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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » would you play an mmo that you couldn't win?

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26 posts found
  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3103

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  1/08/13 10:31:02 PM#1

Every mmo (at least that I've played) has gradually progressing content difficulty matched with gradually progressing gear/stat/ability making the content approximately the same sort of actual difficulty.  The PvE balance means that you have to be "roughly this good of a player" to be able to conquer the content. Raids or dungeons may push the envelope a bit, but they still have a designed mechanic on how to solve them.

 

What if the game (basic description only) had a series of checkpoints, that you progressed through with the content continually getting more difficult as you went along, until finally it was so extremely hard that people couldn't possibly finish.  So rather than completing content, it was more about how far you could push the content, but nobody ever reaches the "end". 

If the

 

So what do you think?

 

EDIT: I guess I should have done a better job explaining it. Think of it like a high jump. You might always be able to jump a little higher, so you never reach that point of completion, but every time you improve on where you made it to last time you still get a feeling of accomplishment.

 

EDIT EDIT:  Here is a better description of what I was thinking about.

 

The game plays like a warzone between NPC's and players. the more players join the map, the stronger the NPC's also get.

Anytime a player or NPC dies, they respawn immediately at their base and have to run back to the battle.

The NPC's are trying to take over the players base, and if left alone they will take over the entire map up to virtually the doorstep of the playerbase before being too spread out be effective at conquering the playerbase.

The players work from checkpoint to checkpoint, pushing back the NPC's in an attempt to drive them back to their base and take over. 

 As they get closer to the base the NPC respawn is virtually constant, and the base becomes impossible to take over. 

However, I think reaching the base would be a failed mechanic, and the battle should be a remarkable endeavor to make it 3/4 or even 1/2 way.

Would you play a game you couldn't conquer?

yes. I love challenge and would enjoy pushing limits.
No, I need to be the mighty victor
Due to the depth of the question, I find the variables to great to commit to a position.
(login to vote)

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

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  rojoArcueid

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5825

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

1/08/13 10:44:12 PM#2
i wouldnt buy it. MMO or single player, im a casual so if the game is designed to never being beaten then why even bother. I mean, MMORPGs should never being beaten, but not because the bosses are impossible to be killed. They should be horribly hard , with a workaround to beat it. Even better if they are so hard that you need to use your environment to your advantage, not just tank and spank.

  Luckshmi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/05/12
Posts: 73

1/08/13 10:58:56 PM#3

Same sentiments with the good sir above me.

 

 

As long as I enjoy it and it keeps me busy, well why not.

I never really focused on beating the game, esp if its MMO, Im more of a casual player.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3103

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  1/08/13 11:03:59 PM#4
EDIT: added it to the original post.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

1/08/13 11:44:33 PM#5

I don't remember ever winning an MMO.

( let me clarify that - I generally play solo, so in almost every game, there are dungeons or raids aimed at teams that are beyond me, until some later date when I can outlevel them; so every game out there already feels like what you are suggesting to me ... and I have to admit I prefer it that way )

  Greyface

Novice Member

Joined: 5/23/04
Posts: 388

1/09/13 1:30:13 PM#6
Originally posted by eyelolled

What if the game (basic description only) had a series of checkpoints, that you progressed through with the content continually getting more difficult as you went along, until finally it was so extremely hard that people couldn't possibly finish.  So rather than completing content, it was more about how far you could push the content, but nobody ever reaches the "end". 

You just described what it's like to be a raid leader in a social guild. 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20659

1/09/13 1:40:54 PM#7

I am already playing such a game ... D3 (not a MMO).

Unless you are like a top 1% player in the game, MP10 farming (and uber boss) is just impossible. And i keep pushing my MP level for more challenge every time i play. That includes getting new gear, and tweaking builds.

 

  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

1/09/13 1:44:06 PM#8
Originally posted by eyelolled

Every mmo (at least that I've played) has gradually progressing content difficulty matched with gradually progressing gear/stat/ability making the content approximately the same sort of actual difficulty.  The PvE balance means that you have to be "roughly this good of a player" to be able to conquer the content. Raids or dungeons may push the envelope a bit, but they still have a designed mechanic on how to solve them.

 

What if the game (basic description only) had a series of checkpoints, that you progressed through with the content continually getting more difficult as you went along, until finally it was so extremely hard that people couldn't possibly finish.  So rather than completing content, it was more about how far you could push the content, but nobody ever reaches the "end". 

 

So what do you think?

 

EDIT: I guess I should have done a better job explaining it. Think of it like a high jump. You might always be able to jump a little higher, so you never reach that point of completion, but every time you improve on where you made it to last time you still get a feeling of accomplishment.

 

Tldr: like space invaders


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3103

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  1/09/13 9:07:31 PM#9

improved the original description

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2682

1/09/13 9:27:16 PM#10
If its fun, sure.  Ive had a lot more fun losing at Pandemic  than I had fun at winning a bunch of other games.

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  Goatgod76

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/06
Posts: 1226

1/09/13 10:19:07 PM#11

I voted yes because honestly I feel that is the way they were intended. EQ was called EVERquest for a reason. It has like 23+ expansions and is still adding content  a decade+ later. They are suppose to be nearly never ending adventures.

People want something they can win...there is another genre for that I need not name.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12406

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/09/13 11:35:35 PM#12
Originally posted by eyelolled

Every mmo (at least that I've played) has gradually progressing content difficulty matched with gradually progressing gear/stat/ability making the content approximately the same sort of actual difficulty.  The PvE balance means that you have to be "roughly this good of a player" to be able to conquer the content. Raids or dungeons may push the envelope a bit, but they still have a designed mechanic on how to solve them.

 

What if the game (basic description only) had a series of checkpoints, that you progressed through with the content continually getting more difficult as you went along, until finally it was so extremely hard that people couldn't possibly finish.  So rather than completing content, it was more about how far you could push the content, but nobody ever reaches the "end". 

If the

 

So what do you think?

 

EDIT: I guess I should have done a better job explaining it. Think of it like a high jump. You might always be able to jump a little higher, so you never reach that point of completion, but every time you improve on where you made it to last time you still get a feeling of accomplishment.

 

EDIT EDIT:  Here is a better description of what I was thinking about.

 

The game plays like a warzone between NPC's and players. the more players join the map, the stronger the NPC's also get.

Anytime a player or NPC dies, they respawn immediately at their base and have to run back to the battle.

The NPC's are trying to take over the players base, and if left alone they will take over the entire map up to virtually the doorstep of the playerbase before being too spread out be effective at conquering the playerbase.

The players work from checkpoint to checkpoint, pushing back the NPC's in an attempt to drive them back to their base and take over. 

 As they get closer to the base the NPC respawn is virtually constant, and the base becomes impossible to take over. 

However, I think reaching the base would be a failed mechanic, and the battle should be a remarkable endeavor to make it 3/4 or even 1/2 way.

I wouldn't play an MMO that you could win. And what you describe up there, I wouldn't play that whether I could win or not because it reads as a monotonous grind of kill x to kill 2x to kill 3x etc with no actual point outside of seeing how far you could go.

 

It's space invaders with a subscription fee.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Ortwig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1082

1/10/13 12:16:29 AM#13
I don't play MMOs to "win."
  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1831

1/10/13 12:42:32 AM#14

There was an MMO, I don't remember the name but you had an Island and you were given time to establish a strategy on how you wanted to build it up and fortify, make conquering elements. In short time you were exposed to the rest of the player base and you all duked it out for a spot on a leader board. In 3 months the whole thing reset. You couldn't "win" per say, you repeated the same 3 month cycle and built a leader board stat by figuring effective strategies.

The game failed.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3103

I am more than some of my parts

 
OP  1/10/13 12:45:33 AM#15
Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

I wouldn't play an MMO that you could win. And what you describe up there, I wouldn't play that whether I could win or not because it reads as a monotonous grind of kill x to kill 2x to kill 3x etc with no actual point outside of seeing how far you could go.

 

It's space invaders with a subscription fee.

Sorry, I never implied there would be a subscription fee. I was just curious about how people would respond if the ultimate goal was unobtainable.  Of course there could be a lot more dynamics and such involved.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Juiceman

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 163

1/10/13 12:58:43 AM#16
If you made the game nearly impossible, or a boss or two nearly impossible, I'd play it, even if i lost to said boss 100s of times.  It would also be hard to get to that point.  When u did get there you would find out you're still striving to be the best, and your not even close.  After a year or so, if it was really impossible, people playing would start to notice.  Also, if it was impossible to win, I don't think I'd want to know about it from the get go.  Didn't EQ have a boss kinda like this? some bad ass dragon or something then some guild Fiiiinallly killed it?  Endless dungeon on torchlight is sorta like that too.  Also, kid who mentioned Diablo3 is right, there is no OP anymore, farming mp5+ gets ridiculous and u start to loose speed, efficiency.  If theres a character out there with good enough gear to speed farm mp7-10 Alk runs or similar, i want to see his setup :).
  Gorwe

Elite Member

Joined: 9/16/11
Posts: 1985

1/10/13 7:59:00 AM#17
Nah, I wouldn't. And I don't play MMOs for the "winning" Aspect either. I just want a game where I can be an armoursmith and never have to kill something(think SWG). For example. You can't win there either, but instead of your, frankly, nonsensical way of doing it-you have character ties and the feeling of being important(ironically even more so than if you downed the final boss in some of today's MMOs->Blacksmith > Slayer lol!).
  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

1/10/13 8:07:30 AM#18

If the battleground was the only thing in the game, then no.  It's too narrow to keep my interest.

 

On the other side, it sounds like it would be a fun mini-game for embedding into a larger world MMORPG.  Especially if there was decent progression to be had in the battle.  One plus is that it's massively multiplayer, almost like a giant raid group.  Given how little activity in MMORPGs still is massively multiplayer, this is a big plus for me.

 

In a way it also sounds like it could be adapted for PVP, sort of a zerg-ish RVR bg.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2365

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

1/10/13 10:11:15 AM#19
Sure.  I grew up with arcade games that could never be beaten.  It was fun regardless, just seeing how far you can get before your ultimate demise.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  L0C0Man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/30/09
Posts: 960

1/10/13 10:20:40 AM#20

I love MMOs but because of time constrains, I rarely do dungeons and almost never raid if it's available, so technically I'm always playing games that I couldn't win.

That said, the game style described by the op I wouldn't play, not because I couldn't win, but because to be frank, the game design sounds a little boring and repetitive to me, though I know that basically it's what most online FPSs and MOBA games are all about.

What can men do against such reckless hate?

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