I don't give a shit about what developers want/love/enjoy/find easy to program, unless it's in alignment with what I want.

When that happens, a magical process occurs wherein my wallet is opened, and the game guys get to keep their light bill paid.

Originally posted by ignore_me

I don't give a shit about what developers want/love/enjoy/find easy to program, unless it's in alignment with what I want.

When that happens, a magical process occurs wherein my wallet is opened, and the game guys get to keep their light bill paid.

You should. You'd be more understanding and a lot happier.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by ignore_me

I don't give a shit about what developers want/love/enjoy/find easy to program, unless it's in alignment with what I want.

When that happens, a magical process occurs wherein my wallet is opened, and the game guys get to keep their light bill paid.

You should. You'd be more understanding and a lot happier.

No, it's a job. There is a paycheck. Output is all that matters unless I'm in human resources at the company where the monitor monkeys work.

To me they're just there to put something out. If that thing sucks, then their work sucks.

No adulation.

No handholding or coddling.

Hard work?

Go work in some other field.

"When that happens, a magical process occurs wherein my wallet is opened, and the game guys get to keep their light bill paid."

That magic already exists, it is called pre-order.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Yamota

No, just no. MMORPG were about creating virtual worlds which you live in rather than being the center of the world where you are the hero, savior etc. That idea has been hijacked by big money corps who are taking a single player game and putting it on a central server and then label it an MMORPG.

And at the same time there isn't a single well funded, triple A sandbox MMORPG short of Eve which is a very nische type of MMO and also years and years old.

So no, this is not the golden age of MMO's, it is the dark ages of MMO's.

Says you?

There is no "virtual world" in "MMORPG" .. but the word "game" is there. No one says you have to have a virtual world. It is just games with lots of players, who can play together.

It is the golden age precisely because devs realize that they are not shackled by having to have a virtual world all the time.

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Yamota

No, just no. MMORPG were about creating virtual worlds which you live in rather than being the center of the world where you are the hero, savior etc. That idea has been hijacked by big money corps who are taking a single player game and putting it on a central server and then label it an MMORPG.

And at the same time there isn't a single well funded, triple A sandbox MMORPG short of Eve which is a very nische type of MMO and also years and years old.

So no, this is not the golden age of MMO's, it is the dark ages of MMO's.

Says you?

There is no "virtual world" in "MMORPG" .. but the word "game" is there. No one says you have to have a virtual world. It is just games with lots of players, who can play together.

It is the golden age precisely because devs realize that they are not shackled by having to have a virtual world all the time.

 

You need to read up on what a mmorpg is.

I did. Did you? An industry analytics site like newzoo would classify LOL and WOT, games without virtual world, as MMOs. Feel free to go to their website and look it up.

I wouldn't say this is the goldent age for MMO's but merely for themepark MMO's, Now I say this because we don't see a healthy mix of both sandbox MMOs, themepark MMOs, and Mix/match MMOs.

I also think we are close to the point were MMOs are gonna start experimenting more with revolutionizing some of the stagnet mechinics that have been in use for the past couple years. As we have seen with games like tera that have got rid of the tab targeting and swtor that have added voice acting to all quests and added the bioware touch of choice of dialog.

Now about your post, you seem very heavy on the themepark side which is fine but what about sandbox lovers, is xyson. the only one that was worthy of your list. Are there not sandbox games that focus more on PVP, what about PVE, or even Virtual world games?

Golden Age = Best there ever was, and only way to go is down.

So, what the OP is saying is that we will never get anything better than what we have now? ... I am skeptical by nature, but even i wont go as far as predicting that in the future we will never have anything better than what is out there now.

Personally, I can't wait until technology catches up to what my dream games would be. Fully inmersive 3D projections that require full physical movements and where your virtual world actions affect the overall virtual world. Dawning my mages' robes in that world would be totally epic. *queue Star Trek'esk holodecks*

Originally posted by Scot

"When that happens, a magical process occurs wherein my wallet is opened, and the game guys get to keep their light bill paid."

That magic already exists, it is called pre-order.

If that pre-order money powers the game in totality then good for them, they found an advantage and won.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

No, it's a job. There is a paycheck. Output is all that matters unless I'm in human resources at the company where the monitor monkeys work.

To me they're just there to put something out. If that thing sucks, then their work sucks.

No adulation.

No handholding or coddling.

 

Hard work?

Go work in some other field.

It helps if you understood even the basics. You understand why buildings have to be built on solid ground, have to have foundations, sometimes steel reinforcement, where do you start and which order do you build your house. Almost everyone can atleast guess how all this works and why.

But when many people understand construction, very few understand software development. People who don't understand demand that they should start with the roof and that the whole thing should be made of entirely of glass and be 100 stories high. And then they complain how they didn't get their glass tower. Thats you.

Originally posted by Quirhid

It helps if you understood even the basics. You understand why buildings have to be built on solid ground, have to have foundations, sometimes steel reinforcement, where do you start and which order do you build your house. Almost everyone can atleast guess how all this works and why.

 

This is the thing, and maybe off topic to that discussion you are having right now, but one of the arguments around is that the foundation is to shallow because the company had to save on cost and does not really expect the house to last more than a limited time, for which the foundation is enough.

In this sense it can be argued that due to much less information available (market research, experience with massive games), the foundations were much deeper and more solid in the past, "just in case". :)

Flame on!

:)

Originally posted by Banaghran

In this sense it can be argued that due to much less information available (market research, experience with massive games), the foundations were much deeper and more solid in the past, "just in case". :)

uh? Wouldn't market research and experience be much better NOW than in the past? In fact, there is no MMO market research firm then, and there is now.

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by Quirhid

This is the thing, and maybe off topic to that discussion you are having right now, but one of the arguments around is that the foundation is to shallow because the company had to save on cost and does not really expect the house to last more than a limited time, for which the foundation is enough.

In this sense it can be argued that due to much less information available (market research, experience with massive games), the foundations were much deeper and more solid in the past, "just in case". :)

Flame on!

:)

Its not that. No one makes anything "just in case". When you have a limited budget and time, you do what you can and hope all of it shows in the final product. Today's games actually have budget to do market research, but like always, customers have trouble expressing exactly what they want. Past games had the advantage of being the first, or if they didn't have that, they were stabs in the dark. Quite a few of developers turned out to be one-hit-wonders. It rises a question: Did they know what they were doing back then?

Going won't certainly help. Coming up with something completely new is the key, I think.

Golden age? It basically made me quit mmorpgs. For the first time in 10 years I'm not playing a mmorpg, or looking forward to one.

I'm tired and bored of looking forward to mmorpgs that cant hold me for more than one month and have no longevity, seems like they are either these burger one trick pony mmorpgs that you "complete" in one month or crappy low budget bad looking sandboxes with twitchy low quality animations and just low quality everything.

It's almost a relief sort of, I've missed many great *singplayer games and it's very fun to play high quality games more for a change that feel good for what they are. Also leaves me more time to do other things, yay. It's getting quite a bit more expensive though even when I mostly buy them from Steam sale or similar.

I enjoyed Planetside 2 longer than an average mmorpg and still looking forward to play it actively once the metagame and few other issues gets solved. Cannot wait for Aliens: Colonial Marines next month, and I might even get Deadspace 3 for the coop, havent played Deadspace before but it sounds nice. Walking Dead waiting on the HD also, waiting for the right mood for it :)

Good times ahead, maybe in some distant future I can I say the same for some new mmorpg(s).

Edit: *rather "smaller scale games" actually instead "singleplayer games", since these games usually comes with very fun multiplayer to last about the same time as these new generation crap-pile mmorpgs.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

No, it's a job. There is a paycheck. Output is all that matters unless I'm in human resources at the company where the monitor monkeys work.

To me they're just there to put something out. If that thing sucks, then their work sucks.

No adulation.

No handholding or coddling.

 

Hard work?

Go work in some other field.

It helps if you understood even the basics. You understand why buildings have to be built on solid ground, have to have foundations, sometimes steel reinforcement, where do you start and which order do you build your house. Almost everyone can atleast guess how all this works and why.

But when many people understand construction, very few understand software development. People who don't understand demand that they should start with the roof and that the whole thing should be made of entirely of glass and be 100 stories high. And then they complain how they didn't get their glass tower. Thats you.

Ooh you're obviously very smart. I guess I shouldn't have any opinion on games because I don't program games. Are you serious? There may be cost/technical reasons for something sucking, but it still sucks. The people who made it don't deserve an award for doing their job (getting paid) and then sucking at it.

Originally posted by eddieg50
Like I said on page one, this is the beauty of MMO's today. They are free or close to it, There are story mmo's, traditional mmo's, super combat and graphics mmo's, sandboxes, mmo's with great crafting and harvesting, and mmo's with some great PvP action-It really is the Golden Age of Pay nothing mmo's.

If you do want to spend money you have excellent sand boxes like Eve and Darkfall or you can go back to the most traditional of all themepark mmo's EQ and see where it all started, they even brought back the classic sand box Asherons Call 2--Enjoy

But we really haven't gotten to the golden age as we are not at the point where there is is a no more room to improve, or even reached a point where there is very little room for improvement.

Originally posted by Phelcher


A mmorpg is a persistant world.. a virtual world. Instancing is just a business decision to fake a persitant world, which over the years gained traction due to most games going massive online arcade games. Not worlds like on the past.
 

LOL .. past is gone. You just can't deal with progress.

WOW is a MMO .. mostly a lobby game now. So is DDO, and many other MMOs.  Virtual world is just not that important. You can bitch and moan .. old failed ideas are not coming back.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Phelcher


A mmorpg is a persistant world.. a virtual world. Instancing is just a business decision to fake a persitant world, which over the years gained traction due to most games going massive online arcade games. Not worlds like on the past.
 

LOL .. past is gone. You just can't deal with progress.

WOW is a MMO .. mostly a lobby game now. So is DDO, and many other MMOs.  Virtual world is just not that important. You can bitch and moan .. old failed ideas are not coming back.

 

Virtual world isnt the past, the future is making it better not getting rid of it lol. You cant have a mmorpg without a world. Whats wrong with you? You cant even tell the difference between lobby game, mmo, mmorpg, and single player with mp support games. You try so hard to get people to buy into what you are saying, but your logic is severely flawed. The future is better games not your f2p lobby junk games. Just because you like to bounce around from free game to free game doesnt mean everyone does. We want better for our mmorpgs, even if you dont. Every post you write is always negative towards games 95% of us like here and want to get better, perhaps you should be more open minded.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Phelcher


A mmorpg is a persistant world.. a virtual world. Instancing is just a business decision to fake a persitant world, which over the years gained traction due to most games going massive online arcade games. Not worlds like on the past.
 

LOL .. past is gone. You just can't deal with progress.

WOW is a MMO .. mostly a lobby game now. So is DDO, and many other MMOs.  Virtual world is just not that important. You can bitch and moan .. old failed ideas are not coming back.

 

But without a persistant world you do lose some of the RPG aspect of an MMORPG. I'm not saying that without persistant world you don't have a MMORPG. But more that without a world for players to interact with you limit the RP aspect of RPG and focus more so on making it gamey(?).

I mean without a presistent world you really just have players, soloing or grouping up to play levels, with no other purpose but to get gear and move to the next set of content.

edit: so yes you can have a MMO without a persistent world but an MMORPG is a different beast entirely in the fact that you have to promote the Roleplaying apsect along side the game aspect and persistent worlds are one solution in providing a balance between the two.