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  User Deleted
 
OP  1/08/13 6:51:17 AM#1

Been thinking lately about why I tend to dislike open world PvP games. In pretty much every one of these games I have encountered childish players who rush to max level / power and then use that to grief new players or characters. 

With some of the games coming out like Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars there are some consequence systems in place to supposedly prevent this kind of behaviour, but honestly I just dont think they go far enough.

I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

Definitely goes hand in hand with the death penalty given to murderers. Real incentive to limit the amount of players who are happy to grief due to a lack of consequence in these games.  A system like that would personally make me quite happy to have open PvP, because I know that while the danger is there that someone is willing to commit murder, there wont be cowardly attacks on new players for no reason. And would add a bit of lawful vs unlawful conflict for players interested in playing the villian or the hero.

So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3071

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/08/13 6:52:28 AM#2

Nothing. PvP is not my bag.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12112

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

1/08/13 6:56:00 AM#3
Originally posted by evilastro

Been thinking lately about why I tend to dislike open world PvP games. In pretty much every one of these games I have encountered childish players who rush to max level / power and then use that to grief new players or characters. 

With some of the games coming out like Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars there are some consequence systems in place to supposedly prevent this kind of behaviour, but honestly I just dont think they go far enough.

I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

Definitely goes hand in hand with the death penalty given to murderers. Real incentive to limit the amount of players who are happy to grief due to a lack of consequence in these games.  A system like that would personally make me quite happy to have open PvP, because I know that while the danger is there that someone is willing to commit murder, there wont be cowardly attacks on new players for no reason. And would add a bit of lawful vs unlawful conflict for players interested in playing the villian or the hero.

So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

Basically, you either want an MMO where the open world PVP is completely meaningless or you want open world PVP where the PVP means something but is completely negated by massive loopholes you've just created in the system.

You don't like a system, so you want to break it to hell and back for everyone else rather than just play a game that doesn't have it.

 

"So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?"

Very little. If a person is not a fan of a mechanic, it makes more sense to send them on their way and center changes around those who do like and use the mechanic than to water it down and ruin it to try to accommodate those who probably still won't take part in it anyway even after their every last unreasonable request was fulfilled.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fovoroth

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1531

1/08/13 7:02:59 AM#4

consequences for being a jerk is all it takes for me.   on the pve / pvp scale i'm a little skewed towards pve... maybe 55 / 45... but the only two open pvp games i've played that i was able to stick around longer than a year were eve and L2.  you NEED those sanctions in place *by the game* in order to not have the game devolve into a murderfest.  if i want to play murderfest i'll play an FPS or play league of legends.

 

peopple who disagree will say that "the playerbase should form the police, as opposed to NPCs" which in theory is good; however it never pans out.  Witness my (and many others') main problem with darkfall.

RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

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  apocoluster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1295

\m/,

1/08/13 7:31:58 AM#5
  Finding a PvP system where Im the best and everyone else sucks but for some reason keeps playing while I pwn them, so I can continue to have fun at their expense.  Do I realisticly ever expect to see this game..No.

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  Stuka1000

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 788

1/08/13 7:40:23 AM#6
Originally posted by evilastro

Been thinking lately about why I tend to dislike open world PvP games. In pretty much every one of these games I have encountered childish players who rush to max level / power and then use that to grief new players or characters. 

With some of the games coming out like Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars there are some consequence systems in place to supposedly prevent this kind of behaviour, but honestly I just dont think they go far enough.

I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

Definitely goes hand in hand with the death penalty given to murderers. Real incentive to limit the amount of players who are happy to grief due to a lack of consequence in these games.  A system like that would personally make me quite happy to have open PvP, because I know that while the danger is there that someone is willing to commit murder, there wont be cowardly attacks on new players for no reason. And would add a bit of lawful vs unlawful conflict for players interested in playing the villian or the hero.

So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

 Bounty systems are wide open to abuse.  One player runs up a huge bounty on himself, gets a friend to kill him and then they split the money.  i do however agree with the intent.  Open PvP MMO's like DF will never be anything other than small niche games as a direct result of the griefers you mention. 

  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1260

1/08/13 7:41:19 AM#7

World PvP has never been done correctly. Games, especially these days, refuse to take the time and spend the resources on noteworthy PvP. It's all about being quick - the reason why we end up with such simplistic Battlegrounds, Warzones, and Arenas.

 

If I was in charge, this is how I would structure my World PvP.

#1. Mostly Faction-based PvP

  • Several factions that fight over the resources of the world.
  • If a player wishes for the ability to attack anyone, then he can go "rogue" and leave their current faction. Doing so would mean that he is on the "exile list" -  attackable by the city guards etc.
#2. PvP can happen anywhere...even in the main starting city. However, an enemy sneaking into one of the starting cities will find it to be very tricky, as high-level guards will be patrolling. Moreover, players can sound city-wide alarms if they spot an enemy within their city.
 
#3. Semi-loot PvP. If you kill an enemy player, you are able to take whatever gold is on him (not his bank). This is why it's important to bank your gold. Moreover, you can loot anything in his bags that are not equipped or "soul-bound".
 
#4. Player Bounty Hunter Terminals: If a high level player ganks a few lowbies (unless they attack him first), then he will be placed on the Bounty Terminals. Anyone that is a member of the vicim's faction can accept the Bounty Mission. If you find the accused and kill him, he will be unable to play that character for 1 week.
 
#5. No instances. This is a gigantic World Server. Vanguard would look like SWTOR compared to this.
 
#6. Since there is so much land in the world, factions can secure large chunks of it, so long as they have enough player-made castles, walls, houses, and forts. Enemy clans can destroy these structures, but it is very time consuming and difficult.
  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1260

1/08/13 7:42:17 AM#8
Originally posted by eric1000
Originally posted by evilastro

Been thinking lately about why I tend to dislike open world PvP games. In pretty much every one of these games I have encountered childish players who rush to max level / power and then use that to grief new players or characters. 

With some of the games coming out like Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars there are some consequence systems in place to supposedly prevent this kind of behaviour, but honestly I just dont think they go far enough.

I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

Definitely goes hand in hand with the death penalty given to murderers. Real incentive to limit the amount of players who are happy to grief due to a lack of consequence in these games.  A system like that would personally make me quite happy to have open PvP, because I know that while the danger is there that someone is willing to commit murder, there wont be cowardly attacks on new players for no reason. And would add a bit of lawful vs unlawful conflict for players interested in playing the villian or the hero.

So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

 Bounty systems are wide open to abuse.  One player runs up a huge bounty on himself, gets a friend to kill him and then they split the money.  i do however agree with the intent.  Open PvP MMO's like DF will never be anything other than small niche games as a direct result of the griefers you mention. 

I never understood why people shun player bounties. There are so many ways it can work.

Like I stated in the above post, if a high level player continues to gank lowbies, then he or she will automatically be placed on The Player Bounty Boards. Anyone from the victim's faction can accept the mission. If the accused dies, then that player will be unable to play his character for a 5-7 days.

You are probably thinking, "What kind of reward is that?" Heh. It's a reward that will certainly work. While the hunter may not get anything of value, the thrill of the hunt and the fact that knowing how angry the ganker will be when he finds out that he cannot play his character for another week is intoxicating to many PvP fans.

If people feel that they need to be rewarded with more, then a "bounty collect history" or "hall of fame" can be thrown in - a way to earn titles or aesthetic items.

 

Player Bounties can work. People are just too lazy to do 'em...

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5124

1/08/13 7:47:03 AM#9

Major consequences for griefing must be a major part to make sure the integrity and longevity of an open world PvP game persists. Otherwise a small group of players basically throws off the balance of the entire server which results in many players leaving, and then even the small group leaves as there's nobody left to grief - end result dead game.

 

  steelheartx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 399

1/08/13 7:48:38 AM#10
Nothing, i have no patience for non-consentual PvP.

Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at www.grievanceguild.com !

  Scarfe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 287

1/08/13 7:49:10 AM#11
Being able to flag my PVP on or off in all honesty is the only way I would play one.  Getting ganked while at 20% health from questing is not and will never be my idea of fun, and losing three days worth of equipment as a result will have me reaching straight for the uninstall button, regardless of the repurcussions for the ganker. 

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  dinams

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 1403

1/08/13 7:49:52 AM#12

No rewards for jerks, only consequences

 

Oh wait this already happens on wushu

"It has potential"
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  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1260

1/08/13 7:52:12 AM#13
Originally posted by steelheartx
Nothing, i have no patience for non-consentual PvP.

I have no attention spam for consensual-redundant PvP.

  Scarfe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 287

1/08/13 7:54:39 AM#14
Originally posted by mmoDAD
Originally posted by steelheartx
Nothing, i have no patience for non-consentual PvP.

I have no attention spam for consensual-redundant PvP.

I don't know, there is a reason why boxing, professional wrestling etc get a huge audience, and punching someone in the face in the street gets a court appearance. 

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  Caldrin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4113

1/08/13 7:55:12 AM#15

I love open world full loot PVP games with no restrictions..

 

Killing other people for no reason of course should have consequences, maybe a combination of a flagging system, bounty system and guard patrols or somthing would work good..

 

Still its a complex issue :)

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  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1289

1/08/13 7:58:26 AM#16

EVE does OW PvP right. Its high/low/null-sec system does a good job at protecting newbies, but offers those who want to PvP a chance to do so.

It also has plenty of other things to do. The problem with many OW PvP games is that they're just that - OW PvP games. They're inferior to other games when it comes to PvE, crafting, peaceful player interactions, etc. They're more like battlegrounds than well-rounded games.

Faction-based PvP is also quite nice. I liked the way it was handled in Anarchy Online.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1133

1/08/13 8:01:04 AM#17

If another player has the freedom to kill me anytime, anywhere, repeatedly...

then I want the ability to own land, have a law forbidding anyone attacking another on it, the ability to have guards capture said killer, a jail to put them in, and the ability to repeatedly NOT let them out.

Freedom to play how I want and player justice too!

But that is what FFA OW PvP'ers want right?

  apocoluster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1295

\m/,

1/08/13 8:03:53 AM#18
Originally posted by Scarfe
Originally posted by mmoDAD
Originally posted by steelheartx
Nothing, i have no patience for non-consentual PvP.

I have no attention spam for consensual-redundant PvP.

I don't know, there is a reason why boxing, mixed Martial Arts etc get a huge audience, and punching someone in the face in the street gets a court appearance. 

FIxed that for you  lol  Pro wrestling is fake :)

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  BeansnBread

Elite Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5547

1/08/13 8:04:33 AM#19

EVE has been the only game that I've played that did open world PvP in a way that was fun for me. Rare and expensive resources in the most dangerous areas. Safe areas (still not completely safe) for noobs. Loss of ship, cargo and equipped items. The incredibly amazing regional economy. It's really the way the whole system works together that made me keep playing for over 2 years.

 

It just doesn't translate as easily to a ground game though. If someone could translate it, I'd be all over it. Sometimes I wonder why I'm still not playing the game.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1260

1/08/13 8:04:49 AM#20
Originally posted by Scarfe
Originally posted by mmoDAD
Originally posted by steelheartx
Nothing, i have no patience for non-consentual PvP.

I have no attention spam for consensual-redundant PvP.

I don't know, there is a reason why boxing, professional wrestling etc get a huge audience, and punching someone in the face in the street gets a court appearance. 

That is a terrible comparison and you know it.

 

Instanced PvP is terrible. After the first month, the best strategies are leaned by all. Thus, the game becomes a constant rinse and repeat borefest.

There is no element of surprise. PvP is expected.

Too be honest, if rewards were removed from Battlegrounds, very few would play them. In fact, they would probably die.

 

I'd have no problem with Instanced PvP if they just kept it off the PvP-labeled servers. But that's not the case. Because of the item-reward incentive, it screws everything up.

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