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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » I wish this game could transform

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96 posts found
  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  1/11/13 4:44:49 PM#61
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by ignore_me
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by ignore_me

Because of the nature of licensing agreements, the world is stuck with this Star Wars MMO for who knows how long. I find myself longing for a Star Wars game, but SWTOR is unplayable to me. If only the crew at EAware had the technical skill.

 

-I wish the engine could be adapted so that the game would operate like contemporary MMOs.

-I wish that new explorable, dynamic (night/day, weather, randomized mobs, varied loot tables) planets would be added that are considered outside of the original storyline, and were there for player adventures.

-I wish that the crafting would open up and be 10 times as complicated and varied.

-I wish that A full 3d space game with varied ships could be added and used to travel between the worlds.

-I wish that they had the ability to add mini-games

-I wish that they could allow players to change the world in some way, to make a mark and achieve something other than completed Karagga' s on NM mode.

 

SWTOR is the sequel to the KoToR series and made by Bioware. So people shouldn't have expected any different from Bioware than a game with a main story, side missions, voice overs, and light/dark side dialogue options.

However, I'm sorry to see they dropped the ball with everything else. Way too many side quests, an imbalanced side quest to class quest ratio. They also homogenized the classes, nothing like classes were in KoToR. Also, classes in KoToR felt powerful as they grew in the force, whereas classes in SWTOR feel rather weak comparitively. 

No I'm sorry. When they said things like "new evolution in MMORPG games," that deprived you of the expectation argument. Also considering that SWTOR came after a much more detailed SW IP game, the discrepancy between the two became in itself a problem.

KoToR at least had the D20 system and meaningful choices concerning light side and dark side. SWTOR does none of this. I think if it would have been a KoToR MMO I would have been happier with it.

You do know what the words "evolution" and "new" means, correct? If SWTOR is anything, it is an evolved MMORPG from the traditional themepark, due to its fully voiced over quests, with the ability to choose dialogue options in both solo and group settings. A lot of the times your choices don't matter, but sometimes they do, and they do in your class story. I don't recall your choices really mattering in side quests in KOTOR either. SWG and SWTOR is apples and oranges, you can't compare the two and that's coming from someone who loved SWG. 

It was a bait and switch. The customer righlty assumed full MMO + fully voiced cutscenes. The company produced 1/4 th of an MMO + cutscenes.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  1/11/13 4:52:12 PM#62
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by ignore_me
 

Also considering that SWTOR came after a much more detailed SW IP game, the discrepancy between the two became in itself a problem.

Only with players that were still  hooked on that game. The rest of us had moved on since 2005. And the gaming population who had never even played SWG could have cared less.  Many of them were telling the SWG fanatics to go away and stop trying to turn the game into somethig it isn't. 

 

How many players who played SWTOR had played SWG at some point in its lifespan? How many Played WoW? How many played AoC? etc. etc. Against any of its possible peers SWTOR was threadbare. How many of the 1.5 million who left the game at least told their friends how this game failed to be on par with other games because they left out the essentials?

Add to this that there was a previous SW game and it was feature and systems rich and that comparison is inevitable.

I have said myself that comparing the two games is not appropriate.

My point is that the comparison was made, and people let it be known. I never heard anyone in general chat say, "stop telling me about what systems and features you had in SWG." When SWG players told SWTOR players what you could do in that game, they would invariably say, "wish you could do that in this game."

 

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 2116

1/11/13 5:18:38 PM#63

"Voiced dialogue isn't new or an evolution mmo's had it before swtor...what it actually was..was a gimmick."

 

Ok name one other MMO that have the sort of dialogue that you find in SWTOR.

 

Any way, all i can say is that i got the game at release and i really liked it. But then again i am not a PvP player nor did i ever care much for X-Wing vs Tiefighter so i was the target consumer for this game. Now with the F2P option i am liking it even more....(apart from that silly thing that i can not hide my head item... But that is a minor issue and one that is easy to fix. ) and to be honest if someone brought SWG back from the dead i would not touch it with a 10 foot pole... It was a buggy mess that people macroed to oblivion and there was never any support for entertainer/tailor/Image Designer and this did in essence render them pointless as everybody had a dance mule and a IDMule and outside of the crafting mats for other proffesions the Tailor prof was utterly useless. 

 

Yes i am a bit bitter as the devs of SWG was even better then the BW devs at making promises they never followd up on.

 

With SWTOR i at least know what i get. With SWG my playstyle never saw even a third of all the stuff we were todl we would get.

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4152

Trolls will be ignored

1/11/13 5:38:46 PM#64
Originally posted by nukempro
 

Voiced dialogue isn't new or an evolution mmo's had it before swtor...what it actually was..was a gimmick.

It wasn't just the voice dialogue. It was also true interaction between your character and the quest givers along with dialogue choices. I haven't played every MMO in existence, but out of the ones I had played, none of them offered the same experience. 

The plan worked pretty well too...draw people in with false promises and hyped up "story"...then deliver content and mechanics that copy wow but are a step down.

I've played WOW and TOR is nothing like it. The above mentioned features alone make it an entirely different game. 

While at the same time just barely delivering the promised "story driven expierience". Personally the story didn't pull me in at all and I found it to be rather bland.

To each his own. I personally think they're  leaps and bounds above the boring text quests that games like WOW offered. It made leveling in the game so much more fun . In fact one of the biggest criticisms I read about the new WOW expansion is their quest system is still stuck in the past. Games like TOR, TSW and GW2 have made it more diffficult for players to go back to the old days of long boring text. 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/11/13 5:43:07 PM#65
Originally posted by tawess

"Voiced dialogue isn't new or an evolution mmo's had it before swtor...what it actually was..was a gimmick."

 

Ok name one other MMO that have the sort of dialogue that you find in SWTOR.

 

Any way, all i can say is that i got the game at release and i really liked it. But then again i am not a PvP player nor did i ever care much for X-Wing vs Tiefighter so i was the target consumer for this game. Now with the F2P option i am liking it even more....(apart from that silly thing that i can not hide my head item... But that is a minor issue and one that is easy to fix. ) and to be honest if someone brought SWG back from the dead i would not touch it with a 10 foot pole... It was a buggy mess that people macroed to oblivion and there was never any support for entertainer/tailor/Image Designer and this did in essence render them pointless as everybody had a dance mule and a IDMule and outside of the crafting mats for other proffesions the Tailor prof was utterly useless. 

 

Yes i am a bit bitter as the devs of SWG was even better then the BW devs at making promises they never followd up on.

 

With SWTOR i at least know what i get. With SWG my playstyle never saw even a third of all the stuff we were todl we would get.

A lot of MMOs had voiced dialogue, even SWG, but STO does it exactly like SWTOR.

It really does not make a MMO and when people are in cutscene voice dialgue mode, they are tuned out of the game like a zombie. I doubt anty future MMOs will include voice dialogue like SWTOR again.

Playing Dragon Age again after this, just feels the same, and gets the same kind of enjoyment as SWTOR, but with SWTOR it is either $15 per month, or a crippled game with F2P restrictions. Mass Effect 3 was start of single player game with multiplayer options, and no monthly fee either, and that is the type of game they should focus on and enhance, than take cutscenes into MMOs, as it does not work so well overall.

SWG and SWTOR are totally different games, but I was lucky, as whatever SWG did, I liked and was just addicted to it, and did not care for the buggy mess. SWG was easier to get social in and be played as a MMO instead of like a single player game like SWTOR

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4152

Trolls will be ignored

1/11/13 5:53:14 PM#66
Originally posted by superniceguy
 

A lot of MMOs had voiced dialogue, even SWG, but STO does it exactly like SWTOR.

What in the world are you smoking? STO 's voiced dialogue is NOTHING like TOR.  Your character doesn't speak, you can't interact with  the NPC and you don't have a choice in any part of the conversation.You just sit and listen to them ramble. Plus the characters that are voiced in that game are few and far between. 

 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  1/11/13 5:58:53 PM#67
Any realistic ideas on what they should/could do? Especially from anyone who knows the technical side? (excepting of course the solution they have chosen: milk F2P, keep communication one-directional, etc.)

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/11/13 6:06:52 PM#68
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by superniceguy
 

A lot of MMOs had voiced dialogue, even SWG, but STO does it exactly like SWTOR.

What in the world are you smoking? STO 's voiced dialogue is NOTHING like TOR.  Your character doesn't speak, you can't interact with  the NPC and you don't have a choice in any part of the conversation.You just sit and listen to them ramble. Plus the characters that are voiced in that game are few and far between. 

 

 

STO does have cut scenes and has voice dialague in them, that is what was being discussed, but typically you come on make it more precise. In one of the earlky missions you are escortimng an ambassodr and he ends up turning out to be a changeling, laughs at you changes into a klingon and you run after him.

Nothing is going to be EXACTLY the same as SWTOR is Biowares way of doing things, with choices, but with the new Season 7 when you land on new Romulan your character does actually speak to the NPC in the cutscene. The diallogue choices and interaction comes afterwards.

It is good that STO does not have it in abundance, as SWTORs constant use of it in a MMO when playing with others gets old. When it happens in STO, it is a welcome distratction

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4152

Trolls will be ignored

1/11/13 6:35:02 PM#69
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by superniceguy
 

A lot of MMOs had voiced dialogue, even SWG, but STO does it exactly like SWTOR.

What in the world are you smoking? STO 's voiced dialogue is NOTHING like TOR.  Your character doesn't speak, you can't interact with  the NPC and you don't have a choice in any part of the conversation.You just sit and listen to them ramble. Plus the characters that are voiced in that game are few and far between. 

 

 

STO does have cut scenes and has voice dialague in them, that is what was being discussed, but typically you come on make it more precise.

When you say that something is exactly like something else then that is an attempt to be precise.  It's not even a case of splitting hairs, this is a case of you trying to say an apple and an orange are the same just because they're both fruits. Anyone that has played both games would see that statement in the same light I did and yes I will call you on it every time. 

n one of the earlky missions you are escortimng an ambassodr and he ends up turning out to be a changeling, laughs at you changes into a klingon and you run after him.

I'm aware of that mission and I see little similiarities between it and TOR. A change happens when you're out in the field. Big deal. That doesn't make it's dialogue experience the same as TOR's. I will say that STO's missions are light years better than that crap WOW produces. 

Nothing is going to be EXACTLY the same as SWTOR is Biowares way of doing things, with choices, but with the new Season 7 when you land on new Romulan your character does actually speak to the NPC in the cutscene. The diallogue choices and interaction comes afterwards.

That's good to hear. But this is a change that came years after STO's release. TOR had it in the very beginning. I am glad to see more of that being added to new releases as I can't go back to the old text questing after experiencing TOR. 

It is good that STO does not have it in abundance, as SWTORs constant use of it in a MMO when playing with others gets old. When it happens in STO, it is a welcome distratction

I agree they went overboard with it in TOR. They should have left it to class and world missions. The side quests could have went to the terminals. Or maybe even take all those side quests and integrate them with the class stories. 

 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/11/13 9:50:10 PM#70
Originally posted by ObiClownobi
Originally posted by simplius
 

please,,sandbox only works in smaller mmo

 

Yet EvE has 50,000 concurrent players in one linked universe and most themeparks have servers of 2-5k linked only by 20 person instances from cross server LFG. How does that work again?

so,,are the 50k players in the same zone?? ive seen EVE PVP videos with max 1500 players

yes ,,thats still A LOT more than normal mmo, but apparently EVE was almost unplayable at that stage

and the size was referring to the overall playerbase

i know EVE is one of the best mmos on the market,,and the sandbox format keeps it locked in at 400-500k players

NOT going big ,,like wow,,or aion,,even STO,,with its buggy launch was a competion to EVE

i wouldnt be surprised if star citizen doubles EVE numbers ,,perhaps even triples them

but keeping them there will be the problem,,EVE is VERY resilient to new invaders

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  1/11/13 10:30:29 PM#71

EVE and STO aside, anyone think they will fix this game? What would that look like?

 

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/12/13 1:09:27 AM#72

i dont think so,,its either too expensive, or they simply dont know how

i started in prelaunch,,as i recall the client was 35 gigs, up to lvl 30 ,and bug free

on release the client was reduced to about 25 gigs , and level cap raised to max

and then the poor performance and the bugs came

every patch since then have fixed one thing , but broken two new others

since the famous 1.4 patch , i could barely log in

normal games improve over time,,this is going the other way

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  1/12/13 1:14:36 AM#73
Originally posted by simplius

i dont think so,,its either too expensive, or they simply dont know how

i started in prelaunch,,as i recall the client was 35 gigs, up to lvl 30 ,and bug free

on release the client was reduced to about 25 gigs , and level cap raised to max

and then the poor performance and the bugs came

every patch since then have fixed one thing , but broken two new others

since the famous 1.4 patch , i could barely log in

normal games improve over time,,this is going the other way

How is this possible? Given the money involved, the fact that these should mostly be industry professionals, this would seem ludicrous.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  simplius

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 979

1/12/13 5:27:33 AM#74

this is completely new territory

bioware had no mmo experience

hero engine is not for normal gameplay ,,its for presentation

so we have a newbie mechanic working on a prototype car,,we know the result

  ktanner3

Master

Joined: 3/19/06
Posts: 4152

Trolls will be ignored

1/12/13 12:07:36 PM#75
Originally posted by ignore_me

EVE and STO aside, anyone think they will fix this game? What would that look like?

 

If by "fix" you mean "change it into SWG" then I highly doubt it. No company is stupid enough to repeat the mistake SOE made in 2005. 

Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/12/13 2:46:24 PM#76
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by ignore_me

EVE and STO aside, anyone think they will fix this game? What would that look like?

 

If by "fix" you mean "change it into SWG" then I highly doubt it. No company is stupid enough to repeat the mistake SOE made in 2005. 

The differemce though is that SWG just needed a bit of polish and updates, not a total rewrite. SWG was not THAT bad until the CU and especially the NGE happened, but SWTOR is THAT bad. The base game is OK, but the EA/BW just do not seem to be wanting to be doing much with SWTOR to advance it. It is what it is, and looks like it will be like what it is for the time it is active.

SWTOR is lacking so much, it could easily get instanced housing like LOTRO and beast master like EQ2/WOW and many other MMOs, for starters. Housing could be on a space station, and can travel there by your ship. Beast Master could possibly use same game mechanics as companions, and no need for story considering they do not talk! Some kind of mission terminals could be added too, STO has this in the way of daily patrols, and searching anomlies, City of Heros had this in the way of newspaper/radio/tips. Maybe they could have a mission creator system, which STO has as the foundry, CoH had as the architect system, EQ2 has Dungeon Maker.

Plenty of things that can be added to make the game worth that $15, things that not only SWG had, but other MMOs have too. No need to change the game, just add it.

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

 
OP  1/12/13 2:49:42 PM#77
Originally posted by ktanner3
Originally posted by ignore_me

EVE and STO aside, anyone think they will fix this game? What would that look like?

 

If by "fix" you mean "change it into SWG" then I highly doubt it. No company is stupid enough to repeat the mistake SOE made in 2005. 

I mean make it palatable to everyone else besides you and your five friends on the game. I was looking for some more constructive feedback.

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  WalterWhite

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 408

It's time to cook.

1/12/13 2:58:07 PM#78
I read the title and immediately I thought about alchemy and then I realised that you cannot turn sh!t into gold.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 2116

1/12/13 3:13:38 PM#79

actually SWG was in such a dire need of a rewrite it got two... First the CU to fix some of the most glaring problems with their class system... And when that did not do enough you had the NGE (it may have sucked the soul out of the game but balance wise it was miles better).

 

Ofc i personally did not like the NGE as it pretty much killed my playstyle (ID/Tailor and a entertainer alt) but seeing all the stupid crap people did in the name of combat score i can understand why they did it.

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  n00bit

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/05
Posts: 353

1/12/13 3:16:44 PM#80

ignore_me casts Limited Wish

SWTOR becomes SWG post-NGE

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