed, not single player focussed which you claim it was.

  aRtFuLThinG

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

1/15/13 6:53:14 PM#69
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by ktanner3

Sorry, but you lose me the moment you start saying that TOR is WOW2. TOR is nothing like WOW. 

It's funny. Some people like saying that TOR is WOW2 while others say it sucks because it doesn't have enough WOW features. Got to love the internet . :)

I said that I wish they had said repeatedly "This is not going to be WoW2".

SWTOR mimicked WoW's core features such as; raid focus, gear grind, battlegrounds... you can see it's imprint in many aspects of the game.  They used WoW as a blueprint to make their MMO - they outright told us this during development.  

Raids have been a common feature of MMOs since Anarchy Online.

 Yeah but battlegrounds and gear grind through questing/badges via vendor isn't. AO was all about world/objective pvp. AO's best gear came from looted components combined through crafting. AO mostly uses randomly generated missions. AO have mixed level zones.

 

Swtor pretty much got all it's ideas from WoW (but then again so has a myriad of the current generation of MMOs).

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2608

110100100

1/15/13 10:38:38 PM#70


Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Yeah but battlegrounds and gear grind through questing/badges via vendor isn't. AO was all about world/objective pvp. AO's best gear came from looted components combined through crafting. AO mostly uses randomly generated missions. AO have mixed level zones.

 

Swtor pretty much got all it's ideas from WoW (but then again so has a myriad of the current generation of MMOs).


wow wasn't the first game to include raids and battlegrounds in their game.

the badges change nothing as they are a mechanic to ensure you get the upgrades you want rather than mindlessly grinding the same dungeons and never getting the piece you need.

that said, yes SWTOR is a wow clone. it goes far beyond the fact that tor has raids and battlegrounds like wow.

take talents for example, not only does tor have them but they directly ripped off wow's talent trees and incorporated them into their game.

a lot of the same talents just with different names. i told people that were interested in playing this well before launch that if you have a problem with this game being a lot like wow then you better not buy it.

this game obviously offers content wow doesn't have but it is the very essence of what a wow clone is.

swtor is a wow clone, anyone stating otherwise is kidding themselves.

by the way, i am a current tor subscriber and haven't played wow in well over two years.


  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2608

110100100

1/15/13 10:48:34 PM#71


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones They didn't keep the SWG space combat system because SWToR isn't SWG2. It's a completely different game. The space combat in SWToR was one of the better elements of the game. It fit into the game's other "theme park" elements of the game just fine.
SWTOR is meant to be a MMO, not a single player game, which SWTORs space combat system is.   STO is not the same as SWG, but it managed to provide a better MULTIPLAYER space game in a MMO than SWTOR. The game also did not take so long to make, or cost as much. SWG was just too awesome, you could have more than yourself piloting the ship, and have other players manning your guns. SWGs JTL was the ultimate online space game, and no other game or MMO does this at all, not even STO or EVE I suppose SWTOR space game is better than there being none, and just cutscenes instead, although that could have been pretty awesome actually, considering the gameplay is on rails and you do not have full control. The space game in SWTOR would have been better if they added in more DIFFERENT missions, instead of Republic AND Empire having the same missions, and then as you get further, you get the same missions AGAIN, but harder, when they should have done DIFFERENT AND HARDER missions. It was just lazy what was done, and players get tired of it a lot lot quicker.  
SWToR was meant to be exactly what it was. The rest of the game allowed for a single player focus, so there's no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the space game. It was a mini-game that fit the rest of the game. Of all the things they could put a ton of time and resources into, space missions isn't one of the things that's going to get them any mileage because the entire rest of the game would still be there. Ugly and just staring at you with one bloodshot, baleful eye. It would have an awesome hat, known as "Character Story Lines", and maybe a really nice briefcase, known as "Space Missions", but otherwise it would be dressed in trailer park chic. Turning the briefcase into a nice cane or monocle wouldn't make the rest of it any less ugly.  
SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, not a single player game like ME3 with multiplayer. If it was like ME3 then single player space would have been what it was meant to be.

They should have incorporated space into the story, and made the space and space combat as cut scenes like the rest of the game.

What they have done has all backfired as now they have less SUBBED players than SWG had (although has way more FREE players though)


what you are suggesting would not have saved tor. making space a part of the game world and not a mini game would not have done much to keep players playing.

the issue IMO is the fact that the game is single player focused with its story content.

not only is that not healthy for an mmo community (because you are not working with other players) but its also impossible to keep turning out new story content at a rate that is necessary to keep people interested.

space story content and the fact you can fly around wouldn't do too much to change that.


  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

1/16/13 6:16:37 AM#72
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by NeoCroX997

I would like to hear what you think about swtor space combat as it is now. When I played star wars galaxies it was one of the greatest combat system in a mmo. Now they swtor´s slight different, but they still keep some parts like upgrading the ship.

Question is why have they not kept the SWG space battle system. It would be the greatest! With pvp and spaceship controll. As it is now, I find it dull to play space missions and rather avoid it. Even for the good xp. For now the ship moves by it self and you only have to aim. Well some say it is relaxing to do something else and take a break from the mmo, but common. That idea from SWG was brilliant and worked well. I spent days only playing space combat in that game the old days and have to say even with the older graphic, it still was the best gameplay. A bit shame they brought this instead and make it look like a "mario" game instead. Could have been so much better and with their experience, almost a dissappointment. Looked really forward to it. But the good thingd about it, is the mini game is actionpaced and fast. Nothing more.

So how do you think about it. How would the perfect space game for star wars look like for you ?

 

 

Bioware can't keep anything it never had. This isn't SWG 2, nor should it be compared to SWG. Bioware is a totally different company with different strengths. Name one game Bioware has made that revolved around space combat? Bioware's strength is in storytelling, with dialogue options, and an alignment system. I don't know why anyone would expect a deep space combat system from Bioware judging by their previous game release.

While I liked SWG's Jump to Light Speed expansion, I could really care less about space combat in SWTOR. Not unless they released Republic and Empire Pilots as a class that revolved around that aspect of Star Wars. I'd rather see Bioware concentrate on their strengths and develop more class based stories, or stories of equivalent or better quality for the Empire and Republic as a whole. I want them to develop the story and move the game forward. The timeline for this game hasn't advanced one bit since release and that's sad. Screw space combat until they get a good development schedule for more story going.

This. I always felt they should have left the space fighting for an expansion so that it could be done right.Space is a whole other game in and of itself and Bioware would have been better leaving it out and using those resources in other parts of the game eg: Ilum. 

Shall we give them a chance at Space adventure?  I mean, they could try to fix Ilum, but EA already tried that and it flopped because of design incompetence / game archetecture flaws (engine).  If EA develops a new engine for something it may as well be for Space, just for fair-ups?  If space fails, I'll side with you that they should try to fix Ilum.

 

If Ilum fails again, then back to Space? /agreed

 

 

Don't you think Bioware should stick to their strengths? Bioware isn't known ever for creating space simulation type of games. They're know for crafting good stories with multiple endings. They're not known for PvP either, although I think their warzones are decently made. Their engine really is too bad to create an open world PvP planet though, so they should shelve that idea completely.

If they had any proof of talent to create such a thing akin to the Jump to Light Speed question, then I might sing a different tune. Until then, I think they should expand upon the story on a regular basis, quarterly for sure.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

1/16/13 6:22:16 AM#73
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by ktanner3

Sorry, but you lose me the moment you start saying that TOR is WOW2. TOR is nothing like WOW. 

It's funny. Some people like saying that TOR is WOW2 while others say it sucks because it doesn't have enough WOW features. Got to love the internet . :)

I said that I wish they had said repeatedly "This is not going to be WoW2".

SWTOR mimicked WoW's core features such as; raid focus, gear grind, battlegrounds... you can see it's imprint in many aspects of the game.  They used WoW as a blueprint to make their MMO - they outright told us this during development.  

Raids have been a common feature of MMOs since Anarchy Online. I realize that WOW might have been your first MMO but Blizzard merely used what had already been in MMOs and perfected it. 

Just because Luke isn't in it doesn't mean it's not a Star Wars game.

Who said it wasn't a Star Wars game?

SWTOR definitely copies WoW's formula. Before WoW, the following formula didn't exist:

Solo questing with optional group quests until max level + instanced non-persistant battlegrounds + instant dungeons + instanced small sized raids + gear grind + dailies = WoW model.

When WoW came out with that formula, the formula was fresh and well received. The problem came when almost every developer made that formula a staple for the genre.

  User Deleted
1/16/13 6:23:46 AM#74
Originally posted by nate1980

Don't you think Bioware should stick to their strengths? Bioware isn't known ever for creating space simulation type of games. They're know for crafting good stories with multiple endings. They're not known for PvP either, although I think their warzones are decently made. Their engine really is too bad to create an open world PvP planet though, so they should shelve that idea completely.

If they had any proof of talent to create such a thing akin to the Jump to Light Speed question, then I might sing a different tune. Until then, I think they should expand upon the story on a regular basis, quarterly for sure.

The only story they will expand comes  one and a half years after launch in paid content update, and not even class stories but bland generic MMO quests like other planets.

So dont hold your breath.

Though you can gamble with RL money for some recolored stuff in gambling packs.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

1/16/13 6:39:10 AM#75
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by nate1980

Don't you think Bioware should stick to their strengths? Bioware isn't known ever for creating space simulation type of games. They're know for crafting good stories with multiple endings. They're not known for PvP either, although I think their warzones are decently made. Their engine really is too bad to create an open world PvP planet though, so they should shelve that idea completely.

If they had any proof of talent to create such a thing akin to the Jump to Light Speed question, then I might sing a different tune. Until then, I think they should expand upon the story on a regular basis, quarterly for sure.

The only story they will expand comes  one and a half years after launch in paid content update, and not even class stories but bland generic MMO quests like other planets.

So dont hold your breath.

Though you can gamble with Rl for some recolored stuff in gambling packs.

We're in complete agreement there, and it doesn't make me happy. Because of this, I will unsubscribe after I complete all the class stories. Should take me no more than a couple more months. So around 6 months total sub, likely not looking back afterwards. It sickens me to see that they are spending most of my sub money to fuel the cartel market and that the first think you see on the patch notes always has to do with cartel market items.

  MurlockDance

Elite Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1181

1/16/13 6:47:49 AM#76
Originally posted by Muke

Still, that space JTL thingy felt too limited.

it wasn't needed, you could always take the shuttle.

What i missed was open space, too few ships and not enough modifications......this goes especially for swtor.

+ I dont like instant travel, press a button and after 1s you are at destination to land on the planet again.....

 

I miss space mining, hauling passengers, doing cargo missions, things I like in EVE atm. It wasn't 'sandboxy' and 'starwarsy' enough.

My Star Wars dream game would be a combo of ToR, SWG, and EVE. I would add in the elements of the old table top SW game too in that for the actual game mechanics or use KoToR's D20 system. From SWG, I would take the sandbox nature of it and its crafting, social professions like politician and entertainer, community-building tools, and open planets, but keep ToR's storylines and legacy systems. From EVE I would use the ship ideas, mining, hauling and the like.

I would decouple bounty hunters and smugglers from the Republic and Empire sides and have them as neutrals who can pick their own side or none. Heck, maybe even troopers and agents could be neutral (why can't there be Republican agents ? and why aren't there Imperial troopers ?). I would let every character class have the possibility of becoming a pilot. I would include smuggler and bounty hunter missions. SWG and EVE have smugglers in them, and I do mean proper smugglers bringing in illicite trade. There should be a black market since in the movies it seems that Star Wars has them. So why not in ToR ?

To me the number 1 problem with ToR is that it is not open enough, whereas I feel that it should be more sandbox-like overall. They could do it by adding in game systems now and not putting in as much quest-stuff.

And yes to more space. I do find the current missions a bit of a lark, and something fun to do every now and then, but with the froob limitations of being able to only place three per week and not much desire to pay lots of money to have the weekly passes, they really are only a side thing. You could completely pass them by and not really miss anything, whereas in SWG once Jump to Lightspeed was added, I think people would have missed a lot by not going out in space. I thought it was the funner option to the game over land-based combat that was always so wonky in SWG.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 916

1/16/13 7:45:51 AM#77
Originally posted by nate1980

SWTOR definitely copies WoW's formula. Before WoW, the following formula didn't exist:

Solo questing with optional group quests until max level + instanced non-persistant battlegrounds + instant dungeons + instanced small sized raids + gear grind + dailies = WoW model.

When WoW came out with that formula, the formula was fresh and well received. The problem came when almost every developer made that formula a staple for the genre.

Exactly.  I remember when Duke Nuke'm first came out, FPS were fresh and new.  Doom followed and then the genre spread into all sorts of different directions (even taking elements from RPGs).  No one ever stopped and said, "HEY, you can't do that in a FPS!"  The only requirement was the first person perspective.

MMO's main requirement should be: an online multiplayer game with a lot of players in a persistent world (which can be loosely translated).  Yet a majority of players are still hanging onto the WoW model and the developers keep making games with these standards.  What they don't understand is that MMO players are just like everyone else, nothing has changed in the gaming industry.  They should focus on making a fun and entertaining game instead of trying to mimic popularity.

You can't recreate trends, you must stumble upon them.

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

1/16/13 7:52:12 AM#78
Originally posted by nate1980

Don't you think Bioware should stick to their strengths? Bioware isn't known ever for creating space simulation type of games. They're know for crafting good stories with multiple endings. They're not known for PvP either, although I think their warzones are decently made. Their engine really is too bad to create an open world PvP planet though, so they should shelve that idea completely.

If they had any proof of talent to create such a thing akin to the Jump to Light Speed question, then I might sing a different tune. Until then, I think they should expand upon the story on a regular basis, quarterly for sure.

By that logic, Bioware sticking to their storytelling strengths, they shouldn't really have thrown their hat into the MMO ring to begin with; space or no space.

ALthough I agree, the alpha engine was not ready to do what they thought it would do. That primary decision, coupled with Bioware's inexperience in MMO design (conscripting what was left of Mythic's talent following the Warhammer exodus wasn't much of a shot in hte arm) lead to many design descions which caused the development process to initially stagnate and cause delays, to a later accelerated pace of pared down design goals.

So I am agreeing with you. On all your points, including OPVP and that they don't currently (and most likely never will) have the in-house talent to add a Jump to Light Speed like expansion.

Those facts coupled with the financial realities of the EA run outfit, which has already had two rounds of lay-offs, make it seem unlikely despite an increase in revenue from the Cartel Shop, that they will hire outside talent to develop a Jump to Light Speed expansion to the game.

*Caveat - If there is one thing EA is good at is aquisitions. The only way that the game could surprise everyone and have a significant space element (in my opinion) is to outright buy a failed franchise such as the space MMO "Black Prophecy" and Frankenstein the different engine run game onto the SWTOR game.

Now I await someone to post that I'm a troll.  (A certain someone who doesn't understand what that term means.)

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10377

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/16/13 7:59:33 AM#79


Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by lizardbones They didn't keep the SWG space combat system because SWToR isn't SWG2. It's a completely different game. The space combat in SWToR was one of the better elements of the game. It fit into the game's other "theme park" elements of the game just fine.
SWTOR is meant to be a MMO, not a single player game, which SWTORs space combat system is.   STO is not the same as SWG, but it managed to provide a better MULTIPLAYER space game in a MMO than SWTOR. The game also did not take so long to make, or cost as much. SWG was just too awesome, you could have more than yourself piloting the ship, and have other players manning your guns. SWGs JTL was the ultimate online space game, and no other game or MMO does this at all, not even STO or EVE I suppose SWTOR space game is better than there being none, and just cutscenes instead, although that could have been pretty awesome actually, considering the gameplay is on rails and you do not have full control. The space game in SWTOR would have been better if they added in more DIFFERENT missions, instead of Republic AND Empire having the same missions, and then as you get further, you get the same missions AGAIN, but harder, when they should have done DIFFERENT AND HARDER missions. It was just lazy what was done, and players get tired of it a lot lot quicker.  
SWToR was meant to be exactly what it was. The rest of the game allowed for a single player focus, so there's no reason why they wouldn't do the same with the space game. It was a mini-game that fit the rest of the game. Of all the things they could put a ton of time and resources into, space missions isn't one of the things that's going to get them any mileage because the entire rest of the game would still be there. Ugly and just staring at you with one bloodshot, baleful eye. It would have an awesome hat, known as "Character Story Lines", and maybe a really nice briefcase, known as "Space Missions", but otherwise it would be dressed in trailer park chic. Turning the briefcase into a nice cane or monocle wouldn't make the rest of it any less ugly.  
SWTOR was meant to be a MMO, not a single player game like ME3 with multiplayer. If it was like ME3 then single player space would have been what it was meant to be.   They should have incorporated space into the story, and made the space and space combat as cut scenes like the rest of the game. What they have done has all backfired as now they have less SUBBED players than SWG had (although has way more FREE players though)
SWToR was an MMO. Just not a good one.  
Exactly, and that is why the space game is a failure, and SWTOR is not what it was meant to be, as a MMO is Massively Multiplayer focussed, not single player focussed which you claim it was.



The space game wasn't a failure. It's one of the few original things in the game, it's something they are expanding and it's something they can charge money for. That's not a failure.

There are many things about SWToR that need to be fixed, but space missions aren't one of them. Many people may not like them, but many people do like them. It's a preference, not a broken mechanic.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  sapphen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 916

1/16/13 7:59:42 AM#80
Originally posted by MurlockDance

My Star Wars dream game would be a combo of ToR, SWG, and EVE. I would add in the elements of the old table top SW game too in that for the actual game mechanics or use KoToR's D20 system. From SWG, I would take the sandbox nature of it and its crafting, social professions like politician and entertainer, community-building tools, and open planets, but keep ToR's storylines and legacy systems. From EVE I would use the ship ideas, mining, hauling and the like.

That would've been a truely awesome game.

As far as the factions, I agree that smugglers and bounty hunters should be in a 3rd neutral faction (such as the Hutts).  Each of them should have the option (late in a story arc) to join either the republic, empire or stay neutral.  In addition, the republic and empire players should have an option to betray their faction and join the opposite or become neutral.

That would've been a lot of work but if you look at it from the planning stages, it wouldn't be any more work than what they did.  That's the premise of a designer to fit the concept into a plausible project.

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