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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » so, since they aren't fixing culling..

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73 posts found
  pedrostrik

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 400

1/14/13 7:10:56 AM#21
Originally posted by Rider071

nor nerfing the thief's ability to make entire armies perma-invisible...

I had an idea to help save this game and bring people back....

make it so a thief cannot be invisible to another thief, thus as long as there is a thief amongst you, they can tell WvWvW groups if they see another thief coming, walking weirdly and casting stealth every 2 seconds.

or they can go kill them.

Something like this can lead to an end to the ridiculous culling issue without having to change the game dynamics, or at least buy time so the devs can do something later.

Just a thought.

Its the main problem on WxWxW, invisible armys, but there is 2 other major issues:

1: portal entre to recap fast the lost tower, keep..... They must turn off the option to port to enemy keep , it's not helping game mechanics (it suposed to be always with siege)

2: Once for all no one can start a  finish move in stealth mode, for me this is a broken gameplay exploit or bug or something.

  pedrostrik

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 400

1/14/13 7:22:32 AM#22
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Rider071
Originally posted by eyelolled

I love playing the thief in PvE. It's a fun, high paced class to play.  I have yet to play an mmo where I haven't felt the "assassin/rogue/theif" class causes problems. 

I think your suggestion does make some pretty big changes for game/combat mechanics. Not sure what all would result from that.

It wouldn't be a nerf to the class though, not affecting pve in any way.

The effect to pvp shouldn't be a hit in regards to how the game is supposed to be played. I don't honestly think the culling issue was intended to be used as a tactic so widely implemented in WvWvW.

At least if thieves can all see each other, teams have a chance to disrupt the culling mechanic and have a fighting chance against it.

no, I didn't mean it would change PvE, just that I get disappointed in the problems inherint with stealth classes even though I like them at the same time.

 

As for the change suggested, I honestly just don't know what to make of it. I would think it would devastate the thief in PvP, and make it the gimped class. It may be the lesser of two evils though.

Engineer its a completely broken class atm, and they care nothing about, i dont touch mine since 1 month.

On other side thief does too much dmg (we can live with that),

the rest not: too much stealth (almost infinite ), they culling entire armys, they can start a finish move in stealth , i mean they are by far the best class , near to mesmer ofc, the only way to beat them its to made a anti thief build, but then you are in trouble against ele, rangers, mesmer,warrior and so on.

Ofc they must nerf as they ubber nerf class's as engineer to the floor or necro (still my main class) in beta.

  Wrender

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/03/04
Posts: 1426

The truth shall set you free!
The truth shall piss you off!

1/14/13 7:36:01 AM#23
Ok so would someone lay down the exact definitin of "cullng" please. I play the stupid game and still don't know what you are refering to here? I'm more into AC2 rigt now and don't play GW2 much anymore...only hit lvl 25ish since release. AC2 is a lot more fun than any modern game I've played since they shut down AC2 back 10 years ago.
  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2527

1/14/13 7:44:03 AM#24
Originally posted by Rider071

They replied to a post once about it a month ago, saying they werelooking at it, but had no answers. The post left the feel that the problem was something beyond their ability to fix, or they didn't want to spend the resources in doing so.

Does it mean they won't no...but it doesn't sound like it's going to be in the near future. How many months since release and still no official word nor game update saying they are close to a solution?

thus, thinking of other avenues.

Just because they had no answers doesn't mean they aren't going to do something. You have to stop ASS-U-ME-ing things.

 

It means they are looking at the data they collect from the servers. They did the same in GW1 and they probably don't want to tip their hand yet.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2527

1/14/13 7:45:44 AM#25
Originally posted by pedrostrik
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Rider071
Originally posted by eyelolled

I love playing the thief in PvE. It's a fun, high paced class to play.  I have yet to play an mmo where I haven't felt the "assassin/rogue/theif" class causes problems. 

I think your suggestion does make some pretty big changes for game/combat mechanics. Not sure what all would result from that.

It wouldn't be a nerf to the class though, not affecting pve in any way.

The effect to pvp shouldn't be a hit in regards to how the game is supposed to be played. I don't honestly think the culling issue was intended to be used as a tactic so widely implemented in WvWvW.

At least if thieves can all see each other, teams have a chance to disrupt the culling mechanic and have a fighting chance against it.

no, I didn't mean it would change PvE, just that I get disappointed in the problems inherint with stealth classes even though I like them at the same time.

 

As for the change suggested, I honestly just don't know what to make of it. I would think it would devastate the thief in PvP, and make it the gimped class. It may be the lesser of two evils though.

Engineer its a completely broken class atm, and they care nothing about, i dont touch mine since 1 month.

On other side thief does too much dmg (we can live with that),

the rest not: too much stealth (almost infinite ), they culling entire armys, they can start a finish move in stealth , i mean they are by far the best class , near to mesmer ofc, the only way to beat them its to made a anti thief build, but then you are in trouble against ele, rangers, mesmer,warrior and so on.

Ofc they must nerf as they ubber nerf class's as engineer to the floor or necro (still my main class) in beta.

A thief is a glass cannon - yes they have burst damage but if you set defenses out right, at the beginning, they are usually not that hard to kill. Learn to play the game as a team not one versus one.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1395

1/14/13 7:51:14 AM#26
So culling is that they can't show all characters, in big battles, on the screen at once?  How or why is this only a thief issue?
  User Deleted
 
OP  1/14/13 7:55:43 AM#27

for those that don't understand culling...

it's the word attributed to a situation where 1 (or worse multiple) thief can spam his AoE invis to keep an entire army of allies around him cloaked. Even while they are attacking. The reason for this, is the 'culling' as they call it of the game engine. It doesn't render players from the cloak to an enemy for a 3 second delay, whereas the abiliy cooldown is less then that, so the thief(s) just continue to spam, while the army marches on decimating folks in WvWvW without fear of ever being targetted.

 

It's why so many of us left in October. No PvPer wants to fight against perma-invisible players. There is no way to uncloak them. Very broken mechanic that ruined WvWvW for many folk.

  Whiskey_Sam

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/12
Posts: 275

Nemo me impune lacessit.

1/14/13 8:26:48 AM#28
Originally posted by Rider071

for those that don't understand culling...

it's the word attributed to a situation where 1 (or worse multiple) thief can spam his AoE invis to keep an entire army of allies around him cloaked. Even while they are attacking. The reason for this, is the 'culling' as they call it of the game engine. It doesn't render players from the cloak to an enemy for a 3 second delay, whereas the abiliy cooldown is less then that, so the thief(s) just continue to spam, while the army marches on decimating folks in WvWvW without fear of ever being targetted.

 

It's why so many of us left in October. No PvPer wants to fight against perma-invisible players. There is no way to uncloak them. Very broken mechanic that ruined WvWvW for many folk.

That's not culling.  Culling is the engine not rendering the other players when too many players are in one area.  That happens regardless of whether a thief is around or not.  You can be running along in what looks like an empty area, and when the game starts rendering them you find yourself in the middle of another army.  You can still target them, you just can't see them until they are renderred.  The thief issue is an extenstion of this by taking advantage of culling.  

___________________________
Have flask; will travel.

  User Deleted
 
OP  1/14/13 8:35:20 AM#29
Originally posted by Whiskey_Sam
Originally posted by Rider071

for those that don't understand culling...

it's the word attributed to a situation where 1 (or worse multiple) thief can spam his AoE invis to keep an entire army of allies around him cloaked. Even while they are attacking. The reason for this, is the 'culling' as they call it of the game engine. It doesn't render players from the cloak to an enemy for a 3 second delay, whereas the abiliy cooldown is less then that, so the thief(s) just continue to spam, while the army marches on decimating folks in WvWvW without fear of ever being targetted.

 

It's why so many of us left in October. No PvPer wants to fight against perma-invisible players. There is no way to uncloak them. Very broken mechanic that ruined WvWvW for many folk.

That's not culling.  Culling is the engine not rendering the other players when too many players are in one area.  That happens regardless of whether a thief is around or not.  You can be running along in what looks like an empty area, and when the game starts rendering them you find yourself in the middle of another army.  You can still target them, you just can't see them until they are renderred.  The thief issue is an extenstion of this by taking advantage of culling.  

Call it whatever you want to, when we speak of the culling issue it pertains to thief class taking advantage/exploiting it as a tactic. It has no real bearing anywhere else...but the impact in WvWvW from those exploiting the mechanic is a huge problem.

The definition i described for those asking what we were referring to is the correct definition.

  User Deleted
1/14/13 8:58:45 AM#30
Originally posted by Rider071

for those that don't understand culling...

it's the word attributed to a situation where 1 (or worse multiple) thief can spam his AoE invis to keep an entire army of allies around him cloaked. Even while they are attacking. The reason for this, is the 'culling' as they call it of the game engine. It doesn't render players from the cloak to an enemy for a 3 second delay, whereas the abiliy cooldown is less then that, so the thief(s) just continue to spam, while the army marches on decimating folks in WvWvW without fear of ever being targetted.

 

It's why so many of us left in October. No PvPer wants to fight against perma-invisible players. There is no way to uncloak them. Very broken mechanic that ruined WvWvW for many folk.

Ahhahahahah, no, thats not culling.

Thiefs ability is on 60 seconds CD, you could have checked what culling actually is, instead you sound like someones ego has been hurt a bit.

You are aware that thiefs ability has nothing to do with culling, right? No, i didnt think so. Inform yourself better next time, you can have culling without thiefs ability, lets say when you run into the fray just to find out youre surrounded theres like 50 "invisible" enemy players that had nothing to do with thief whatsoever, and when they are rendered they are rendered, they are targetable and affected by AoE...always. Theres NO "perma stealth untargetable". With you its pretty much L2P issue.

Its shorcoming of an engine (well a measure to help lower end machines really) because you regularly have culling in crowded places like LA, or do you think theres army of thieves there intentionally perma stealth players from you?

Anyway, they said they are working on the issue, what more do you want?

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7240

1/14/13 9:02:39 AM#31
Originally posted by Rider071

nor nerfing the thief's ability to make entire armies perma-invisible...

I had an idea to help save this game and bring people back....

make it so a thief cannot be invisible to another thief, thus as long as there is a thief amongst you, they can tell WvWvW groups if they see another thief coming, walking weirdly and casting stealth every 2 seconds.

or they can go kill them.

Something like this can lead to an end to the ridiculous culling issue without having to change the game dynamics, or at least buy time so the devs can do something later.

Just a thought.

Solution to a problem. Refreshing.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  User Deleted
1/14/13 9:09:35 AM#32
Originally posted by Rider071
Originally posted by Whiskey_Sam
Originally posted by Rider071

for those that don't understand culling...

it's the word attributed to a situation where 1 (or worse multiple) thief can spam his AoE invis to keep an entire army of allies around him cloaked. Even while they are attacking. The reason for this, is the 'culling' as they call it of the game engine. It doesn't render players from the cloak to an enemy for a 3 second delay, whereas the abiliy cooldown is less then that, so the thief(s) just continue to spam, while the army marches on decimating folks in WvWvW without fear of ever being targetted.

 

It's why so many of us left in October. No PvPer wants to fight against perma-invisible players. There is no way to uncloak them. Very broken mechanic that ruined WvWvW for many folk.

That's not culling.  Culling is the engine not rendering the other players when too many players are in one area.  That happens regardless of whether a thief is around or not.  You can be running along in what looks like an empty area, and when the game starts rendering them you find yourself in the middle of another army.  You can still target them, you just can't see them until they are renderred.  The thief issue is an extenstion of this by taking advantage of culling.  

Call it whatever you want to, when we speak of the culling issue it pertains to thief class taking advantage/exploiting it as a tactic. It has no real bearing anywhere else...but the impact in WvWvW from those exploiting the mechanic is a huge problem.

The definition i described for those asking what we were referring to is the correct definition.

 They changed it a while back so your team will cull instead of the enemy. It hasn't been a real issue in WvW in a long time.

  ButeoRegalis

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 392

1/14/13 9:16:48 AM#33

so, since you don't know what you are talking about, and haven't read anything about the subject I'm just going to skip over the rest of your post, kthxbai.

 

Anyone who actually wants to read what ANet is doing about the problem - which they do recognize as a problem in the first place! - look here for a recent update form the guy doing/leading the work:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/The-real-problem-here-is-invisible-enemies-Give-their-algorithms-time-to-match-servers-properly/page/4#post356817

Hmm, you might need an account to see forum, so here is the long quote...

"Hi all,

I just wanted to pop in to mention that we haven’t forgotten about you.

We’re aware that this is a serious issue and we’re actively working to improve the experience. I can’t talk about specific work that we’re doing yet, but I can say that we’re attacking the problem on multiple fronts and working hard to get WvW into a better state. This is one of those issues that involves multiple systems interacting in sometimes unexpected ways and as such it’s tricky to address. I would love to be able to snap my fingers and fix it today (which would make me a wizard, so that would be doubly awesome) but unfortunately the changes we’re working on will take time to implement and test thoroughly. Our goal is to make WvW the best experience it can be so we want to be very sure that any changes we make won’t have unintended, negative side effects.

I’d like to take a moment to briefly address a few of the points of serious contention that have come up in this thread and hopefully clear up any confusion:

This is a multi-faceted issue that involves both reporting from the server to the client and client asset loading. Much like a super villain team-up these two parts of the issue are combining to make an unpleasant situation worse. We’re pursuing both parts of the issue and hope to see incremental improvements as we get fixes in and tested.

The reporting issue is really all about performance tradeoffs. Every decision that the server makes about what to report to which client consumes resources, as does the act of reporting itself. These resources (server CPU, network bandwidth, etc.) are finite and are the same ones that are used by every other aspect of WvW as well. How we make use of those resources determines the number of players we can support in a given map and how smooth the simulation feels. The system that we have in place now constitutes an attempt to strike a balance between a perfect simulation that handles all the details and makes them available to every client immediately and a simulation that supports a reasonably large number of players while maintaining smooth performance under most gameplay situations. This is a true dilemma because we really want to achieve both of those goals completely and simultaneously but that just isn’t possible at the moment.

Could we throw more hardware at the problem? Maybe, but the servers that we’re running on now are Serious Business™ and simply buying faster CPUs likely wouldn’t gain us even a linear increase in performance. With today’s hardware I believe that we’re likely to gain far more improvement from code changes than we would from slightly faster CPUs. As you might imagine the way that we manage client/server communication is pretty well core to the way our game works so making changes to that system is a tricky affair that must be undertaken with great care and much testing. Further, since we can’t really create any more resources (CPU, network) every substantial change involves making a hard decision about performance, scale, and completeness of the various aspects of Gw2. Some of the most robust, correct, and appealing solutions to this issue are also the ones that will take the longest to implement correctly, thus adding response time into the mix of factors we need to consider. In a situation like this, sadly, there are no easy answers. That said, we’re evaluating possible changes to reporting even now and are committed to making WvW into the best experience we can.

The client issue relates to the way that we load assets when preparing to display characters. WvW hits this more than most other parts of the game because players are pretty much the most complicated characters that we have and, especially at higher levels, they tend to be quite varied (so things like texture caching don’t help us as much as they might elsewhere in the game). WvW tends to have much higher player densities than the rest of the game so that’s why we see these issues coming up in WvW more than elsewhere. This asset loading issue will be influenced by client hardware (kind of like saying water is wet, I know) but we see this issue crop up on even high end systems so it’s clear that hardware is not the major determining factor. So, while better hardware may improve the situation a bit it won’t make the client issue go away completely. At this point we have a solid repro of the client issue and we’re aggressively pursuing fixes.

All of us who have worked on WvW (and many of those at ArenaNet who have not) are deeply invested in making WvW the best it can be. I personally have dedicated over a year of my life to developing this game type. Other have spent even longer. I know it can be terribly frustrating to deal with these issues (I’m a gamer too, I’ve been there!). I also know that frustration can make it tempting to believe that our silence on the forums means we’re ignoring issues with the game. Please believe me when I tell you that is simply not the case. We must always balance our time on the forums with our time spent working on the game. If we go silent for a while it’s generally because we’re busy working hard so that the next time we post we can have something substantial to tell you.

TL;DR: The issue is real, we’re aware of it, we’re working on fixes/improvements, the fixes/improvements are complicated and I can’t provide you an ETA.

Keep fighting the good fight and we’ll be back to let you know when we can share more details."

  User Deleted
1/14/13 9:17:12 AM#34
Originally posted by evilastro

 They changed it a while back so your team will cull instead of the enemy. It hasn't been a real issue in WvW in a long time.

Its still an issue, happens to me on daily basis. Just run into 2 zergs fighting and fire AoE and look at damage numbers going off out of thin air ;P then after 1-2 seconds you can see how many there are. BUT only in really large numbers present (like 50vs50), i dont think ive had culling in 15vs15 ever.

But all the battle effects of skills and pretty litle red circles on the ground are quite telling ha ha

Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Rider071

nor nerfing the thief's ability to make entire armies perma-invisible...

I had an idea to help save this game and bring people back....

make it so a thief cannot be invisible to another thief, thus as long as there is a thief amongst you, they can tell WvWvW groups if they see another thief coming, walking weirdly and casting stealth every 2 seconds.

or they can go kill them.

Something like this can lead to an end to the ridiculous culling issue without having to change the game dynamics, or at least buy time so the devs can do something later.

Just a thought.

Solution to a problem. Refreshing.

Except he should explain first how they "cast stealth every 2 seconds", im very interested in that, maybe i even make a thief.

Answer - no they cant. Solution to imaginary problem is fascinating. He has a L2P issue. He hasnt learned how to counter a thief, but thats his problem really.

  Fearum

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1092

1/14/13 9:19:34 AM#35
Originally posted by Whiskey_Sam
Originally posted by Rider071

for those that don't understand culling...

it's the word attributed to a situation where 1 (or worse multiple) thief can spam his AoE invis to keep an entire army of allies around him cloaked. Even while they are attacking. The reason for this, is the 'culling' as they call it of the game engine. It doesn't render players from the cloak to an enemy for a 3 second delay, whereas the abiliy cooldown is less then that, so the thief(s) just continue to spam, while the army marches on decimating folks in WvWvW without fear of ever being targetted.

 

It's why so many of us left in October. No PvPer wants to fight against perma-invisible players. There is no way to uncloak them. Very broken mechanic that ruined WvWvW for many folk.

That's not culling.  Culling is the engine not rendering the other players when too many players are in one area.  That happens regardless of whether a thief is around or not.  You can be running along in what looks like an empty area, and when the game starts rendering them you find yourself in the middle of another army.  You can still target them, you just can't see them until they are renderred.  The thief issue is an extenstion of this by taking advantage of culling.  

Culling is not from thieves, not sure where you got that but it is actually what Whiskey_Sam said. Its an engine flaw or coding flaw they havent been able to fix since launch. It makes large groups of people, 30- 40 people - zergs usually, not load in until a few seconds or not at all. Its not a tactic its more of a exploit, but you can call it what ever you want it sucked and made WvW a joke, not like its not a joke without that already but it made it even worse.

Thieves staying at supply camps and basically pretty much perma stealthing is another issue that was lame. There would be 50 people standing there to cap and one thief can hold up capping a supply camp by just running around tapping cloak and dagger and using stealth skills forever or until he misses or messes up his rotation.

  cptndunsel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 117

1/14/13 9:24:36 AM#36

as they showed with the orb fiasco - they have a serious design flaw in wvw and i don't believe they are able to fix it without serious effort. anet has no desire to spend time and money on this as it cuts into profit so they hope the player base will learn to accept it.

for this and other reasons (mainly defects) I refuse to waste my time in wvw aside from monthly kills needed.

  User Deleted
1/14/13 9:28:15 AM#37
Originally posted by Fearum

Thieves staying at supply camps and basically pretty much perma stealthing is another issue that was lame. There would be 50 people standing there to cap and one thief can hold up capping a supply camp by just running around tapping cloak and dagger and using stealth skills forever or until he misses or messes up his rotation.

How come we always kill the thief by short order?

1st rule: dont run in zerg full of clueless people.

Somehow i get the picture of something like this:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/4vs30-No-problem

Enjoy :)

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1311

1/14/13 9:33:46 AM#38

theres some misinformation in this thread.

From someone who didn't stop playing in October and still plays and keeps informed.

 

About thieves and culling:

Culling is not a problem that only affects thieves.  The issue with thieves and culling is that there is about a 1-2 second delay (yes it is just 1 or 2 seconds) from when they unstealth to when they are visible.  A thief can use a stealth ability (of which they have a couple that have no cooldown and are useable immediately and constantly) within that second to restealth and they can do that constantly to effectively achieve permanent stealth.

There should be a split second where the thief is visible but the game is slow to render the player model so that split second is gone.  Also if they actually attack from stealth there should be several seconds where they cannot stealth. a portion of that is mitigated by this issue in the thief's favor.

 

On Culling:

Culling more often though refers to players simply not showing up on the screen at all no matter what class they are.  The game only allows a certain amount of players to be visible at once and if a player is a part of a zerg (which zerging is a strong tactic in WvW) then friendly players are taking up all those "slots" so to speak.  The effect is you are running around with 50 of your best friends and the enemy is running around iwth 50 of their best friends but you won't see the enemy zerg until they are standing on top of you and even then you will only see a few of them at a time.

Many players abuse this by rushing into where they know there is a large group of enemies and unloading massive AOE on them knowing their character won't be immediately visible to the enemy.  Some coordinated groups of 5, 10, or even 50 will do this same thing and the game devolves simply into "the attacker always wins" at times.

As such culling is having a huge impact on the outcome of WvW fights in the more organized levels of play.  At best it is just frustrating and annoying, at worste it is deciding who takes the keep/tower and who wins the matchup.

 

to the OP: 

 Thieves already are seen as one of the most if not the most powerful classes.  Giving them such a  powerful ability unique to their class would only further add to their utility.  This would be a huge class imbalance added onto what many already percieve as an imbalanced class.  I personally though am hesitant to comment on thief balance until the culling is fixed.

the devs have stated they are making progress on removing it entirely as well.  

 

source -> https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Update-on-Culling/first#post1137307

  IPolygon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 707

1/14/13 9:38:37 AM#39
The only advice I got for players until they fix the culling issue is to wait for the supposedly big update to WvW in Feb. If they do not fix the issue by then, look for another game/don't hold your breath.
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7240

1/14/13 9:43:43 AM#40
Originally posted by mikahr
Originally posted by evilastro

 They changed it a while back so your team will cull instead of the enemy. It hasn't been a real issue in WvW in a long time.

Its still an issue, happens to me on daily basis. Just run into 2 zergs fighting and fire AoE and look at damage numbers going off out of thin air ;P then after 1-2 seconds you can see how many there are. BUT only in really large numbers present (like 50vs50), i dont think ive had culling in 15vs15 ever.

But all the battle effects of skills and pretty litle red circles on the ground are quite telling ha ha

Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by Rider071

nor nerfing the thief's ability to make entire armies perma-invisible...

I had an idea to help save this game and bring people back....

make it so a thief cannot be invisible to another thief, thus as long as there is a thief amongst you, they can tell WvWvW groups if they see another thief coming, walking weirdly and casting stealth every 2 seconds.

or they can go kill them.

Something like this can lead to an end to the ridiculous culling issue without having to change the game dynamics, or at least buy time so the devs can do something later.

Just a thought.

Solution to a problem. Refreshing.

Except he should explain first how they "cast stealth every 2 seconds", im very interested in that, maybe i even make a thief.

Answer - no they cant. Solution to imaginary problem is fascinating. He has a L2P issue. He hasnt learned how to counter a thief, but thats his problem really.

Multiple thieves chain casting shelter if I remember correctly.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

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