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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Space combat- a failure?

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145 posts found
  NeoCroX997

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 26

 
OP  1/14/13 8:47:46 PM#1

I would like to hear what you think about swtor space combat as it is now. When I played star wars galaxies it was one of the greatest combat system in a mmo. Now they swtor´s slight different, but they still keep some parts like upgrading the ship.

Question is why have they not kept the SWG space battle system. It would be the greatest! With pvp and spaceship controll. As it is now, I find it dull to play space missions and rather avoid it. Even for the good xp. For now the ship moves by it self and you only have to aim. Well some say it is relaxing to do something else and take a break from the mmo, but common. That idea from SWG was brilliant and worked well. I spent days only playing space combat in that game the old days and have to say even with the older graphic, it still was the best gameplay. A bit shame they brought this instead and make it look like a "mario" game instead. Could have been so much better and with their experience, almost a dissappointment. Looked really forward to it. But the good thingd about it, is the mini game is actionpaced and fast. Nothing more.

So how do you think about it. How would the perfect space game for star wars look like for you ?

 

 

  Sevenstar61

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1502

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

1/14/13 8:54:52 PM#2

They are working on space project, but it's far away from now and we don't have any details about it. I treat the sapce missions as a side game only. It is worth to comment though that SWG did not have space combat at all until first expansion which came 1.5 year later. 

And not sure how BW could have SoE space combat :)


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

1/14/13 9:11:13 PM#3

SWTOR was originally designed to be a WoW clone, and a direct competetor to sci-fi games (with a WoW flavor).  WoW didn't have space combat, so neither does SWTOR.

 

EA is slowly trying to distance themselves (perhaps after seeing their blunder).  Stuff like removing resilience on PVP gear goes a long way (They are yet to implement this though).  Now they have hetero+gay romance (users choice).  That goes a long way.

 

I don't know what happens in board rooms, but EA is either trying to figure out how to make this game last, or how to make it die quick (so they get out of the Lucas contract).

 

As for the freeroam space project, I really doubt their current engine could handle much of anything.  A new engine would need to be introduced (like EQ did).  EQ1 had 2 game engines running, depending on what you were doing.

 

As to EA coming up with great ideas for how to implement this, I'm on the fence, because EA is not a very innovative company.  Many great companies have gone to EA to die (Essentially EA buy's them and the awesome company they bought is no more). [cough .. BioWare is only latest company bought by EA]

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  pioneer08

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 119

1/14/13 9:38:54 PM#4
They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

1/14/13 9:39:23 PM#5

Tonight's Top Ten list comes to you from the home office in Austin Texas. It's the

TOP TEN REASONS FOR SWTOR SPACE GAME

#10. Starfox Fans letter writing campaign too big to ignore.

#9. Cool 1980s era Movie Frame Camera panning is "Wave of the Future in gaming"

#8. Budget for Space Game blown on staff Karaoke nights at the TGI Fridays.

#7. Drives containing the original space game for SWTOR stolen from apartment building under suspicious circumstances.

#6. Testers found Space Game takes your mind off the pain of hitting an empty endgame at level 50.

#5. EA

#4. Space Game hastily thrown in after "Jawa Crawler Races" failed to pass QA.

#3. Some testers experienced pleasant halucinations while playing the space game while also listening to trance music and taking drugs.

#2. George saw the space game and stamped it with his little stamp he carries around. You don't go against the stamp.

 

and the #1 reason for SWTOR Space Game .....

#1. Dallas Dickenson, once bullied as a child by Raph Koster, vows to kill Star Wars MMOs for good!

 

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

1/14/13 9:50:06 PM#6
Originally posted by Karteli

As to EA coming up with great ideas for how to implement this, I'm on the fence, because EA is not a very innovative company.  Many great companies have gone to EA to die (Essentially EA buy's them and the awesome company they bought is no more). [cough .. BioWare is only latest company bought by EA]

I loved this game and really hoped it would grow into something amazing but my recent dealings with EA has lead me to shun this title.  No company should treat their customers the way that they do.  If I had been in a store and was given the same customer service by a real life sale representative I would have punched him in the face and happily gone to jail.

This game should have never been a traditional MMO.  Space combat / free flight, roleplaying elements, advanced crafting system, mini-games should have been included from launch.   Instead of pleasing KOTOR, SWG and general SW fans they sacrificed the integrity of their product to lure in MMO purist.  These players can not be satisfied by giving them the same things they expect but rather giving them something they didn't know they wanted.

SWTOR is a nerd posing as a jock and people can tell it's fake.  I do not wish well for this product even though it still hurts me to say it.  I will be happy when Disney decides to make a real online game for us to play.

R.I.P Bioware, you will be missed.
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

1/14/13 9:51:34 PM#7
Originally posted by pioneer08
They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.

Well they might be and, they might not be.  Do you know?

 

In red

The SWTOR engine is garbage.  It can't handle multiplayer on-screen at once.  It simply can't

 

It can do less than 16 players decent .. like with Operations (Raids) or PVP Warzones (8 vs 8).  Get more than 16 players on-screen at once and SWTOR turns to a slide show.   More than 40 will crash the game (on my computer).  WoW handles 200+ with lag (albeit) but it doesn't crash.  Also Alterac Valley in WoW is 40 Vs 40 which doesn't lag AT ALL, and gives full frames-per-second. .. something the SWTOR engine could only dream of.

 

If you want to feed everyone a bunch of fluff, cool .. but lie about the game engine and I will take issue.  It sucks.  Game is good though, shitty engine.

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  pioneer08

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 119

1/14/13 9:57:33 PM#8
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by pioneer08
They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.

Well they might be and, they might not be.  Do you know?

 

In red

The SWTOR engine is garbage.  It can't handle multiplayer on-screen at once.  It simply can't

 

It can do less than 16 players decent .. like with Operations (Raids) or PVP Warzones (8 vs 8).  Get more than 16 players on-screen at once and SWTOR turns to a slide show.   More than 40 will crash the game (on my computer).

 

If you want to feed everyone a bunch of fluff, cool .. but lie about the game engine and I will take issue.  It sucks.  Game is good though, shitty engine.

 

Talking about putting 40 characters on a screen at once is different then changing their space combat. If we were talking about open world pvp maybe i would agree but we were not we were talking about a revamped space combat and if they are working on it then their engine can handle it.
  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

1/14/13 10:11:25 PM#9
Originally posted by pioneer08
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by pioneer08
They are working on new space combat just like they are working on their expansion just like they are working on the eldergame for '13 just like they are working on pvp. The game has been out a year and some expect everything to be out now...well thats not how mmos work. , There will always be those who say Swtor can't do this cant do that their engine isnt good enough blah blah blah. The game started out rocky yes it did. They have done a good job to fix the issued and make it a very good mmo hence the very heavy and full servers.

Well they might be and, they might not be.  Do you know?

 

In red

The SWTOR engine is garbage.  It can't handle multiplayer on-screen at once.  It simply can't

 

It can do less than 16 players decent .. like with Operations (Raids) or PVP Warzones (8 vs 8).  Get more than 16 players on-screen at once and SWTOR turns to a slide show.   More than 40 will crash the game (on my computer).

 

If you want to feed everyone a bunch of fluff, cool .. but lie about the game engine and I will take issue.  It sucks.  Game is good though, shitty engine.

 

Talking about putting 40 characters on a screen at once is different then changing their space combat. If we were talking about open world pvp maybe i would agree but we were not we were talking about a revamped space combat and if they are working on it then their engine can handle it.

So, in your opinion, open Freeroam Space means less than 16 characters on screen at once?  What if more than 16 show up?

 

It still doesn't feel massively, even with 16 people.  If the game lags with 200 people, that is understandable .. but 17+?

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1004

1/14/13 11:02:35 PM#10
Originally posted by sapphen

I loved this game and really hoped it would grow into something amazing but my recent dealings with EA has lead me to shun this title.  No company should treat their customers the way that they do.  If I had been in a store and was given the same customer service by a real life sale representative I would have punched him in the face and happily gone to jail.

 How EA treats their customer is not good in terms of a big company (because normally you expect big company to be more consumer focused), however to be fair it is also NOT rock bottom like the people who run WWIIOL, MO and WarZ. Now those people ARE truely example of what NOT to do in customer service.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2613

110100100

1/14/13 11:10:20 PM#11

its a mini game, nothing more.

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1004

1/14/13 11:10:49 PM#12
Originally posted by pioneer08
Talking about putting 40 characters on a screen at once is different then changing their space combat. If we were talking about open world pvp maybe i would agree but we were not we were talking about a revamped space combat and if they are working on it then their engine can handle it.

 Kartelli is right, the engine IS bad.

 

For your reference, Planetside 2's own inhouse Forgelight engine have no problems dealing with over several hundred people at once in the same place, Warhammer Online uses the antiquated but proved Gamebryo engine and they also have no problems unless you are going above something like 40 people on each side. Guild War 2 also have no problem with it's own GW engine.

 

Swtor can't even handle 20 people on each side - that's why Illum failed and had to be shut down.

  sapphen

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 918

1/14/13 11:36:33 PM#13
Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG
Originally posted by sapphen

I loved this game and really hoped it would grow into something amazing but my recent dealings with EA has lead me to shun this title.  No company should treat their customers the way that they do.  If I had been in a store and was given the same customer service by a real life sale representative I would have punched him in the face and happily gone to jail.

 How EA treats their customer is not good in terms of a big company (because normally you expect big company to be more consumer focused), however to be fair it is also NOT rock bottom like the people who run WWIIOL, MO and WarZ. Now those people ARE truely example of what NOT to do in customer service.

I have heard bad things from these companies, which is one reason why I won't touch them, but we as customers should expect more.  Only one other company have I had such a dispute with that I refuse to play any of their products.  My beginnings was in customer service and my manager lived and died by the customer.  I know the world is changing but I miss those days.

EA is underestimating how much damage their customer support is doing to this game.
  mithrillion

Novice Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 29

1/15/13 12:37:04 AM#14
At least as a minigame it is much better than FARMING in you-know-which-game-it-is. But yeah, minigames usually suck after a while.
  NeoCroX997

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 26

 
OP  1/15/13 3:31:35 AM#15

I can see EA/Bio have something going on the "dark" side for some of you, if I understand correctly. Star wars is about space combat a lot as you see in the movies and should´ve been into something more, the most people want.

If the implant the feature of a 3D space combat with AI system we dream about. How much would it improve the game and its popularity ? Or perhaps it wouldn´t even matter.

The engine cant handle that many players(in space combat) without overloading. Would it help with a new engine instead that can take the pressure of more players?  Rather a new engine the solution?

 

 

 

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

1/15/13 3:41:44 AM#16
Originally posted by Sevenstar61

They are working on space project, but it's far away from now and we don't have any details about it. I treat the sapce missions as a side game only. It is worth to comment though that SWG did not have space combat at all until first expansion which came 1.5 year later. 

And not sure how BW could have SoE space combat :)

True but 4 years(?) and 250+ million the key features and mechanics should ahve been sound. Not saying its an excuse, i know their story and voice was the main selling point for some. But this game should have had much much more. I was hoping it to be the mmorpg of the century, but kept trying to find the coin deposite box everytime my ship got blown up

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1833

1/15/13 4:53:44 AM#17
Originally posted by NeoCroX997

I would like to hear what you think about swtor space combat as it is now. When I played star wars galaxies it was one of the greatest combat system in a mmo. Now they swtor´s slight different, but they still keep some parts like upgrading the ship.

Question is why have they not kept the SWG space battle system. It would be the greatest! With pvp and spaceship controll. As it is now, I find it dull to play space missions and rather avoid it. Even for the good xp. For now the ship moves by it self and you only have to aim. Well some say it is relaxing to do something else and take a break from the mmo, but common. That idea from SWG was brilliant and worked well. I spent days only playing space combat in that game the old days and have to say even with the older graphic, it still was the best gameplay. A bit shame they brought this instead and make it look like a "mario" game instead. Could have been so much better and with their experience, almost a dissappointment. Looked really forward to it. But the good thingd about it, is the mini game is actionpaced and fast. Nothing more.

So how do you think about it. How would the perfect space game for star wars look like for you ?

 

 

Bioware can't keep anything it never had. This isn't SWG 2, nor should it be compared to SWG. Bioware is a totally different company with different strengths. Name one game Bioware has made that revolved around space combat? Bioware's strength is in storytelling, with dialogue options, and an alignment system. I don't know why anyone would expect a deep space combat system from Bioware judging by their previous game release.

While I liked SWG's Jump to Light Speed expansion, I could really care less about space combat in SWTOR. Not unless they released Republic and Empire Pilots as a class that revolved around that aspect of Star Wars. I'd rather see Bioware concentrate on their strengths and develop more class based stories, or stories of equivalent or better quality for the Empire and Republic as a whole. I want them to develop the story and move the game forward. The timeline for this game hasn't advanced one bit since release and that's sad. Screw space combat until they get a good development schedule for more story going.

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1833

1/15/13 5:03:36 AM#18
Originally posted by NeoCroX997

I can see EA/Bio have something going on the "dark" side for some of you, if I understand correctly. Star wars is about space combat a lot as you see in the movies and should´ve been into something more, the most people want.

If the implant the feature of a 3D space combat with AI system we dream about. How much would it improve the game and its popularity ? Or perhaps it wouldn´t even matter.

The engine cant handle that many players(in space combat) without overloading. Would it help with a new engine instead that can take the pressure of more players?  Rather a new engine the solution?

 

 

 

I wholeheartedly disagree. As a huge Star Wars fan who loves ALL the movies and ALL the books, Star Wars has had minimal space combat, except in a few of their books. The majority of what goes on in the movies and books revolves around a small group of heroes, with the main good and bad guy being a Jedi and Sith. IMHO, Star Wars is about the struggle between the Light Side and Dark Side (Jedi and Sith) with the Empire (or its equivalent) and the Republic getting caught up in their business. 

  tiefighter25

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/12
Posts: 949

1/15/13 5:26:05 AM#19
Originally posted by nate1980 

I wholeheartedly disagree. As a huge Star Wars fan who loves ALL the movies and ALL the books, Star Wars has had minimal space combat, except in a few of their books. The majority of what goes on in the movies and books revolves around a small group of heroes, with the main good and bad guy being a Jedi and Sith. IMHO, Star Wars is about the struggle between the Light Side and Dark Side (Jedi and Sith) with the Empire (or its equivalent) and the Republic getting caught up in their business. 

I would disagree with your stance. There's a reason why the top selling Star Wars books are cross sectional schematics of the vehicles in Star Wars. Made up primarily of spaceships.

While the expanded universe novels do alright, very few are buying backstory histories of Star Wars charcters.

Within the cultural zetgeist, both Star Wars enthusists and detractors often refer to the series as either "A Western set in Space" or a "Space Soap Opera".

To quote Portal: "SSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/15/13 5:32:50 AM#20
Or a space fantasy, heard that term used too.

not uprising when you think hidden fortress. a film set in feudal Japan with fantastical elements was the biggest influence on the original star wars
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