Originally posted by bliss14

Holy crap.  It was at $990,000 and since I have nothing else to do I was watching it tick up while watching Pawn Stars and BOOM, $1,000,000. 

Here we go!  Congrats Pathfinder Online!

yeah, almost all kickstarters work like that.  Once they hit 750k a few days ago, I knew they were going to make it.  I predicted 1.1M will be their final.

if a kickstarter gets above 50% with a few days left, they almost all make it to 100%.

Originally posted by Azrile

 

WOW has nothing to do with it.  WOW is a themepark.    Because I run a new player guild in WOW, it suddenly dismisses the fact that I played UO for 6 years and ran a new player guild there?

I think you are confusing a ´head start´  with what PFO is doing.  A headstart is 3 days of leveling.. so at best you are going to level cap 3 days before others.   What PFO is proposing is months and months of a headstart in a game designed around player-factions and land control.  What PFO is proposing is that those months are used to flesh-out the rules in cooporation with the players involved in the head-start.  In a game designed around player-factions, those player-factions are going to be completely defined during the head-start.  Any player that comes in after the headstart is going to a peon to the pre-existing factions... 

I think the devs are trying to copy EVE, but are thinking some of the worst things about EVE are what kept it hanging on all these years.  EVE would have been much more successful if the corporation system was more fluid.  But instead, you have the large corporation leaders having direct communications with the devs and helping to set the rules to favor... large corps.

Two questions about Eve

1.  Go to the forums and say you are a new player and see what the first response you get is?  Join one of the large corps

2. Count how many signficant corps have been formed in the last 4 years.  All of the major players ( ie, the only ones involved with any type of political system)  are all from the very beginning.

Eve has a different map system, but the same thing is going to happen to PFO..  the entire ´political´ part of the game is going to be dominated by people who did the KS.  The entire map is going to be already carved up.  New players will be sheep.  And the old players, the ones who are rewarded for their KS loyalty, will be the ones making the rules to keep ti that way.  Do you really see any of the early players creating rules to limit the power of factions?  Do you think there will be any rules made that allow new factions to prosper?  No way, they are going to solidify their factions during the head-start, then they are going basically force new player to join one of the existing factions like what happens in EVE.

Yes, PFO will have a political system, and a land system... but anyone not involved with the head-start will never be involved with it.

Last time I checked EVE had hundred of thousands of customers (400k? 500k?). They started with 10k... probably less.  Seems like a LOT of people joined later and found it to be a fun game... amazingly enough.

Yes the Early Enrollment folks will help to define the setting in which the game starts.  At release it will be a living and breathing world with factions that are at odds with each other.  The difference between this and WoW is that the factions will be player created and the conflict will be player driven.  New people can join that conflict... for the long term or for a short term... and/or they can strike out on their own.  Settlements will be in developed areas.  As new areas are opened, Pioneers will be needed to settle those.  This isn't like Eve with warp engines.  Settlements and cities are not going to sprout legs and move.  The frontiers will be ever evolving and will provide an area for old and new to make their mark.

But we get it, you don't like the concepts.  Honestly, that's OK.  There are plenty of games that are out there.  Find one that you like!  $1,000,000 and growing (plus another $300k from the tech demo KS) show that there are folks who DO want a fantasy sandbox like this.  Let us have our sandbox and have fun in your game.  They are not mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Azrile

 

WOW has nothing to do with it.  WOW is a themepark.    Because I run a new player guild in WOW, it suddenly dismisses the fact that I played UO for 6 years and ran a new player guild there?

I think you are confusing a ´head start´  with what PFO is doing.  A headstart is 3 days of leveling.. so at best you are going to level cap 3 days before others.   What PFO is proposing is months and months of a headstart in a game designed around player-factions and land control.  What PFO is proposing is that those months are used to flesh-out the rules in cooporation with the players involved in the head-start.  In a game designed around player-factions, those player-factions are going to be completely defined during the head-start.  Any player that comes in after the headstart is going to a peon to the pre-existing factions... 

I think the devs are trying to copy EVE, but are thinking some of the worst things about EVE are what kept it hanging on all these years.  EVE would have been much more successful if the corporation system was more fluid.  But instead, you have the large corporation leaders having direct communications with the devs and helping to set the rules to favor... large corps.

Two questions about Eve

1.  Go to the forums and say you are a new player and see what the first response you get is?  Join one of the large corps

2. Count how many signficant corps have been formed in the last 4 years.  All of the major players ( ie, the only ones involved with any type of political system)  are all from the very beginning.

Eve has a different map system, but the same thing is going to happen to PFO..  the entire ´political´ part of the game is going to be dominated by people who did the KS.  The entire map is going to be already carved up.  New players will be sheep.  And the old players, the ones who are rewarded for their KS loyalty, will be the ones making the rules to keep ti that way.  Do you really see any of the early players creating rules to limit the power of factions?  Do you think there will be any rules made that allow new factions to prosper?  No way, they are going to solidify their factions during the head-start, then they are going basically force new player to join one of the existing factions like what happens in EVE.

Yes, PFO will have a political system, and a land system... but anyone not involved with the head-start will never be involved with it.

 

 

Last time I checked EVE had hundred of thousands of customers (400k? 500k?). They started with 10k... probably less.  Seems like a LOT of people joined later and found it to be a fun game... amazingly enough.

 

Yes the Early Enrollment folks will help to define the setting in which the game starts.  At release it will be a living and breathing world with factions that are at odds with each other.  The difference between this and WoW is that the factions will be player created and the conflict will be player driven.  New people can join that conflict... for the long term or for a short term... and/or they can strike out on their own.  Settlements will be in developed areas.  As new areas are opened, Pioneers will be needed to settle those.  This isn't like Eve with warp engines.  Settlements and cities are not going to sprout legs and move.  The frontiers will be ever evolving and will provide an area for old and new to make their mark.

 

But we get it, you don't like the concepts.  Honestly, that's OK.  There are plenty of games that are out there.  Find one that you like!  $1,000,000 and growing (plus another $300k from the tech demo KS) show that there are folks who DO want a fantasy sandbox like this.  Let us have our sandbox and have fun in your game.  They are not mutually exclusive.

 

ok kid.  why are you even talking about WOW guilds..  I repeatedly used EVE as the example.  WOW is completely different.  Is that all you have to defend?  attacking WOW?

Eve has approximately 450k  accounts.  Accounts can be played using ingame currency.   You really need to do some research.  That is exactly the point I was trying to make.  Play EVE, join a corp.. and then see how many accounts the leaders have.  See how impossible it is to play solo, or to start a corp... you join the game, and the first thing you are told is to join one of the large corps.  You are then ushered around like a drone with no part at all in the political system.  That is my point, with the way they are going to do factions, along with the headstart, it is going to lead to a very inorganic political system for most of the players.

I love the idea of a sandbox, I would love a clean UO before they went diablo-loot system.  You are missing the point entirely by focusing so much on WOW, which is nothing I ever mentioned.   The problem with be the corp system.  The problem will be the few early corps taking the entire political system out of the game for almost all the members.  It is exactly what happened in EVE.  99% of the players know nothing about the political system except what they read afterwards.  The few corp leader that were there from the beginning completely control a large part of the game (the political aspect).

Either talk about EVE or UO... it is meaningless to compare anything in PFO to WOW.  

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by Azrile

 

WOW has nothing to do with it.  WOW is a themepark.    Because I run a new player guild in WOW, it suddenly dismisses the fact that I played UO for 6 years and ran a new player guild there?

I think you are confusing a ´head start´  with what PFO is doing.  A headstart is 3 days of leveling.. so at best you are going to level cap 3 days before others.   What PFO is proposing is months and months of a headstart in a game designed around player-factions and land control.  What PFO is proposing is that those months are used to flesh-out the rules in cooporation with the players involved in the head-start.  In a game designed around player-factions, those player-factions are going to be completely defined during the head-start.  Any player that comes in after the headstart is going to a peon to the pre-existing factions... 

I think the devs are trying to copy EVE, but are thinking some of the worst things about EVE are what kept it hanging on all these years.  EVE would have been much more successful if the corporation system was more fluid.  But instead, you have the large corporation leaders having direct communications with the devs and helping to set the rules to favor... large corps.

Two questions about Eve

1.  Go to the forums and say you are a new player and see what the first response you get is?  Join one of the large corps

2. Count how many signficant corps have been formed in the last 4 years.  All of the major players ( ie, the only ones involved with any type of political system)  are all from the very beginning.

Eve has a different map system, but the same thing is going to happen to PFO..  the entire ´political´ part of the game is going to be dominated by people who did the KS.  The entire map is going to be already carved up.  New players will be sheep.  And the old players, the ones who are rewarded for their KS loyalty, will be the ones making the rules to keep ti that way.  Do you really see any of the early players creating rules to limit the power of factions?  Do you think there will be any rules made that allow new factions to prosper?  No way, they are going to solidify their factions during the head-start, then they are going basically force new player to join one of the existing factions like what happens in EVE.

Yes, PFO will have a political system, and a land system... but anyone not involved with the head-start will never be involved with it.

 

 

Last time I checked EVE had hundred of thousands of customers (400k? 500k?). They started with 10k... probably less.  Seems like a LOT of people joined later and found it to be a fun game... amazingly enough.

 

Yes the Early Enrollment folks will help to define the setting in which the game starts.  At release it will be a living and breathing world with factions that are at odds with each other.  The difference between this and WoW is that the factions will be player created and the conflict will be player driven.  New people can join that conflict... for the long term or for a short term... and/or they can strike out on their own.  Settlements will be in developed areas.  As new areas are opened, Pioneers will be needed to settle those.  This isn't like Eve with warp engines.  Settlements and cities are not going to sprout legs and move.  The frontiers will be ever evolving and will provide an area for old and new to make their mark.

 

But we get it, you don't like the concepts.  Honestly, that's OK.  There are plenty of games that are out there.  Find one that you like!  $1,000,000 and growing (plus another $300k from the tech demo KS) show that there are folks who DO want a fantasy sandbox like this.  Let us have our sandbox and have fun in your game.  They are not mutually exclusive.

 

ok kid.  why are you even talking about WOW guilds..  I repeatedly used EVE as the example.  WOW is completely different.  Is that all you have to defend?  attacking WOW?

Eve has approximately 450k  accounts.  Accounts can be played using ingame currency.   You really need to do some research.  That is exactly the point I was trying to make.  Play EVE, join a corp.. and then see how many accounts the leaders have.  See how impossible it is to play solo, or to start a corp... you join the game, and the first thing you are told is to join one of the large corps.  You are then ushered around like a drone with no part at all in the political system.  That is my point, with the way they are going to do factions, along with the headstart, it is going to lead to a very inorganic political system for most of the players.

I love the idea of a sandbox, I would love a clean UO before they went diablo-loot system.  You are missing the point entirely by focusing so much on WOW, which is nothing I ever mentioned.   The problem with be the corp system.  The problem will be the few early corps taking the entire political system out of the game for almost all the members.  It is exactly what happened in EVE.  99% of the players know nothing about the political system except what they read afterwards.  The few corp leader that were there from the beginning completely control a large part of the game (the political aspect).

Either talk about EVE or UO... it is meaningless to compare anything in PFO to WOW.  

 

OK "KID" We get it.  We really really do!   You do not like the concept.  Honestly, we get it.  It doesn't make you a bad person.  lots of us DO like the concept.  We like it so much that we put up $1.4M and counting so far.

Go enjoy the game you like.  I assure you, we will be playing the one WE like as well :-)

Go check how darkfall did.  They raised 10M to launch their game.   AOC presold almost a million boxes, that is $40M in people prepaying.  That has absolutely no bearing on the success of a game.

This is what happened a few years ago with Darkfall.  So many people swarmed around the ´promise´ of a sandbox game with all the listed features we all dream of...  but you still have to have the people who can create it, balance it, and not fall into the exact same pitfalls that other games have fallen into with regards to factions and pvp.   you have to have people who objectively challenge design decisions, it sharpens the game.

And if your only counter to arguments is ´go play wow´.. then you are destined to fall into the category of Darkfall.   Just creating a game different from WOW does not mean the game will succeed.  There have been a ton of sandbox games that have failed badly.  There are a ton of lessons that can be learned from all those other sandbox games.

Every game that has been released in the past 5 years has had a ton of fanboys who defended their game by saying ´go play WOW´..  and almost everything that caused those games to fail had been brought up beforehand.  MMOs are a huge project, and if you want them to succeed, then systems should be debated, all sides should be examined.  Just blindly saying ´ok, this sounds like a good idea´.. and then following it up with ´go play wow if you don´t like it´...

well.  Darkfall  again.

Originally posted by Azrile

Go check how darkfall did.  They raised 10M to launch their game.   AOC presold almost a million boxes, that is $40M in people prepaying.  That has absolutely no bearing on the success of a game.

This is what happened a few years ago with Darkfall.  So many people swarmed around the ´promise´ of a sandbox game with all the listed features we all dream of...  but you still have to have the people who can create it, balance it, and not fall into the exact same pitfalls that other games have fallen into with regards to factions and pvp.   you have to have people who objectively challenge design decisions, it sharpens the game.

And if your only counter to arguments is ´go play wow´.. then you are destined to fall into the category of Darkfall.   Just creating a game different from WOW does not mean the game will succeed.  There have been a ton of sandbox games that have failed badly.  There are a ton of lessons that can be learned from all those other sandbox games.

Every game that has been released in the past 5 years has had a ton of fanboys who defended their game by saying ´go play WOW´..  and almost everything that caused those games to fail had been brought up beforehand.  MMOs are a huge project, and if you want them to succeed, then systems should be debated, all sides should be examined.  Just blindly saying ´ok, this sounds like a good idea´.. and then following it up with ´go play wow if you don´t like it´...

well.  Darkfall  again.

I don;t think my argument is "go play WOW".  I think my argument is "go play a game you enjoy" as you obviously do not like the way this one is being setup, yet feel compelled to continuously let us know.  We get it... really.   What you don't get is that the mechanics you DON'T like... are the ones we DO LIKE. 

Come back in 2015 and see the game we have helped CrowdForge.   

Originally posted by Azrile

Go check how darkfall did.  They raised 10M to launch their game.   AOC presold almost a million boxes, that is $40M in people prepaying.  That has absolutely no bearing on the success of a game.

This is what happened a few years ago with Darkfall.  So many people swarmed around the ´promise´ of a sandbox game with all the listed features we all dream of...  but you still have to have the people who can create it, balance it, and not fall into the exact same pitfalls that other games have fallen into with regards to factions and pvp.   you have to have people who objectively challenge design decisions, it sharpens the game.

And if your only counter to arguments is ´go play wow´.. then you are destined to fall into the category of Darkfall.   Just creating a game different from WOW does not mean the game will succeed.  There have been a ton of sandbox games that have failed badly.  There are a ton of lessons that can be learned from all those other sandbox games.

Every game that has been released in the past 5 years has had a ton of fanboys who defended their game by saying ´go play WOW´..  and almost everything that caused those games to fail had been brought up beforehand.  MMOs are a huge project, and if you want them to succeed, then systems should be debated, all sides should be examined.  Just blindly saying ´ok, this sounds like a good idea´.. and then following it up with ´go play wow if you don´t like it´...

well.  Darkfall  again.

They are aware of Darkfall crashing under the pressure of players and not recovering those sub members partly as a consequence. It's an additional reason for the "staggered"/Early Enrollment phase.

There's a few areas where I have concerns/reservations for PFO and agree as with any mmorpg high risk of failure/disappointment is always on the cards.

But the rewards on the ks alleviate somewhat as does being part of the process and finally the chance that fabled sandbox fantasy mmorpg will be made by an independent studio with creative license.

One hour left to get in on the HOT action!!!

Support your local RPG developers in creating their (and mine) dream MMORPG!

Crowdforge your way into Golarion.... Far far away from the corporate cash grab themeparks of the past!!

almost all KSs are like that.  The last 24hrs, and especially the last 3-4 can sometimes bring in 50% of the total.   I´ve never followed a KS and seen it fail at above 60%, and almost always it is a last day thing... definitely not linear.

I think they do it on purpose to give the devs and ulcer.

Originally posted by Dampyre
^ i had the same exact reaction i wonder if some really wealthy person coughed up the money ( less likely) or they were able to secure funding from some investor ( more likely)

You can look along the bottom right of the KS page it shows you at what levels people donated.  The big donors were all there from the beginning,.. the last 24hrs were almost all $100 and below donations.

I had actually pledged but then backed out before it hit $1 million and I'm glad I did.  I gave myself some time to dwell upon the design goals (some are so ambitious I don't think it will happen) and I concluded it's not the game for me.  I don't know a single FFA PvP system where it wasn't abused, no matter what kind of protections were placed.  People are exceedingly creative in their way to circumvent restrictions.

The other issue I had was the funding itself.  I just don't like KS too much, at least not the way it is now.  The idea of gathering consumers before the product is even made seems a bit bizarre to me.  I think KS exploits the frantic emotional consumer.  I understand that people who pledge are grown adults and can do whatever they want  with their money but I read some of the comments and it left me shaking my head.  There were people who pledged knowing they'd have to borrow (credit card) or have to explain it to an angry spouse or even eat bread and water for a month.  I suppose there's all types of people in the world.

At any rate, a company has to earn my business.  If they want me to finance them, I better get a percentage.

For those who pledged, I hope Paizo/GW makes the game you wanted and hope they don't have a 3rd KS drive...

Woke up this morning and saw that this made the goal. Great!

Then I saw the new poll for first big game addition and saw that Fast Travel & Mounts won.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Well let's hope they will create them in a way that does not make local markets, tactical movement in wars and travel obsolete.

Why are people in MMOs always in such a hurry? Especially in a game like this where your skill progress is tied to real time and there is little you can do to speed it up.

Originally posted by tom_gore

Woke up this morning and saw that this made the goal. Great!

Then I saw the new poll for first big game addition and saw that Fast Travel & Mounts won.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

 

Well let's hope they will create them in a way that does not make local markets, tactical movement in wars and travel obsolete.

Why are people in MMOs always in such a hurry? Especially in a game like this where your skill progress is tied to real time and there is little you can do to speed it up.

 

Well the first poll was actually regarding the next race being added (which is Gnome).  But yeah, I agree.   Mounts are a good feature if done right.  Fast Travel has to be implemented VERY carefully... otherwise as you say.. it destroys the whole reason behind local banking etc...

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by tom_gore

Woke up this morning and saw that this made the goal. Great!

Then I saw the new poll for first big game addition and saw that Fast Travel & Mounts won.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

 

Well let's hope they will create them in a way that does not make local markets, tactical movement in wars and travel obsolete.

Why are people in MMOs always in such a hurry? Especially in a game like this where your skill progress is tied to real time and there is little you can do to speed it up.

 

Well the first poll was actually regarding the next race being added (which is Gnome).  But yeah, I agree.   Mounts are a good feature if done right.  Fast Travel has to be implemented VERY carefully... otherwise as you say.. it destroys the whole reason behind local banking etc...

 

 

calm down guys, found this on top of page 2.