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General Discussion  » Despite everything that has been sead, can't we agree that GW2 is a success?

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144 posts found
  Torgir

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 27

1/12/13 8:41:36 AM#81

I reckon we consumers are mainly concerned about our personal view on the success. What else matters? I for one don't bother myself worrying about Anet's financial status. If the game goes down or the crowd thins out, there's a dozen others I can play. No one needs another person to tell them whether GW2 is a "personal success" for them. I enjoy it occasionally but find it a bit too shallow for longer exposure. 

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

 
OP  1/12/13 8:41:50 AM#82
Originally posted by DMKano
We cannot agree, that much is certain.

 

If all humankind could all agree the world would be a paradise or a nuclear wasteland.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6411

1/12/13 8:50:18 AM#83
Originally posted by ashleymorrow
Originally posted by eyelolled

  I have definately received the $80 of value for my costs to buy the game. 

 

I just had to single this out because it is how I measure a game's "success". I picked up GW2 for a really low price online and played it for like 8 hours yesterday on and off.

So far I've paid someting akin to $3.00/hour to be entertained. After today that number will get even lower.

So if I quit, even in a month, I've certainly gotten my money's worth. Much cheaper than a movie and more value.

 

The comparison to a movie as far as value comes up a lot - however there have been times that a movie had a lot more impact on me than even mmorpgs I played for years.

Of course most times the movies are generic pieces of trash that leave no lasting impression.

I am still yet to play a mmorpg that had as much impact on me as the first time I watched Space odessey 2001, no MMO has even come close, so I could say that the value I got there has not been matched yet (probably never will, no game can touch that masterpiece)

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2266

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

1/12/13 8:50:40 AM#84
Originally posted by DamonVile
You don't understand....people here think if a game isn't right for them it's a failure and the devs did it all wrong. It doesn't matter that they made millions and it was a massive financial success....the game should have been made for just them.

Not all of us.

I happen to think the devs put together a cohesive, well-thought out game with lots of innovation....

.....that I happen not to enjoy.

And I can admit it is a success.

  aslan132

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/07
Posts: 332

1/12/13 9:08:23 AM#85

Sure we all measure success differently. Anet is a company, if they dont measure success (at least to some degree) financially, they are doing it wrong. Me, being a player, I dont make money off the game, why would I measure success the same way they do? Success to me is entertainment value. Making sure I get what i paid for and then some.

 

Financially, i think we all agree, GW2 is a success. There can be little doubt they have made a buttload of money. I assume they are turning a profit, I honestly never cared enough to look. I know Bioware failed with SWTOR because they never actually made a profit. Cost of production was huge, and the game just didnt live up. I dont believe thats the case here. So is GW2 a success, looking from Anets eyes, I would say yes.. but we arent Anet are we...

 

Now the tricky part. This is where everyone differs. Different people expected different things from the game, and therefore thier measure of success may or may not have been filled. But thats not something you can come onto public forums and demand that your version is the only true form, and everyone else is invalid. 

 

I went in expecting something new. Call it innovation if you will, but thats your word not mine. Did GW2 offer something new, new mechanics or systems or ways of doing things differently. Youre damn right they did. Ive played over 50 MMOs (yes thats alot lol), and I measure all of them the same. Am i having fun? Do i get what i paid for, and do i have to pay more to enjoy it more? The second part of that is easy. Is it Pay to Win, do you have to shell out money to be competitive, and will it cost more for this so-called "free" game than it would for a subscription? If the answer to any part of that is yes, then Im almost immediately done with the game. Lucky that GW2 doesnt fall anywhere near that. So on to the first part. 

 

This is where we start looking for things that are different. First, theres harvesting. Sure this is a minor thing, but anyone who loves crafting, and hates having thier nodes stolen, knows exactly what im talking about. This is the first MMO ive played thats allowed everyone to gather from the same nodes individually. Innovation? Well actually it is, doing the same thing, but better. Remember its innovation, not invention. Quests, sure they are still present, sort of, but again, innovation. Presenting the same thing, but in a new and better way. Quest hubs are a terrible idea, turning quests in is just annoying, and even worse are the games that REQUIRE you complete everything from one hub before you can move to the next, regardless of your level. GW2 offers you freedom of movement. Thats the 3rd innovation. There isnt a linear path from hub to hub or even zone to zone. There are multiple zones of the same level range, and the zones themselves can be done anyway you want. Clockwise, counterclockwise, zig zagging, heart to heart (although i dont recommend this, sure you can play it that way). You dont get that in other MMOs. Also on the freedom of movement is exploration and jumping puzzles. Sure not everyone enjoys them, they are a novelty, but thats the pure definition of innovation. 

 

In conclusion, this is gettting long, GW2 is a success. Its a financial success to Anet (or anyone who measures it that way). And its a personal success for its entertainment and innovation. Its exactly what was hyped, its what i expected going into beta, and its exactly what i paid for. They have made wonderful changes to the way other MMOs approach things like quests, crafting and exploration. We can only hope that other MMOs take notes and include some of this into thier games. There were still many more items to include, such as the actual crafting process, sharing (full) loot with other players, and the amount of content available on a release. All innovative, all doing things better than other MMOs have done, all leading to the success of GW2.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6411

1/12/13 9:12:26 AM#86
Originally posted by Torgrim
Originally posted by DMKano
We cannot agree, that much is certain.

 

If all humankind could all agree the world would be a paradise or a nuclear wasteland.

And either way our entire existence as a species would still be insignificant and irrelevant.

Humanity is stricken with a fatal flaw where we feel like we are of some high importance in the universe, we even invented this notion that some super powerful creator has a special place for us - complete delusion of self importance.

We are not important, the universe does not depend on our existence nor our survival.

This doesn't mean that we should all give up, no we should still strive for evolving past our limitations, but maybe one day we drop this pretense that we as species are special somehow.

Thanks for listening,

Jack Handey

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 550

1/12/13 9:19:24 AM#87

This is a forum where the fastest selling PC game of all time is routinely, if bizarrely, accepted as a complete and utter failure, so it's kind of amusing to see so many act as though there's some objective standard by which no one could possibly question GW2's "success".

Given that we'll never have the kinds of metrics by which we could really judge success in any meaningful sense -- concurrent logon rate over time, box sales over time, in-game item sales over time, actual cost to keep the game running, et al -- the best we can do is guess -- and it's really nothing more than a guess. Is the game a financial success? Pulling numbers out of our arse, probably, albeit not extraordinarily so.

However the same, frankly, can be said of just about every other MMO out there that has launched recently and been deemed a failure on these boards.

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 1013

1/12/13 9:33:38 AM#88
Originally posted by aslan132

Sure we all measure success differently. Anet is a company, if they dont measure success (at least to some degree) financially, they are doing it wrong. Me, being a player, I dont make money off the game, why would I measure success the same way they do? Success to me is entertainment value. Making sure I get what i paid for and then some.

 

Financially, i think we all agree, GW2 is a success. There can be little doubt they have made a buttload of money. I assume they are turning a profit, I honestly never cared enough to look. I know Bioware failed with SWTOR because they never actually made a profit. Cost of production was huge, and the game just didnt live up. I dont believe thats the case here. So is GW2 a success, looking from Anets eyes, I would say yes.. but we arent Anet are we...

 

Now the tricky part. This is where everyone differs. Different people expected different things from the game, and therefore thier measure of success may or may not have been filled. But thats not something you can come onto public forums and demand that your version is the only true form, and everyone else is invalid. 

 

I went in expecting something new. Call it innovation if you will, but thats your word not mine. Did GW2 offer something new, new mechanics or systems or ways of doing things differently. Youre damn right they did. Ive played over 50 MMOs (yes thats alot lol), and I measure all of them the same. Am i having fun? Do i get what i paid for, and do i have to pay more to enjoy it more? The second part of that is easy. Is it Pay to Win, do you have to shell out money to be competitive, and will it cost more for this so-called "free" game than it would for a subscription? If the answer to any part of that is yes, then Im almost immediately done with the game. Lucky that GW2 doesnt fall anywhere near that. So on to the first part. 

 

This is where we start looking for things that are different. First, theres harvesting. Sure this is a minor thing, but anyone who loves crafting, and hates having thier nodes stolen, knows exactly what im talking about. This is the first MMO ive played thats allowed everyone to gather from the same nodes individually. Innovation? Well actually it is, doing the same thing, but better. Remember its innovation, not invention. Quests, sure they are still present, sort of, but again, innovation. Presenting the same thing, but in a new and better way. Quest hubs are a terrible idea, turning quests in is just annoying, and even worse are the games that REQUIRE you complete everything from one hub before you can move to the next, regardless of your level. GW2 offers you freedom of movement. Thats the 3rd innovation. There isnt a linear path from hub to hub or even zone to zone. There are multiple zones of the same level range, and the zones themselves can be done anyway you want. Clockwise, counterclockwise, zig zagging, heart to heart (although i dont recommend this, sure you can play it that way). You dont get that in other MMOs. Also on the freedom of movement is exploration and jumping puzzles. Sure not everyone enjoys them, they are a novelty, but thats the pure definition of innovation. 

 

In conclusion, this is gettting long, GW2 is a success. Its a financial success to Anet (or anyone who measures it that way). And its a personal success for its entertainment and innovation. Its exactly what was hyped, its what i expected going into beta, and its exactly what i paid for. They have made wonderful changes to the way other MMOs approach things like quests, crafting and exploration. We can only hope that other MMOs take notes and include some of this into thier games. There were still many more items to include, such as the actual crafting process, sharing (full) loot with other players, and the amount of content available on a release. All innovative, all doing things better than other MMOs have done, all leading to the success of GW2.

I dont know if you are being sarcastic. The problem with GW2 was actually, that nothing in the game was new or innovative it was pretty much a Daoc, Rift and warhammer remake, but from a casual point of view. I mean the Population drop of active players after the 1st weeks in GW2 was just huge,  you can find ome graphics and statics about that in the web, as an example the population on swtor was stable for like 3 - 4 months, on GW2 that drop was in less than a month, as a P2P game gw2 would have been a total failure, because the game have no player retention, people get bored and fast. But everyone can agree that GW2 was a financial success, like D3, ME3 etc, even like SWTOR a P2P MMO, but talking about player retention and active players, it was a real success?.  

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 550

1/12/13 9:38:43 AM#89
Originally posted by aslan132

Financially, i think we all agree, GW2 is a success. There can be little doubt they have made a buttload of money. I assume they are turning a profit, I honestly never cared enough to look. I know Bioware failed with SWTOR because they never actually made a profit. Cost of production was huge, and the game just didnt live up. I dont believe thats the case here. So is GW2 a success, looking from Anets eyes, I would say yes.. but we arent Anet are we...

The problem is you don't "know" that Bioware never actually made a profit, you know neither the cost of production (despite the numbers thrown around here routinely as "fact") nor how much they made initially.

We do know they didn't make as much as they'd projected, and that management felt it necessary to make fairly radical changes in order to assure a long-term revenue stream, but those are seperate issues from whether or not the game is or ever has made a profit.

Similarly, assurances that GW2 is making a profit are based on assumptions, guesses, and the state of one's feelings about the game and Anet, more than they are on any hard facts. What was the overal development cost of GW2? No one here knows.

No one here knows if GW2 (or, for that matter, ToR) has turned a profit. We can make guesses based on assumptions and what (extremely) few carefully worded facts can be gleaned from financials, which is fine since those are likely all we'll ever have and it's not like in the end this discussion matters anyway, but it is foolish to act as if anything based mostly on guesses and assumptions is, or can be, fact.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5526

1/12/13 9:51:22 AM#90
I don't think GW2 is in any danger of imminent failure, and i also don't think that any game needs to have millions of players to be classed as a success, its inevitable with the proliferation of MMO's that games will become more 'niche' orientated than ever, and GW2 does fill a certain 'niche' of player types, as do games like Eve online, DDO etc. GW2 was a success, despite the fact that the game developed along lines that i disagreed with, i can appreciate it for what it is, even though i will never play it myself.
  mgilbrtsn

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/14/09
Posts: 1304

He who fights and runs away... misses out on the loot

1/12/13 9:55:15 AM#91
Without knowing specifics on how much money they have made, there is noway to evaluate its success or failure.  Ultimately, that is the only way to judge this.  Everything else is anecdotal.

They are coming for you!

  jtcgs

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

1/12/13 10:05:00 AM#92

A games SUCCESS does not depend on how many people are playing in the middle part of it.

A games SUCCESS does not depend on YOUR personal opinion of it.

A games SUCCESS requires high box sales.

A games SUCCESS requires a decent retention rate of those people that played the game.

A games SUCCESS requires a somewhat steady flow of new players coming in to replace those going out.

 

Right now, none of you can say how many people are still playing. Your OPINION is noted as just that...not being a FACT. Just like if I were to say that my server has NOT seen a big drop in players, it HAS seen a BIG increase of people doing mostly fractals or WvW...yet at almost any time I can go to any of the Orr zones and join a zerg.

There has NEVER been an MMORPG released that was NOT a sandbox that did not have near empty mid level zones 4-6 months after release. That is what happens when the majority of the player base hits max level and because so many players are LOCKED in their ways, they view those zones as being pointless even though this game drops your level down to keep the challenge up.

“I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  Keushpuppy

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/03
Posts: 110

1/12/13 10:10:50 AM#93
no
  ScaryMonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/12/13
Posts: 102

1/12/13 10:18:12 AM#94
Originally posted by Torgrim

Haters to the left fanboys to the right mmorpg.com in the middle where are we going?

The thing is whatever you feel, GW2 is a succesful game, not the game but for what it is.

Anet manage to launch a B2P AAA MMORPG with more content and free content to date (so far) than most other MMOs have so early after release.

Yes some of you see me as a fanboy and In a way I am beacuse this is the first MMO in many years I have felt a breeze of fresh air from that pool of clone swamp.

If you don't like it, then It is ok, there is no game to this date that everyone likes we all have our own idea and feeling what we want in a game, and no my dream MMO is not even close to GW2 but it has taken the right path to it.

I see a bright future for GW2.

 

haha.  You have to laugh.  All I see is post after post from fanbois and haters.  Who cares, I mean truly?  Just play it if you like it and don't if you don't.   Why am I even responding?  Dam, I have been drawn into this pointless argument.  

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

1/12/13 11:00:58 AM#95

Anet didn't fire anyone and instead are hiring, so:

a) they are deluded and soon will fire people.

b) they are making more than enough money not only to recoup the investment but to expand.

Just as an indication:

Bioware was first hit by lay-offs by April 2012, 4 months after SWTOR hit the market.

Funcom had lay-offs one month after hitting the market.

TERA had server mergers and lay-offs in the west just a couple months after release in the west.

Recently Trion had lay-offs.

 

Blizzard also had lay-offs earlier 2012.

 

 

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

1/12/13 12:17:19 PM#96

It's still selling on par with an expansion to an 8 year old game (data for the week up to 5th Jan).

http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=110022

Which is... great, I guess?

It's missing on vgchartz weekly for the same period, while it was there the week before (below MoP, it's only competitor on these charts). Dunno why, must be some mistake.

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41280/Global/

As far as sales go, it's definitely a success. Is that what the question was?

http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3177

I actually still like MMORPGs

1/12/13 12:17:23 PM#97
Servers still full when I log in, so ya I'd say its a success.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 3177

I actually still like MMORPGs

1/12/13 12:18:17 PM#98
Originally posted by dimnikar

It's still selling on par with an expansion to an 8 year old game (data for the week up to 5th Jan).

http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=110022

Which is... great, I guess?

It's missing on vgchartz weekly for the same period, while it was there the week before (below MoP, it's only competitor on these charts). Dunno why, must be some mistake.

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41280/Global/

As far as sales go, it's definitely a success. Is that what the question was?

Being on par with WoW is definitely a success lol. Not sure why the age of WoW would matter. That game is still huge compared to every other western MMO.

  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

1/12/13 12:19:41 PM#99
OP, you come across as a very needy individual. 


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  dinos_21

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 192

1/12/13 12:23:31 PM#100
Originally posted by DamonVile
You don't understand....people here think if a game isn't right for them it's a failure and the devs did it all wrong. It doesn't matter that they made millions and it was a massive financial success....the game should have been made for just them.

after all these years of reading tis forums , at last ! somebody who spoke the truth and understands the spirit around here...i though i was the only one :P

Tormented echoes of a fallen Eden
I longed for her beauty
Yet from dust, she returned
The dream, an enigma.... silent

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