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Hardware  » tip for best quality (graphic)

14 posts found
  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7939

 
OP  1/11/13 9:42:38 PM#1

ok guys!i keep seeing people (windows)having relativly lower quality then expected of a given set up!

first tip:you will either need to calibrate your screen etc with window color system tool made just for this.or you will need to read this site:ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/srgb-profile-comparison.html

 

sorry i dont supply the whole link,you can google !bottom line the guy there suggest this sRGB profile :Argyllcms.(argyllcms.com/)avail for linux,mac and windows.i cover windows because i know srgb on winodws default or calibrated is lower quality then this one.i wont go into detail all the info is readily avail on the web suffice it to say it is a black scaling issue and the way mathematic is being calculated(less precise then needed).but then no surprise there was no 1080p when srgb was cooked back then the precision was enough but as we clearly see these days it isnt.i tested adobe rgb 1998.and a whole lot of other .icc srgb also show issue.maybe ms will tweak their srgb/scrgb in a near futur ,they seem to be way more agile these days at tweaking stuff then they used to.if you use this profile dont forget to unlock it. by the way in that download this file will be in the ref ,start from bottom of the list it should be the forth one starting from bottom it will say srgb iec61966-2.1 (equivalent to www.srgb.com 1998 hp profile)this is the one you select as per windows instruction of installation of color profile.if any could supply video of it (preferably streamer)i would like to know also the difference since what i mention was tested by me on gw2 .this will fix the shadow ,lighting ,alpha(transparency)etc everything at the subpixel level should look better.can you imagine that guy found 15 different version of srgb,gees technicly there shouldnt even be 2 version since this is supposed to be a  standard.grin.anyway see you in game!sorry for long post but i felt this was important since we all get standard look on our high definition set-up (1080p or 1080i)enjoy guys,i sure do!

 
  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7939

 
OP  1/16/13 3:05:23 PM#2
also you might need to use icc instead of srgb!i ll keep looking for srgb version since i checked the number my self and even the one i supplied isnt accurate as should be .the issue seam to stem from the fact that a lot of srgb version use the simpified mat to do everything.wich was fine in the past but now a day simplified is a nono!espacially with the ultrahd just around the corner as you saw on the site i supplied everything need to be 100% not simplifiied srgb standard spec or ton of secondary reflective color surface issue are lost and if you add the streaming into the mix this become a huge problem!from what i saw accuracy to .xxxx should be high enough for hd,this might change tho for 2560x 1440 or this year flavor of the year 3840x2160!hopefully this will get fixed or explained properlly by ms and/or hp!since they re the one with srgb (wich is the base for scrgb)this is why this issue of srgb need to be fixed ,because srgb (via scrgb)isnt going anywhere anytime soon)
  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3339

1/16/13 4:26:46 PM#3

You know, screen color calibrations are not supposed to be generic. They are intended to be device specific. Each monitor has slight irregularities to it that can cause it's color to be individual and unique. A color calibration uses a set of patterns and colors, and usually an electronic color meter, in order to calibrate the meter so it can display colors in a uniform and standard way.

It's particularly important in the graphics design and printing industry: when you design a layout, and it calls for Pantone 17-5641, and that looks like a shade of sea foam green on your monitor, but it comes back from the printers being deep emerald green and clashing with the dress your model is wearing, it's a big deal.

Color calibration ensures that Pantone 17-5641 looks the same on your monitor as it does the next monitor, as it does on the printer, as it does for the dress.

So downloading a pre-configured color calibration may change the color on your monitor, and you may like it better (or worse), but it by no means implies that you have somehow calibrated your monitor, or that the results will be the same for everyone out there.

Windows will use a default generic color calibration that is usually in the ballpark, and monitors come pre-configured usually to look bright and overly saturated (so they look good on the showroom floor). What it really boils down to, though, is what looks good to you, unless you happen to be in the business that color matching is critical.

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7939

 
OP  1/17/13 8:37:40 AM#4
but ser ,srgb is a standard even scrgb use it has a base,if its a standard wouldnt everything be the same.the link i supplied showed sao many difference (and they all say they are srgb)my point is microsoft should clarifie so we know .what i did?i did as icc recommended i calibrated my monitor with window color profile tool (ya not very precise ,especially the first thing)but it is the best compromise!do i get better result with the one i supplied?yes!but for now game graphic arent high enough in quality that it will mather.but in the futur ?i wouldnt be sor sure!since srgb is the base of scrgb ,microsoft or hp aught to revisit srgb and clear up the mess ,a lot of people feel most of the srgb stuff was meant for crt .anyway this will be my last post on the subject .my recommendation?calibrate your monitor srgb.and use the profile i supplied if you got a very high quality game with lot of shadow,transparency and various layer on top of the other (or photo)for the rest stick to calibration.dont use the default srgb out of the box in any window copy!
  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1844

1/17/13 9:01:22 AM#5

Yikes.

ENTER is your friend. Thats hard to even read o.O

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7939

 
OP  5/22/13 7:07:28 AM#6
Ok !I revisit this thread to let you know my best result thrust far.

First if you use amd graphic card (non-integrated!I don't know how integrated behave)I use a sapphire 7950.do not use amd supplied driver.update to the latest via ms.I don't know why,but ms version and amd version aren't recognise the same way by screen.you all need the sRGB version from color .org .for game I got best result with their non -blackscaled version set to relative.the various issue I got at the sub pixel were because blackest was not set to screen value instead of 0 .whitest was not to screen max value ,instead of 255! gamma value was also wrong because of this (still an issue since relative is just a cheat not a real fix.lastly I ain't sure but I think that 255 maximum possible shade of color aren't being avail.
Meaning how it should be theoricly be:(sRGB) 3 to 252 (actual max screen possibility),with 255 possibility, within the 3 to 252 range,second gamma value need to be put at the 3 to 252 possibility range ,not 0 to 255 (CRT)but it still need to have 255 possibility.as for the amd issue.I think it is just that the various screen don't understand what amd is saying to it (color profile wise)but said screen does understand what window say to it (w8 64 bit)if any have a newer version of sRGB from ms, feel free to supply link.(same with scrgb since this also affect scrgb)
  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7939

 
OP  5/27/13 6:40:41 AM#7

I received a bios update this month from asus !and it fixed a lot of issue I had!sadly the color profile problem is still there

but now I can cheat by using 1080i and it looks like everything is fixed.i think the issue is the gpu is faster then the color profile and it cant keep up!because it doesn't do the problem when I use 1080i!so I ll use 1080i till ms find a way to speed up the wcs system!at least one way work 100% at 1080 and no shadow and light issue!cheer!i wont post again on this (unless ms find a way to speed up wcs so it can keep up with gpu!)

  jabhamano

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/13
Posts: 18

5/27/13 9:47:51 AM#8

omg. spend tons of money on pc, games should work fine. there is no shortcuts just like with diet ;D

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3766

5/27/13 10:10:19 AM#9

There is so much wrong with these rambling posts I don't even know where to start.

1. I have been using my PC and several monitors for decades for photo editing.

2. There are 2 things that are important for your monitor to show accurate colors: a) The monitor itself  has to be capable of doing it. Which is why those of us who care and obsess about this spend a bit more money for good IPS (the best type of LCD technology as opposed to the mass-produced TN in cheap monitors) panels and b) frequent calibration of the monitor using a colorimeter hardware device which together with software produces an icc profile that is custom tailored to your monitor in your viewing conditions (room ambient light matters.)

3. Anything else - such as trying to do it visually or using someone else's icc profile-- is a kludge and mostly useless nonsense.

4. If anyone here is actually interested in calibrating a monitor, spend the equivalent of 2 or 3 video games and get this: http://www.amazon.com/Datacolor-Spyder4Express-S4X100-Display-Calibration/dp/B006TF3746/ref=pd_cp_p_2

5. If you're not interested, don't sweat it: your monitor, video cards and Windows, by default, get you in the general ballpark.

6. And if you're not really serious about your photography, stay away from monitors that are featured to have aRGB (Adobe RGB monitors) or "near-aRGB" color capabilities. Get those only if you are willing to calibrate it on a regular basis or you could actually end up with a more expensive monitor that by default doesn't look quite as good as the cheaper sRGB models. aRGB has its uses in photo editing work if you really know what you're doing but it's otherwise a marketing feature that will just confuse you...you have been warned :)

  Cleffy

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5496

5/27/13 8:48:35 PM#10
Once I calibrated my monitor with a Pantone Color Calibrator, I learned that nearly all monitors are not calibrated.  I would make a picture that looked fine on my calibrated monitor, print it and it looks fine printed, look on another monitor and the colors are really dark, and get responses from people looking at it with their monitor that its dark.
  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7939

 
OP  5/28/13 10:48:01 AM#11

sadly I ended up reverting to a Toshiba good old hdtv 23sl1350uc!instead of my ips235v .

I tried everything!on paper people say it is ton better!but me in real world ?I just get better quality on toshibe true the lowest black and highest white are clipped but if dev know what they re doing this isn't a biggy!caution tho!on this unit (the screen)it has a display of what is actually going on!

 

in gpu make sure you stick to ycbcr 4.4.4 if this is what you ll need !yes I know some say use ycbcr 4.2.2 since it is clipped etc

that is an urban legend

what will actually happen if you use 4.4.4?you ll be at 30 bit

if you use 4.2.2?you ll be at 24 bit!plain and simple!

and if you aren't at 30 bit!the whole point of using this a hdtv!(scrgb)

I didn't know this tiny part!

  Cleffy

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/04
Posts: 5496

5/28/13 11:53:30 AM#12
Using 10 bits per channel instead of 8 bits per channel is a bit unusual.
  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3339

5/29/13 9:31:16 AM#13

Many professional level monitors do it (commonly called Deep Color, as opposed to the standard 24-bit True Color that most people use) - for people that do a lot of work that involves close color matching (design, CGI special effects, post-production, etc), and color precision can even go beyond (some image formats support up to 64-bits of color precision).

Most video cards offer support already, but most monitors are only 20 bit (cheaper TN panels, which use dithering to "simulate" the missing 4 bits) or 24 bit (better TN panels, IPS panels, etc). Most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between even the cheaper 20-bit and a 30-bit display.

Why this matters to our dear Doctor I don't really know - maybe he is really a Mantis Shrimp, which would explain many of these posts.

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7939

 
OP  6/17/13 3:17:37 AM#14

ok !my issue with this is mostly fixed (ips235v)tested with the color.org profile v4 and it fixed all the issue but the black scale and white scale!hopefully color.org will release one so we can test but I did test with v2 and it fixed party the issue since white scale is still at 255 instead of the screen max value(could be wrong here)anyway .case closed.nothing more can be done till color.org release a non scaled (white and black)version of srgb v4 hopefully  in percepetual and d65!

 

i might go grab a 100% compliant srgb screen!this ips235v is only 72% compliant from what the manufactuer say !some site tested and max they could achieve was 3 to 252.ya you loose a lot of quality with value like these!